First Female to Tryout for NFL

[TheBostonStraggler]

See, isn't it funny that you can't see your own pot-kettle situation here?

You're so pent up with ranting emotion about how PC everything is that you forget to be supposedly "unemotional and logical" yourself. You lose the validity of your argument when you accuse others of being emotional and illogical while being emotional and illogical in your own post.

I'm not saying you're even necessarily wrong in your point itself (though you could be! ), just saying you look silly accusing some supposed groups of people doing something that you yourself are doing.

There is a place to try have rational discussions about stuff like this but internet forums are definitely NOT it! :bricks:

Allow me to just slightly alter your conclusion. I use the PC crowd as a description of a belief/group/point of view. The opposite side, in the instance I spoke of, uses their description of a group as a way to win an argument outside the argument's merits. That you could not see that obvious difference is unsurprising given some who uses the threshold of 'it didn't kill us/we are still here' as an argument of the beneficial merits of something as well as believes no where is Political Correctness pushed when there are so many examples of the media pushing PC (as well as college campuses) as to be practically impossible to list them all here.

 

[BSR]

the original point is because this woman showed an ability to kick a long field goal she should be allowed to play NFL football...of course the 12 year kid doing the same thing is exaggeration but where does it end? I see you feel anybody who is opposed to blind 100% gender norming no matter what the sport is pathetic, then I admit it...I'm pathetic....and no I will not power wash your ivory tower for free....

I'm pretty sure it ends at the point there are better male players that can make the team. I really don't understand what your concern is. If you really don't think women can play then what makes you think they can make a team? Its like you are personally offended at the thought that somewhere out there a woman may exist that could somehow compete with a man. The real irony is that we are talking about kickers in this situation. Not the epitome of size, speed and toughness.

 

[Joker]

I'm pretty sure it ends at the point there are better male players that can make the team. I really don't understand what your concern is. If you really don't think women can play then what makes you think they can make a team? Its like you are personally offended at the thought that somewhere out there a woman may exist that could somehow compete with a man. The real irony is that we are talking about kickers in this situation. Not the epitome of size, speed and toughness.

jeezus krist just stop.... I never said women can't play the game...I printed the link to the Professional Women's Football League...are you just being selectively blind? to buttress your own overwhelming desire to experience the mutation of the NFL into something it is not right now?

Get this through your thick skull..inject a woman, any woman into any position on an NFL field of play CHANGES the game in many different ways,some horribly negative. You refuse to see the HUMAN frailty involved and presume that the male players will all act and perform as perfect ahtletic paragons of virtue. NOTHING is farther from the truth as it stands RIGHT NOW. You see no problem as long as the women is a kicker...what could possibly happen??? Read the following links describing what happens at the bottom of a pile when there's a loose ball...you know, like when the snap is botched and the kicker falls on top of the fumble?

Seahawks | When NFL players dive for a loose ball, what happens in the pile stays in the pile | Seattle Times Newspaper

"It's a loose football," Seattle defensive tackle Craig Terrill said. "It's the most valuable thing in the NFL. So you go after it."

It's not like trying to find a needle in a haystack so much as it's trying to endure reaching into a haystack full of needles. What happens in a football pile isn't exactly dinner-table conversation.

"You've got eye-poking," defensive back Kennard Cox said. "You've got mouth-grabbing. You've got hand-bending. Anything to get the ball."

SI.com - SI Players - How It Feels: The Bottom of the Pile - Wednesday January 26, 2005 2:08PM

IKE REESE, Eagles Linebacker

"When we played the Patriots last year [Eagles running back] Brian Westbrook fumbled a punt, and we were all down there scrambling for it. [Patriots linebacker] Mike Vrabel had my testicles in his hand, and he was squeezing them. Where the football ends up depends on who has the strongest will or the strongest hands. Guys reach inside the face mask to gouge your eyes. But the biggest thing is the grabbing of the testicles. It is crazy."

