For the "Brady made Belichick" crowd

[upstater1]

1. Some of the replies in this thread have already proven you wrong.

2. It HAS been tried but the coaches/GMs are not Belichick and that is why those attempts have failed.

Who has tried it? I'm talking about the offense.

 

[Triumph]

Jimmy would not have been better than Brady with the same supporting cast. On the other end, if Brady was the QB of the 49ers last Super Bowl, the 49ers would have won!

Noooo

Brady sucks. He freeloaded off BB to the tune of 9 Super Bowls. The winning 6 Lombardi trophies were all BB and 3 Super Bowl losses on Brady.

Youll see. Brady dont have BB to prop his sorry *** up no more. Good riddance.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

Bill Belichick cracker 118 games without Brady.

He’s 55-63.

@sb1 wants to only count the last 16% of them to make his point. When you have to ignore 84% of the sample size and are arguing “no this is really what we should be looking at” it’s called manipulating numbers to get the result you want. Belichick coached two full Patriots seasons without Brady. He missed the playoffs twice.

Buddy

You really got some stupid going on here.

First off, the "last 16%" is the only area of coaching where the "system du Belichick" was fully in place. As such, it's the only real holistic sample available.

11-5 has only missed the playoffs twice in NFL history..........let that sink in.....if it can.

5-11 in 2000? You might be too young to remember but 1999 was a complete disaster. Lombardi and Knute Rockne would have gone 2-14 with that dumpster fire. That team was so bad ($11M over the cap and no 1st round pick) it's why something like 16 FA's were brought in and some kid from Michigan was kept because it was obvious Bledsoe wasn't getting it done.

Also, the interpretation of what transpired here in Cleveland is clown show interpretation. The team was horrendous when he arrived and within a few rebuild years they made the playoffs. People forget that in the 90's free agency wasn't really a tool for quick rebuilds.

In the final year here, the Browns were a favorite to make the Super Bowl and were on the way to the playoffs when Modell made history. Nobody and nothing could have changed what took place next. Unless you live in this area, it's not possible to truly understand what a debacle that was.

Ozzie Newsome is on record saying that if the move never happened, the Browns would have won a Super Bowl. Multiple is more accurate.

 

[upstater1]

It wasn't "loaded" at all in 2008. The defense was kinda bad.

Brissett shouldn't have played in that Bills game. He went out there and took one for the team since JG couldn't go. That loss has jack squat to do with Belichick.

Maybe Brady ought to have resisted the temptation to make a snarky comment to the Ravens about the rulebook which probably started the chain of events that led to his suspension.

14-6 is 14-6. Clearly Belichick hasn't fallen flat on his face without Brady as some seem to hope happens this year for some bizarre reason.

They were loaded. Wes Welker, Randy Moss, Ben Watson, Kevin Faulk. You can't do better than having those 4.
Look at that offensive line that year: Light, Mankins, Koppen, Neal, Kaczur. This is likely the best OL we've had.
Defenisve backfield had bad injuries but the front 7 was really good. Just look at the roster. Seymour, Ty Warren, and Wilfork were around. Vrabel, Mayo, Adalius, Bruschi, Seau.

How can you say this wasn't loaded? They were 16-0 the previous year against a much much much tougher schedule.

 

[sb1]

Well, we'll soon find out who made whom. I'm afraid I already know the answer, but I am coming around to being interested to watch (rather than just being depressed about it).

EDIT - I am editing my post because I am not being fair to my long-held opinion that BB and TB (with a little of RKK thrown in) made each other. Each was in the right place at the right time when TB came along. During their first year of separation though, I am 100% positive that Brady will look like the winner of the contest. That's because the things he has learned and the experience he has gained can be brought to his new team, whereas BB hasn't found his next TB yet to impart all of his wisdom and good coaching. Our failure to land and/or develop any great receivers or TEs in the last few years is going to hurt us again too this year. This year TB is still built to succeed. BB has to start over.

I don't want to jump to conclusions about this offense yet - we have a QB that can offer very different things that Brady did and so we shouldn't compare his offense to our new guy's. We'll know more on Sunday.

I think it's safe to say Brady will probably have a good year in TB if he stays healthy. Not so much if he had stayed here for another year or two.

 

[upstater1]

I agree - but Mahomes has a good coach, a good supporting cast and an underrated defense. All the pieces are in place for multiple Super Bowl wins.

Mahomes is not going to take less than $40m a year. That team will be gutted soon.

