Five Week 1 2013 Starters on Defense - Question Marks Today

[mgteich]

We have major question marks with regard to FIVE starting positions.
CB - TALIB is a free agent.
SS - GREGORY is gone.
DT - WILFORK is injured and has a very high cap hit.
DT - KELLY is injured.
LB - SPIKES is likely gone.

 

[JackBauer]

I don't think Spikes/LB is a question mark. They've already made clear where they're headed at LB, and they've already got starters on the roster. That said, I'd like them to go LB in the draft, since we're fairly thin there now.

 

[Shockt327]

1. We already replaced Wilfork and Kelley last year; Siliga and Jones are more than capable with Vellano getting reps as well....Oh, and all 3 have more experience playing in NE than Kelley ever did. Wilfork? I'd like him back, but I'm not exactly worried if he leaves. NE has the talent to move on, as we saw last year.

2. Spikes saw limited reps through last year and got replaced by Jamie Collins.

3. Gregory sucked, so what.

4. If Talib leaves? Yes, then it's a legit loss that there is no equal for on the current roster. Hope they bring him back.

 

[50-yard-line]

1. We already replaced Wilfork and Kelley last year; Siliga and Jones are more than capable with Vellano getting reps as well....Oh, and all 3 have more experience playing in NE than Kelley ever did. Wilfork? I'd like him back, but I'm not exactly worried if he leaves. NE has the talent to move on, as we saw last year.

2. Spikes saw limited reps through last year and got replaced by Jamie Collins.

3. Gregory sucked, so what.

4. If Talib leaves? Yes, then it's a legit loss that there is no equal for on the current roster. Hope they bring him back.

Siliga and Jones are nowhere near the level of Wilfork and Kelly.

 

[JackBauer]

1. We already replaced Wilfork and Kelley last year; Siliga and Jones are more than capable with Vellano getting reps as well....Oh, and all 3 have more experience playing in NE than Kelley ever did. Wilfork? I'd like him back, but I'm not exactly worried if he leaves. NE has the talent to move on, as we saw last year.

Uh oh. Hope you're ready for an unfavorable reaction!

 

[Rob0729]

By the end of last year, only Gregory and Talib were starters. Both Wilfork and Kelly were gone in September. Spikes was injured for a large part of the stretch of the season and Collins earned his way into the starting line up.

So the return of Wilfork and/or Kelly would be an addition more than a loss to the starting line up if either or both are cut. I also think Harmon's development made Gregory expendable.

The Pats probably need to upgrade the DT spot no matter what happens with Wilfork and Kelly, but I only see the loss of Talib as anything major to this defense from last year.

 

[Sicilian]

1. We already replaced Wilfork and Kelley last year; Siliga and Jones are more than capable

 

[strngplyr]

1. We already replaced Wilfork and Kelley last year; Siliga and Jones are more than capable with Vellano getting reps as well....Oh, and all 3 have more experience playing in NE than Kelley ever did. Wilfork? I'd like him back, but I'm not exactly worried if he leaves. NE has the talent to move on, as we saw last year.

2. Spikes saw limited reps through last year and got replaced by Jamie Collins.

3. Gregory sucked, so what.

4. If Talib leaves? Yes, then it's a legit loss that there is no equal for on the current roster. Hope they bring him back.

ROFL.

Lets see, we were a top 5 defense to start the season before losing Mayo, Wilfork, and Kelly, followed by becoming the 32nd ranked rushing defense until the final game or 2.

The healthy guys on the roster now are good rotational players, they are not starters.

They could be one day, but they aren't those people as we speak.

 

[old 55]

Siliga and Jones are nowhere near the level of Wilfork and Kelly.

In their prime, no question, but Vince is a large guy coming off an Achilles and it's unrealistic to think he'll be the player he was a couple of years ago. Kelly is also a question after his injury.
I may be in the minority, but I'd rather move on from Talib and focus on a long term replacement. I just think we'll tie up big bucks and he'll be hurt again in or before the playoffs.

 

[strngplyr]

In their prime, no question, but Vince is a large guy coming off an Achilles and it's unrealistic to think he'll be the player he was a couple of years ago. Kelly is also a question after his injury.
I may be in the minority, but I'd rather move on from Talib and focus on a long term replacement. I just think we'll tie up big bucks and he'll be hurt again in or before the playoffs.

No doubt their injuries are a concern, but to say that Jones and Siliga are capable replacements right now is just silly. It's not even remotely close to true.

We have some solid guys who are great rotational players, but if Wilfork and Kelly aren't fit to play at a high level, then we need some very serious outside help at the position.

 

[mgteich]

LINEBACKER
So, we have Mayo, Hightower and Collins, with ZERO rotational LB's and ZERO backups. Perhaps you are counting on STer Beauharnais to replace Spikes and Fletcher.

I don't think Spikes/LB is a question mark. They've already made clear where they're headed at LB, and they've already got starters on the roster. That said, I'd like them to go LB in the draft, since we're fairly thin there now.

 

[mgteich]

We are talking about the 2104 defense. To me, each of the five represents significant value that needs to be replaced.

Personally, I think that it should short sighted to think that the loss of Wilfork and Kelly would be no big deal. IMHO, if that were to happen, we would sign one major free agent plus a high draft choice at DT.

You are also entitled to believe that we are better off with Harmon/Wilson than with Gregory/Harmon or Harmon/Gregory. I certainly disagree and think that we will now sign a free agent safety.