Put a woman player in THAT position, and it WILL happen, of that there is a CERTAINTY, and any grabbing of HER genitals constitutes a sexual assault under Massachusetts law. This means that the pile is undone, she goes to the head linesman, reports that her genital area was physically grabbed and pulled at along with other anatomical body parts, the head linesman is bound by law to immediately report this FELONY to authorities who are bound by law to arrest the perpetrator(s) and lead them from the filed of play in handcuffs.

Welcome to YOUR brave new world of "Why Not A Female Kicker?"....this great game is changed forever from what it has been for a century into a minefield of legal entanglements. Can Nick Mangold's sister play on the offensive line in the NFL??? Probably, with enough reps...she's certainly strong enough



There are those that desire to see Tamika Catchings play on an NBA team...the WNBA superstar scoffs at the notion.She is a bona fide superstar in her league and THAT, using plain common sense, is light years beyond anything she could accomplish sitting at the end of an NBA bench, if she even makes the cut. The best women's basketball professional in the world. Yet you insist that a woman, on the strength of a long practice field goal kick and ZERO experience playing men's football, should compete with world class male athletes in the most physically dangerous and volatile sport in the world because, well "it's only the kicker" and stick your fingers in your ears repeating "nonny nu nu I can't hear you" when there is a clear professional venue for her to already compete in...or did you miss THIS? The 32 team womens professional football league.....

The Official Website of the Independent Women's Football League: Home

Its like you are personally offended at the thought that somewhere out there a woman may exist that could somehow compete with a man.

One hundred per cent absolute false on your part. I believe women are intellectually equal or superior to men in every facet of our society. I find the fact that a women has yet to be elected President of this country, a country that is 51% female by population, a stain on the political process and a wrong that must be corrected. I believe any woman with the financial means has the right as much as any man to own and operate any national sports franchise as she sees fit and name whoever, of whatever sex , to run any part of said organization. I do not believe that allowing a woman to play a violent men's sport, populated by the Bernard Pollards, Joey Porters and Richard Shermans of the league,just to prove some arguably tenuous "gender equality" issue is a wise and prudent move whatsoever. I think it is ridiculous...and as I have shown using the examples quoted above, opens a Pandora's Box from which there is no return.

That's as clear as I can state it...I don't expect you to see it though.If a woman can fight on the battlefield then she can certainly try out for running back, kicker or whatever position she wants....but just the very fact that ANY woman playing in a tackle football game with world class male athletes changes the very nature of the game itself means that the NFL as we know it has ceased to exist.It becomes a new iteration...with a whole new set of seen and unforeseen pitfalls. YOU want to fix what is NOT broken. I oppose that viewpoint.

 

[Frezo]

That was awesome Joker! The first time I see 42DD hangers in a three point stance this sport will be history and Ian can change the name of the site to PatsCans.

 

[ausbacker]

I feel like I'm reading the back and forth between evolutionists and creationists right now.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Well even if she could kick better than Gostkowski... And right now there's probably a number of people who could. Wouldn't it be awkward for her taking locker room showers with 52 men? LOL.

 

[Fencer]

The moment someone makes the "argument" that anyone should be allowed to be part of anything regardless of gender, I want you to put your money where your mouth is and speak out against gender based sporting teams. Every team (whether it currently is a male or female based team) should immediately become open to anyone regardless of their gender. Because 'if you can do it then you should be allowed to try out for that team, gender should not matter' is the logic, right?

Nope. You can want all you want, but you won't get it.

The argument is whether the TOP level of competition should be open to everybody good enough to compete. Whether there are also subsidiary levels restricted by age or gender or nationality or physical handicap or level of schooling or whatever is a separate matter.

 

[Fencer]

Those of you who think women shouldn't be able to compete with men even when they're good enough -- does that apply to all sports, or just to football and basketball?

For example, would you object if any Olympic sport let men and women compete directly against each other?