 

[Triumph]

Mahomes > every QB right now. What's your point?

Also Jimmy >>>>> Brady last year

Brady took Mahomes to school in the post season last year with a broken down Gronk, Edelman, White and Dorsett.

Jimmy had to kneel on the ball with 1 minute to Super Bowl halftime show because his HC didnt trust him. Brady would have shot for a TD and at the very least 3 points.

Jimmy is the GQ game manager. Russel Wilson is the best QB in that division and Jimmy can carry his luggage.

 

[TheRainMaker]

This thread = Awesome!

We finally got a BB vs Brady thread. And the back and forth so far is hilarious.

It's going to be epic during the regular season.

 

[sb1]

They were loaded. Wes Welker, Randy Moss, Ben Watson, Kevin Faulk. You can't do better than having those 4.
Look at that offensive line that year: Light, Mankins, Koppen, Neal, Kaczur. This is likely the best OL we've had.
Defenisve backfield had bad injuries but the front 7 was really good. Just look at the roster. Seymour, Ty Warren, and Wilfork were around. Vrabel, Mayo, Adalius, Bruschi, Seau.

How can you say this wasn't loaded? They were 16-0 the previous year against a much much much tougher schedule.

I think they had one of the worse defenses in the league in 08. Benefited from a very easy schedule so their numbers were a lot better than they really were. Those guys were old and slow and were horrific against good teams (something like 30+ points a game allowed to playoff teams on average). Our defense struggled a bit against better offensive teams in 2019 but they weren't THAT bad.

The downgrade at QB hurt a lot, but the downgrade in defense from 07 to 08 hurt more.

 

[1960Pats]

Well, we'll soon find out who made whom. I'm afraid I already know the answer, but I am coming around to being interested to watch (rather than just being depressed about it).

EDIT - I am editing my post because I am not being fair to my long-held opinion that BB and TB (with a little of RKK thrown in) made each other. Each was in the right place at the right time when TB came along. During their first year of separation though, I am 100% positive that Brady will look like the winner of the contest. That's because the things he has learned and the experience he has gained can be brought to his new team, whereas BB hasn't found his next TB yet to impart all of his wisdom and good coaching. Our failure to land and/or develop any great receivers or TEs in the last few years is going to hurt us again too this year. This year TB is still built to succeed. BB has to start over.

It's kind of the reverse of how it was when Brady first arrived, when Bill was experienced and Tom was just starting.

One of the posters here said it best. If Brady and Bill won 6 together, then Brady and Bill alone would win 2 each.

Brady also had a great POV on the subject. Bill can't do Tom's job and Tom can't do his.

After watching a Brady interview, a Gronk interview and their video together, I'm starting to think I'm not going to handle the change as well as I had hoped.

 

[sb1]

Brady took Mahomes to school in the post season last year with a broken down Gronk, Edelman, White and Dorsett.

Jimmy had to kneel on the ball with 1 minute to Super Bowl halftime show because his HC didnt trust him. Brady would have shot for a TD and at the very least 3 points.

Jimmy is the GQ game manager. Russel Wilson is the best QB in that division and Jimmy can carry his luggage.

Brady doesn't play defense.It was Belichick's defense that took Mahomes to school. Against a defense like the 49ers no doubt Belichick would have made the same decision about Brady - see week 17 vs Dolphins.

Patriots would have been a better offense with Jimmy last year imo. I'm not comparing anyone to Brady's career that would be stupid. Only 2019.

 

[Triumph]

Patriots would have won Super Bowl 36 if Drew started.

Don't be mad Bradyites, Ty Law said it not me.

Ty Law: Patriots still would've won Super Bowl 36 with Drew Bledsoe instead of Tom Brady

Law's pick-six was responsible for one of the Patriots' two touchdowns in the 20-17 win.

www.masslive.com

Weak sauce

Brady was basically a rookie on a short leash. The drive to kick the winning FG was all Brady because he had icewater in his veins. Bledsoe could not have done it.

Its all a joke. Bledsoe went on to win nothing. His biggest achievement post NE was beating the Patriots after Lawyer Milloy was cut. Whoopee.

 

[sb1]

Weak sauce

Brady was basically a rookie on a short leash. The drive to kick the winning FG was all Brady because he had icewater in his veins. Bledsoe could not have done it.

Its all a joke. Bledsoe went on to win nothing. His biggest achievement post NE was beating the Patriots after Lawyer Milloy was cut. Whoopee.

