Five Week 1 2013 Starters on Defense - Question Marks Today

[Rob0729]

We are talking about the 2104 defense. To me, each of the five represents significant value that needs to be replaced.

Personally, I think that it should short sighted to think that the loss of Wilfork and Kelly would be no big deal. IMHO, if that were to happen, we would sign one major free agent plus a high draft choice at DT.

You are also entitled to believe that we are better off with Harmon/Wilson than with Gregory/Harmon or Harmon/Gregory. I certainly disagree and think that we will now sign a free agent safety.

BOTTOM LINE
These players need to be replaced if they are not healthy. IMHO, to say that you would have replaced them anyway is somewhat beside the point. At least you didn't say that we have already replaced Wilfork and Kelly with Siliga and Jones.

I think that the DT spot needs to be upgraded whether Wilfork or Kelly come back. Never said otherwise. In fact, I said that in my post. I am just saying compared to last year. That is a position in need of an upgrade no matter what happens with Wilfork and Kelly. I am just not even considering them starters. Wilfork wasn't playing well before he was injured last year. And Kelly is at an age where he may never come back from injury.

I like Gregory, but I don't think his loss is a huge loss. The Pats may be worse at the position without him, but I don't think he was that big of a difference maker that his loss is huge catastrophe. I think he would have bee a solid back up if the Pats kept him.

 

[Dagg]

I would say 6 questions:

Cant we do any better than average Rob Ninkovich?

We really need a better pass rush. We didn't even sniff Manning in AFCG.

 

[varjao]

I would say 6 questions:

Cant we do any better than average Rob Ninkovich?

We really need a better pass rush. We didn't even sniff Manning in AFCG.

Absolutely.

Ninko is a great rotational player, we definitely need a better and younger DE to pair with Chandler Jones.

 

[Shockt327]

Run defense is not the only thing that Wilfork/Kelly provided.

Pass rush? Lol.

33 y/o Tommy Kelley hasn't done anything since 2011 as a passrusher (7.5 sacks). Meanwhile Chris Jones had 6 sacks this year + 1 in the playoffs. Tommy Kelley was better in his prime, obviously, but that era is over.

...and Wilfork could never rush the passer, anyway. He needs to go back to being a 2-down player if he stays on; though I'm not sure if he will w/ that Achilles. Certainly not at 10 million per year; not even close.

 

[50-yard-line]

Pass rush? Lol.

33 y/o Tommy Kelley hasn't done anything since 2011 as a passrusher (7.5 sacks). Meanwhile Chris Jones had 6 sacks this year + 1 in the playoffs. Tommy Kelley was better in his prime, obviously, but that era is over.

...and Wilfork could never rush the passer, anyway. He needs to go back to being a 2-down player if he stays on; though I'm not sure if he will w/ that Achilles. Certainly not at 10 million per year; not even close.

You don't expect your DT's to get many sacks and you don't measure them that way. In the games Kelly played last year, preseason and regular season, he was pushing the pocket back better than any DT that's been around here for years.

That type of interior pressure moves QB's like Brady and Manning out of their spot and gives the DE's more sacks by far.

 

[Sicilian]

You don't expect your DT's to get many sacks and you don't measure them that way. In the games Kelly played last year, preseason and regular season, he was pushing the pocket back better than any DT that's been around here for years.

That type of interior pressure moves QB's like Brady and Manning out of their spot and gives the DE's more sacks by far.

Thank you, I was going to type something similar but I just don't have the energy to go through it again. Seems like something that everyone should know by now, but they keep up with the Madden mentality, where every D-Lineman is either winning or losing his 1-on-1 matchup.

Wilfork, Kelly... hell, even back to Seymour when he was here. Their value always went way beyond numbers.

 

[strngplyr]

Pass rush? Lol.

33 y/o Tommy Kelley hasn't done anything since 2011 as a passrusher (7.5 sacks). Meanwhile Chris Jones had 6 sacks this year + 1 in the playoffs. Tommy Kelley was better in his prime, obviously, but that era is over.

...and Wilfork could never rush the passer, anyway. He needs to go back to being a 2-down player if he stays on; though I'm not sure if he will w/ that Achilles. Certainly not at 10 million per year; not even close.

Kelly was the most dominant pass rushing DT we've had in quite some time for his few games he was healthy.

He consistently pushed the pocket and moved the QB's off of their spot.

You don't judge a player by his sack total. Ninko was also near the tops of the league in combined hurries/hits/sacks. He's a lot better than he gets credit for.

 

[stinkypete]

Spikes' likely departure doesn't leave a question mark, it leaves Jamie Collins. A good rotational back/spot starter is all that's needed.

Depth at end is most important now. Jones and Nink are a fine starting combo, but the defense falls apart fast if one of them goes down. Problem is I'm not too crazy about the market at the position. Most of the guys fans are namedropping: Allen, Houston, Tuck, are looking for and will receive starter money and playing time.