(Hint: There are several in which they in fact do.)

 

[Fencer]

This thread topic is the absurdity.

To your point....

Moshe Kai Cavalin, The 11-Year-Old College Graduate With 4.0 GPA (VIDEO)

the kid is an accomplished martial artist also.....LET'S GIVE HIM A SHOT!!!..after all, he meets the criteria.

I graduated from Ohio State when I was 16.

I later, truly, regretted that doing so cost me my NCAA eligibility. (Because I wanted to join the fencing team at my grad school.)

 

[Fencer]

I think that if a woman can play the game at a high level and sustain the physicality of the sport, then they belong.. but i dont really see how a woman, even someone in the top 2% percentile for their gender, would be more fit than a male athlete.

The only other problem with women in the NFL is that it affects the locker room. I had a female on my team when I was young in Pop Warner, and she definitely came to play and was better than most of the guys, it wasn;t just some statement her and her parents were trying to make, this girl could play football at that level and wasnt afraid of any of the guys... but they did have to do special things for her when it came to getting uniform fittings, state weigh ins, etc.. they obviously had to segregate her when we were all changing and doing things like that..

That would be a primary concern as a player if there were a woman on the team.. How is it going to affect the locker room? Can they just walk around naked or is she going to file a sexual harassment complaint on them? Does she shower just like "one of the guys" or does she have to have her own shower and locker room?

I guess after watching movies like Starship Troopers, it would have to be a unisex type locker room and the guys would have to deal with her being naked and she would have to deal with guys being naked. I don't see how you could get around it any other way really.

Although from what I understand, female reporters are allowed inside a locker room and guys don't really make a lot of effort to cover up and will just walk around totally naked.. The first female reporter that makes a stink or files a sexual harassment lawsuit against a player or a team though for something in the locker room will be the day that they aren't allowed in the locker rooms anymore.



TL;DR If she can beat out a man for the job, then she deserves it... but it could have an adverse affect on the locker room.

People can learn.

We have women in the military now.

Getting them in the infantry will take a bit longer than other roles, however, for reasons akin to those of the locker room.

Certainly the woman has to accept being looked at to the same extent men are.

 

[Fencer]

I don't know about the girl dying thing, but the lawsuit angle is potentially significant. We saw a similar situation in golf, with Casey Martin, where the PGA was forced to change its rules in order to accomodate a handicapped individual. People who ignore such issues have either have agendas that need to be questioned and explored, or are just not really prepared for the full, honest discussion that is warranted.

We disposed of the issues dozens of posts ago.

Nobody's arguing that a woman should get an NFL placekicker job unless she can excel at that job, ALL PARTS OF THE JOB CONSIDERED. Some of those parts include delivering or taking hits.

If you can't even survive the job, then in particular you can't excel at it. Except, of course, if you want to be a suicide bomber -- but that's not currently an NFL position, due to restrictions upon the use of explosives on the field.

 

[Fencer]

Put a woman player in THAT position, and it WILL happen, of that there is a CERTAINTY, and any grabbing of HER genitals constitutes a sexual assault under Massachusetts law.

No more than grabbing a man's genitals, or hitting him, or tackling him ...

 

[BSR]

jeezus krist just stop.... I never said women can't play the game...I printed the link to the Professional Women's Football League...are you just being selectively blind? to buttress your own overwhelming desire to experience the mutation of the NFL into something it is not right now?

You are saying exactly that they can't play at the same level as a man, which I probably agree with for 99.99999% of the women out there but I leave it open for the possibility that there is a few that can. To you this is offensive. My evidence for this? Your following statements:

You refuse to see the HUMAN frailty involved and presume that the male players will all act and perform as perfect athletic paragons of virtue.

It's not like trying to find a needle in a haystack so much as it's trying to endure reaching into a haystack full of needles. What happens in a football pile isn't exactly dinner-table conversation.