BOTTOM LINE
These players need to be replaced if they are not healthy. IMHO, to say that you would have replaced them anyway is somewhat beside the point. At least you didn't say that we have already replaced Wilfork and Kelly with Siliga and Jones.

By the end of last year, only Gregory and Talib were starters. Both Wilfork and Kelly were gone in September. Spikes was injured for a large part of the stretch of the season and Collins earned his way into the starting line up.

So the return of Wilfork and/or Kelly would be an addition more than a loss to the starting line up if either or both are cut. I also think Harmon's development made Gregory expendable.

The Pats probably need to upgrade the DT spot no matter what happens with Wilfork and Kelly, but I only see the loss of Talib as anything major to this defense from last year.

 

[mgteich]

To be clear, I'm fine if Belichick replaces all of these players. However, the reality is that these players will need to replaced if they are not healthy. That gives us a startoing point on defense of re-signing, replacing or rehabbing six players (the five plus Fletcher).

For completeness, I would add the need at DE, unless folks are happy with Jones and Ninkovich being counted on for over 90% of the defensive reps. We have Bequette ready to step in the base and Buchanan in the sub. But then, that's why Jones and Ninkovich played over 90% of the reps.

So, SEVEN needs on defense.

 

[JackBauer]

LINEBACKER
So, we have Mayo, Hightower and Collins, with ZERO rotational LB's and ZERO backups. Perhaps you are counting on STer Beauharnais to replace Spikes and Fletcher.

This is a truly bizarre post.

How on earth could you write this:

Perhaps you are counting on STer Beauharnais to replace Spikes and Fletcher.

...after I wrote this:

That said, I'd like them to go LB in the draft, since we're fairly thin there now.

Yes, we need better depth at LB. If that's the criteria you're using for this thread, you could have listed nearly every position on the team.

 

[old 55]

I don't see Bequette as anything but a camp cut. He's had enough time to develop and there's not enough to warrant a roster spot.

 

[mgteich]

You said that LB was not an issue. I over-reacted. This is a message board; get used to it.

I agree with Scar that he have major problems and issues in the front seven. Thinking that the issues are more than needing a little depth is hardly bizarre, but you are entitled to your opinion.
====
To be clear, I will make another statement that you amy consider bizarre.

Other than the need for a top corner and the need to draft a TE, the major problem, the major issues to be solved, are in the front seven of the defense.

This is a truly bizarre post.

How on earth could you write this:



...after I wrote this:



Yes, we need better depth at LB. If that's the criteria you're using for this thread, you could have listed nearly every position on the team.

 

[Shockt327]

Siliga and Jones are nowhere near the level of Wilfork and Kelly.

Uh oh. Hope you're ready for an unfavorable reaction!

ROFL.

Lets see, we were a top 5 defense to start the season before losing Mayo, Wilfork, and Kelly, followed by becoming the 32nd ranked rushing defense until the final game or 2.

The healthy guys on the roster now are good rotational players, they are not starters.

They could be one day, but they aren't those people as we speak.

We had Wilfork and Kelley for basically the first 4 weeks. Over those 4 weeks the rushing yards allowed were: 136-129-97-58 (average of 105).

During the middle of the season, yeah, things sucked. No excuses from me. I get it. They really couldn't stop the run. But after Siliga got going and Jones got some more experience; they looked pretty damn good.

Over the last 6 weeks (including playoffs) their rushing yards allowed got way better: 108-89-121-169-69-107 (average of 110.5).

So, Yeah. I stand by my point; The Pats have the talent to move on. Oh, and Wilfork is 1) currently overpaid 2) will be 33 next year 3) and trying to come back from an Achilles tear is awfully tough.

 

[JackBauer]

You said that LB was not an issue. I over-reacted. This is a message board; get used to it.

I didn't say that LB wasn't an issue. I took issue with you including LB with the other positions you listed and the notion that the position is a "major" question mark.

I agree with Scar that he have major problems and issues in the front seven. Thinking that the issues are more than needing a little depth is hardly bizarre, but you are entitled to your opinion.

To be clear, I will make another statement that you amy consider bizarre.

Other than the need for a top corner and the need to draft a TE, the major problem, the major issues to be solved, are in the front seven of the defense.

Front seven and linebacker are not synonyms. Clearly we need help at DE and DT, and I consider interior OL a "must upgrade" position as well. The difference between CB(depending on Talib)/DT/DE/IOL/S and LB is attention to the former is a necessity and attention to the latter is a luxury (note: I am referring to the top line starters, specifically).

 

[Sicilian]

We had Wilfork and Kelley for basically the first 4 weeks. Over those 4 weeks the rushing yards allowed were: 136-129-97-58 (average of 105).

During the middle of the season, yeah, things sucked. No excuses from me. I get it. They really couldn't stop the run. But after Siliga got going and Jones got some more experience; they looked pretty damn good.

Over the last 6 weeks (including playoffs) their rushing yards allowed got way better: 108-89-121-169-69-107 (average of 110.5).

So, Yeah. I stand by my point; The Pats have the talent to move on. Oh, and Wilfork is 1) currently overpaid 2) will be 33 next year 3) and trying to come back from an Achilles tear is awfully tough.

Run defense is not the only thing that Wilfork/Kelly provided.

 

[Deus Irae]

1. We already replaced Wilfork and Kelley last year; Siliga and Jones are more than capable with Vellano getting reps as well....Oh, and all 3 have more experience playing in NE than Kelley ever did. Wilfork? I'd like him back, but I'm not exactly worried if he leaves. NE has the talent to move on, as we saw last year.

2. Spikes saw limited reps through last year and got replaced by Jamie Collins.