I like DE Stephon Tuitt in the draft for his versatility on the line. He's not a true edge rusher but we don't need a true edge rusher, we need a big bodied, competent player to spell the rushers without a dropoff in overall defensive play.

 

[50-yard-line]

Spikes' likely departure doesn't leave a question mark, it leaves Jamie Collins. A good rotational back/spot starter is all that's needed.

Depth at end is most important now. Jones and Nink are a fine starting combo, but the defense falls apart fast if one of them goes down. Problem is I'm not too crazy about the market at the position. Most of the guys fans are namedropping: Allen, Houston, Tuck, are looking for and will receive starter money and playing time.

I'll agree on Allen and Tuck - if thy want big bucks, they aren't worth it. I disagree on Houston - he might be the best DE on the market (with Johnson< Bennett, and Ware, if he hits FA) and SHOULD get starter's money near the top end.

I would LOVE to see NE grab him and let him finish his career as a Pat, but it most likely won't happen.

 

[ATippett56]

Kelly was the most dominant pass rushing DT we've had in quite some time for his few games he was healthy.

Tommy Kelly is a 33 year old defensive tackle recovering from a torn ACL.

 

[strngplyr]

Tommy Kelly is a 33 year old defensive tackle recovering from a torn ACL.

So that makes my statement that he was the most dominant interior rusher on the team in years while healthy incorrect?

 

[ATippett56]

So that makes my statement that he was the most dominant interior rusher on the team in years while healthy incorrect?

Who cares what is in the past?

It's the future that matters and Kelly's recovery has yet to be released to the media.

 

[50-yard-line]

Tommy Kelly is a 33 year old defensive tackle recovering from a torn ACL.

He recovered from that same injury before (as did Mankins, who played on one).

He did his rehab with the Pats at Gillette. He wants to play again. I see no reason to think he can't, or more importantly, no reason to think they'll keep him if THEY think he can't.

I expect Kelly to get limited snaps in preseason and to be starting on the line in Week 1.

 

[ATippett56]

He recovered from that same injury before (as did Mankins, who played on one).

He did his rehab with the Pats at Gillette. He wants to play again. I see no reason to think he can't, or more importantly, no reason to think they'll keep him if THEY think he can't.

I expect Kelly to get limited snaps in preseason and to be starting on the line in Week 1.

The last sentence is pure speculation on your part.

 

[mgteich]

Perhaps, hope would be a better characterization.

The last sentence is pure speculation on your part.

 

[50-yard-line]

Perhaps, hope would be a better characterization.

Absolutely to both - it's hope and speculation. Speculation because Kelly has rarely missed games in his career due to injury. And hope because the idea that the Pats are going to spend big bucks replacing him isn't true to NE history - and it will take big bucks to properly replace that guy next year.

 

[AzPatsFan]

No doubt their injuries are a concern, but to say that Jones and Siliga are capable replacements right now is just silly. It's not even remotely close to true.

We have some solid guys who are great rotational players, but if Wilfork and Kelly aren't fit to play at a high level, then we need some very serious outside help at the position.

The Team went 12-4 playing them as rookies...

No, they are not as good as Willfork or Kelly were in their youth and uninjured but now? The team accumulated 48 sacks, the highest total since Ray Berry was Coach and we were facing... Da Beahs! So they were at least adequate. The Run Defense was as much attributable to missing Mayo and Spikes as the DL.

 

[Tunescribe]

Mayo's progress bears watching. Coming back 100 percent from a torn pec is not a given.

 

[RayClay]

1. We already replaced Wilfork and Kelley last year; Siliga and Jones are more than capable with Vellano getting reps as well....Oh, and all 3 have more experience playing in NE than Kelley ever did. Wilfork? I'd like him back, but I'm not exactly worried if he leaves. NE has the talent to move on, as we saw last year.

Wow, that was easy!

Haven't seen a transition like that since the days of the alchemists.

 

[patsfan13]

Well there are certainly question marks due to the injuries.

On the DL I think we will see more 4 man lines when we go 3-4 Ninko can play as a LB, if need be.

DE needs an addition or two, we need a rotation, the big question is whether Buchanan make the 2nd year leap and become a viable rotation player. If so we need to add 1 player. Bequette, is gone he has shown nothing.

DT has been covered pretty well, ideally Siliga and Chris Jones are the backups in the rotation Silinga on the running downs and Jones on the passing downs.

IF Wilfolk and Kelley are healthy we are set. However expecting 2 older players to be effective coming off injuries at their ages is unrealistic.

The wildcard here is Armstead who has become the invisible man. He was dynamite in Canada if he is healthy he could be the upgrade we want at DT to provide a push up the middle.

As far as LB goes the injury question mark is Mayo, if healthy we are fine for starters, Hightower will be fine in the middle, Collins will be a star IMO he has all pro potential and seems to be 'getting it', can't wait to see him.

We need to resign Fletcher and get another LB for the rotation.