Put a woman player in THAT position, and it WILL happen, of that there is a CERTAINTY, and any grabbing of HER genitals constitutes a sexual assault under Massachusetts law.

This means that the pile is undone, she goes to the head linesman, reports that her genital area was physically grabbed and pulled at along with other anatomical body parts, the head linesman is bound by law to immediately report this FELONY to authorities who are bound by law to arrest the perpetrator(s) and lead them from the filed of play in handcuffs.

The above are ridiculous arguments and are the definition of chauvinism, although I am sure you will continue to claim that they aren't. I am sure any minute now we will hear "I am not a chauvinist my wife is a WOMAN!" The above quotes give away your notion that woman aren't mentally tough and are frail as if they will run off the field if they break a nail.

Can Nick Mangold's sister play on the offensive line in the NFL??? Probably, with enough reps...she's certainly strong enough

She is 5'8" so there is absolutely no way she can play. Take deep breaths and relax. See, even someone who has played their entire life against boys, is built like a truck and is as tough as most men won't make a team. One woman trying out for a kicker position isn't going to open the floodgates for women in the NFL. Relax.

One hundred per cent absolute false on your part. I believe women are intellectually equal or superior to men in every facet of our society.

Except that they aren't mentally tough enough to be under a pile in the NFL, right?

I find the fact that a women has yet to be elected President of this country, a country that is 51% female by population, a stain on the political process and a wrong that must be corrected. I believe any woman with the financial means has the right as much as any man to own and operate any national sports franchise as she sees fit and name whoever, of whatever sex , to run any part of said organization. I do not believe that allowing a woman to play a violent men's sport, populated by the Bernard Pollards, Joey Porters and Richard Shermans of the league,just to prove some arguably tenuous "gender equality" issue is a wise and prudent move whatsoever. I think it is ridiculous...and as I have shown using the examples quoted above, opens a Pandora's Box from which there is no return.

This is overly dramatic. There is no Pandora's Box. There is no bogeyman out there. She'll try out, she'll be rejected and the NFL will move on without her.

That's as clear as I can state it...I don't expect you to see it though.If a woman can fight on the battlefield then she can certainly try out for running back, kicker or whatever position she wants....but just the very fact that ANY woman playing in a tackle football game with world class male athletes changes the very nature of the game itself means that the NFL as we know it has ceased to exist.It becomes a new iteration...with a whole new set of seen and unforeseen pitfalls. YOU want to fix what is NOT broken. I oppose that viewpoint.

I don't WANT to fix anything. I just don't see the need to overreact to something that is likely never to happen. I have faith in the coaches and personnel guys that want to maintain their jobs and put the best players on the field. I think that if a woman did make it onto the field it would be because she would be a world class athlete equal in abilities to her teammates or even beyond if some team is going to be willing to make that jump.

 

[TomPatriot]

This really is dead time for football fans.

 

[Kontradiction]

We disposed of the issues dozens of posts ago.

Nobody's arguing that a woman should get an NFL placekicker job unless she can excel at that job, ALL PARTS OF THE JOB CONSIDERED. Some of those parts include delivering or taking hits.

If you can't even survive the job, then in particular you can't excel at it. Except, of course, if you want to be a suicide bomber -- but that's not currently an NFL position, due to restrictions upon the use of explosives on the field.

The difference is, and would be this...

1. Male kicker gets laid out on kick return - Nobody flinches because that's supposed to happen. The crowd would be silent until he's helped off the field, but there will be no aftershock through the media.

2. Female kicker gets laid out on kick return - Society, as a whole, cringes due to the fact that a man at peak physical condition just trucked a woman. She gets helped off the field. ESPN runs re-runs of this happening all throughout SportsCenter. Panelists debate whether or not there should be rules changes to accomodate the safety of the kicker on punt and kick returns, and people like the people that we have seen on here that are actually for a woman joining the sport are actually the ones that promote those rules changes. Ironic, yes?

