Five Week 1 2013 Starters on Defense - Question Marks Today

[strngplyr]

The Team went 12-4 playing them as rookies...

No, they are not as good as Willfork or Kelly were in their youth and uninjured but now? The team accumulated 48 sacks, the highest total since Ray Berry was Coach and we were facing... Da Beahs! So they were at least adequate. The Run Defense was as much attributable to missing Mayo and Spikes as the DL.

And the defense became a major weak link with them starting. You need to be blind to have not seen them get pushed around.

I'm not saying they should be off the team, I'm saying that we're, most likely, going to have the same defensive issues if we start the same guys on the interior. I like both Siliaga and Jones, just not as every down starters.

 

[Fencer]

Siliga and Jones are more than capable

What level of play would you regard as "exactly capable"?

 

[Fencer]

We are talking about the 2104 defense.

That may be beyond Tom Brady's window.

 

[Fencer]

By the end of last year, only Gregory and Talib were starters. Both Wilfork and Kelly were gone in September. Spikes was injured for a large part of the stretch of the season and Collins earned his way into the starting line up.

So the return of Wilfork and/or Kelly would be an addition more than a loss to the starting line up if either or both are cut. I also think Harmon's development made Gregory expendable.

The Pats probably need to upgrade the DT spot no matter what happens with Wilfork and Kelly, but I only see the loss of Talib as anything major to this defense from last year.

That's a common fallacy, in that it overlooks that at the beginning of any season a team needs a lot more talent and depth than it has at the end of any season (remarkably injury-free years perhaps excepted).

 

[Fencer]

We have major question marks with regard to FIVE starting positions.
CB - TALIB is a free agent.
SS - GREGORY is gone.
DT - WILFORK is injured and has a very high cap hit.
DT - KELLY is injured.
LB - SPIKES is likely gone.

Spikes can be replaced with an inferior player, because we have Mayo/Hightower/Collins.

Gregory can be replaced with an inferior player, because we have Harmon.

Talib would be a great loss, just as he is when he goes down to injury.

Rehabbing Wilfork and Kelly might be the best options at their positions, depending on what BB thinks about the upside of the guys who finished last season, plus Armstead.

Agreed that we need an upgrade at #3 DE. One or two "pin back the ears" pure pass rushers might suffice, even if they were questionable at run defense.

 

[mgteich]

LINEBACKER
I don't see how we are a better team if we replace Spikes and Fletcher by inferior players. Ido agree that we can count on Collins improving and re-sign Fletcher and hope for no injuries. I am nitpicking. I do believe that we will be OK if we re-sign Fletcher PLUS signing another linebacker not as good as Spikes.

SAFETY
I'm not with you here. I think that we are significantly worse without Gregory. Last year, many consider that Gregory was a quality backup put in as a starter out of necessity. Even if Harmon is now equal to Gregory last year (highly doubtful), we still need a backup equal to Gregory to break even. In addition, the cost needs to be equal to Gregory.

To me, we need to get better at safety. Unless we sign a major improvement over Gregory, I don't see that happening. And we are one year closer to the end of McCourty's contract. Adding a quality safety this year is critical.

FRONT SEVEN
We both agree that we help at both DE and DT. We both hope that the answer will be a re-habbed Wilfork and Kelly. I agree with another of your posts where you allocated a significant about of free agent cash for a DT. This will be necessary if wither Wilfork or Kelly is not coming back.

Spikes can be replaced with an inferior player, because we have Mayo/Hightower/Collins.

Gregory can be replaced with an inferior player, because we have Harmon.

Talib would be a great loss, just as he is when he goes down to injury.

Rehabbing Wilfork and Kelly might be the best options at their positions, depending on what BB thinks about the upside of the guys who finished last season, plus Armstead.

Agreed that we need an upgrade at #3 DE. One or two "pin back the ears" pure pass rushers might suffice, even if they were questionable at run defense.

 

[Shockt327]

And the defense became a major weak link with them (Siliga/Jones/Vellano) starting. You need to be blind to have not seen them get pushed around.

Likewise, you need to be blind to have not noticed their big improvement vs the run over the last 6 weeks; Once Again:

Over the first 4 weeks with Wilfork/Kelley the rushing yards allowed were:
136-129-97-58 (average of 105).

Over the last 6 weeks (including playoffs) with Jones/Siliga/Vellano; rushing yards allowed were:
108-89-121-169-69-107 (average of 110.5).

What level of play would you regard as "exactly capable"?

You mean "more than capable?" How about the level-of-play where they give up only 5.5 ypg more than Wilfork and Kelley did against the run.

 

[Deus Irae]

Likewise, you need to be blind to have not noticed their big improvement vs the run over the last 6 weeks; Once Again:

Over the first 4 weeks with Wilfork/Kelley the rushing yards allowed were:
136-129-97-58 (average of 105).

Over the last 6 weeks (including playoffs) with Jones/Siliga/Vellano; rushing yards allowed were:
108-89-121-169-69-107 (average of 110.5).



You mean "more than capable?" How about the level-of-play where they give up only 5.5 ypg more than Wilfork and Kelley did against the run.

Dear God, there is so much fail here that I don't know where to begin. Rather than break it all down, I'll just sum it up:

At the end of the season, they mostly played teams that were poor running teams, teams focusing on the pass, or both.

Browns - 23rd in y/a (25 for 108, 4.32)
Dolphins - 17th in y/a (23 for 89, 3.87)
Ravens - 32nd in y/a (28 for 121, 4.32)
Bills - 14th in y/a (35 for 169, 4.83)


With the exception of the Dolphins, those teams had no problem running the ball against the Patriots.

I assume you're making a joke when you cite to the playoffs. Nobody would be foolish enough to seriously claim that those games showed the run defense could get the job done.

 

[Fencer]

You mean "more than capable?" How about the level-of-play where they give up only 5.5 ypg more than Wilfork and Kelley did against the run.

I mean what I wrote, for Deus' reasons.

 

[supafly]

I think that we are significantly worse without Gregory. Last year, many consider that Gregory was a quality backup put in as a starter out of necessity. Even if Harmon is now equal to Gregory last year (highly doubtful), we still need a backup equal to Gregory to break even. In addition, the cost needs to be equal to Gregory.

To me, we need to get better at safety. Unless we sign a major improvement over Gregory, I don't see that happening. And we are one year closer to the end of McCourty's contract. Adding a quality safety this year is critical.

I think we all share the safety concerns. Like you said, it'd be great to see them bring in someone from FA who's worth a damn. If not, we'll probably have no other choice but to target it in the first 2-3 rounds of the draft again. On top of that, we'll have to hope that we can get better value than Gregory's 3.5 million cap hit would have been without too far of a dropoff in talent.

Lots of time to try and improve on Gregory though, not to mention there's even the possibility that he could end up coming back for a lesser cost as a backup if no one else gives much interest.