Ty Law said it not me. Brady would not have gotten my MVP vote for that game though.

 

[Triumph]

Brady doesn't play defense.It was Belichick's defense that took Mahomes to school. Against a defense like the 49ers no doubt Belichick would have made the same decision about Brady - see week 17 vs Dolphins.

Patriots would have been a better offense with Jimmy last year imo. I'm not comparing anyone to Brady's career that would be stupid. Only 2019.

Brady took the NE offense on a 8 minute drive to open the game and keep Mahomes on the bench. Brady brought the Pats ahead down 28 - 24. Brady got the ball in OT and sealed the deal.

The defense sat and watched.

Jimmy would have been styling his hair.

 

[1960Pats]

Buddy

You really got some stupid going on here.

First off, the "last 16%" is the only area of coaching where the "system du Belichick" was fully in place. As such, it's the only real holistic sample available.

11-5 has only missed the playoffs twice in NFL history..........let that sink in.....if it can.

5-11 in 2000? You might be too young to remember but 1999 was a complete disaster. Lombardi and Knute Rockne would have gone 2-14 with that dumpster fire. That team was so bad ($11M over the cap and no 1st round pick) it's why something like 16 FA's were brought in and some kid from Michigan was kept because it was obvious Bledsoe wasn't getting it done.

Also, the interpretation of what transpired here in Cleveland is clown show interpretation. The team was horrendous when he arrived and within a few rebuild years they made the playoffs. People forget that in the 90's free agency wasn't really a tool for quick rebuilds.

In the final year here, the Browns were a favorite to make the Super Bowl and were on the way to the playoffs when Modell made history. Nobody and nothing could have changed what took place next. Unless you live in this area, it's not possible to truly understand what a debacle that was.

Ozzie Newsome is on record saying that if the move never happened, the Browns would have won a Super Bowl. Multiple is more accurate.

I was a Browns fan until the Pats were born, mainly because of Jim Brown.

We can only imagine how great the Browns could have been if Ozzie and Bill stayed together in Cleveland. There were also quite a few good coaches on that staff.

It's too bad that the fans were led astray by the mediots and faulted Belichick over Modell. One of my best friends is a lifelong Browns fan and he still hates Belichick. When I went there in 2000 with him for a Pats game (a loss) I was astounded at how much they all despised Bill.

Then we went again 10 years later (another Pats loss) and although the hate wasn't as strong, it was still there. It was a great example of the power of the press. How are things there now?

 

[1960Pats]

Brady took the NE offense on a 8 minute drive to open the game and keep Mahomes on the bench. Brady brought the Pats ahead down 28 - 24. Brady got the ball in OT and sealed the deal.

The defense sat and watched.

Jimmy would have been styling his hair.

Great call by Reid to defer on the coin toss. C'mon man.

Just yesterday I watched the Inside The NYFL show on that game. The most amazing part was the three 3rd and 10's on the last drive. I don't know if there's any other QB that could pull that off in that situation.

 

[Kdo5]

Patriots would have won Super Bowl 36 if Drew started.

Don't be mad Bradyites, Ty Law said it not me.

Ty Law: Patriots still would've won Super Bowl 36 with Drew Bledsoe instead of Tom Brady

Law's pick-six was responsible for one of the Patriots' two touchdowns in the 20-17 win.

www.masslive.com

We all know Bledsoe would have thrown a costly interception or two.

 

[Deus Irae]

Joke of an O.P.


Just embarrassing.


The Patriots went 5-11 in 2000, including dropping 7 of their last 10.

In 2001, they were literally winless until Brady took over, and went 11-3 the rest of the way, and then 3-0 in the playoffs, and that includes going 9-0 in their final 9 games.

So, the statement "BB didn't start winning here until Brady took the field " is obviously correct.



And those 3 ballyhooed wins at the end of 2000 were against teams that finished

8-8
7-9
4-12


So, let's not pretend that was anything.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

I like Brady more than Belichick. Belichick is the coach. He's a phenomenonal coach, but Brady is my guy. Cam Newton is now our QB and I am always going to be a Patriots fan FIRST. However, ****ting on Brady is wrong imo. I will watch Buccaneer games occasionally with pride. Not because I am a bandwagoner. I still want Patriots to win SB. However, Brady is my favorite athlete. What it is.

 

[ashley]

UPF,

Couldn't have said it better myself!!!

They made each other...end of story.