Again, if women want to start their own football league (and not the LFL) then fine. All the power to them. But I don't see why they should be mixed in with the men in this sport when other sports don't mix women in with the men.

 

[TyronePoole]

The difference is, and would be this...

1. Male kicker gets laid out on kick return - Nobody flinches because that's supposed to happen. The crowd would be silent until he's helped off the field, but there will be no aftershock through the media.

2. Female kicker gets laid out on kick return - Society, as a whole, cringes due to the fact that a man at peak physical condition just trucked a woman. She gets helped off the field. ESPN runs re-runs of this happening all throughout SportsCenter. Panelists debate whether or not there should be rules changes to accomodate the safety of the kicker on punt and kick returns, and people like the people that we have seen on here that are actually for a woman joining the sport are actually the ones that promote those rules changes. Ironic, yes?

Again, if women want to start their own football league (and not the LFL) then fine. All the power to them. But I don't see why they should be mixed in with the men in this sport when other sports don't mix women in with the men.

This is complete nonsense and it's a tired argument that gets debunked every time one of these walls is broken down.

Tonight Rhonda Rousey and Liz Carmouche will be beating the everloving crap out of each other for a UFC audience of well over a million people, and not a single **** will be given that they're women.

The people who argue for extra safety will be arguing for it irrespective of whether a woman gets hit or not.

Your overprotective sensibilities are your problem, but if an NFL team thinks a woman can be good enough as a kicker to benefit their team then they should be able to employ them. Obviously if they are too frail to withstand a potential hit then that will factor into the calculation, but saying that as a rule they should be barred because Kontradiction might cry if he sees one hit is about the weakest kind of paternalistic sexism there is.

And a giant LOL at anyone who argues that the ability to tackle/block/hit factors into NFL teams' decisions on which kickers to hire.

 

[ivanvamp]

One question I'd like to ask you all is if you think there is a place in our country today for any single-gender organization or institution (sports leagues, clubs, schools, etc.). If so, why? If not, why not?

 

[TyronePoole]

One question I'd like to ask you all is if you think there is a place in our country today for any single-gender organization or institution (sports leagues, clubs, schools, etc.). If so, why? If not, why not?

yes I don't think men should be allowed in women's leagues. But women should be allowed in mens if good enough because they don't have an inherent advantage.

 

[Kontradiction]

This is complete nonsense and it's a tired argument that gets debunked every time one of these walls is broken down.

Tonight Rhonda Rousey and Liz Carmouche will be beating the everloving crap out of each other for a UFC audience of well over a million people, and not a single **** will be given that they're women.

Because they're women beating the everloving crap out of one another. Put Rhonda Rousey in the ring with Georges St. Pierre, the Diaz brothers, or Lyoto Machita and you really think that when they start pounding on her that society wouldn't gasp? What a ridiculous not to mention irrlevant point you just made. Further, I would like you to reference this part in my last post just to drive home how ridiculous that point was...

Again, if women want to start their own football league (and not the LFL) then fine. All the power to them. But I don't see why they should be mixed in with the men in this sport when other sports don't mix women in with the men.

Your overprotective sensibilities are your problem, but if an NFL team thinks a woman can be good enough as a kicker to benefit their team then they should be able to employ them.

There's a reason why a woman has never made an NFL squad, and it isn't due to my "overprotective" sensibilities. Further, NFL owners clearly only allowed them to try out in an attempt to avoid a future lawsuit.

Obviously if they are too frail to withstand a potential hit then that will factor into the calculation, but saying that as a rule they should be barred because Kontradiction might cry if he sees one hit is about the weakest kind of paternalistic sexism there is.

Now we see the liberal PC Police textbook agenda in action. If you can't argue against science and what would most certainly happen should a woman go head up with a world class athlete in peak physical condition, label the person you're arguing against a sexist. Well done. That crap might work down in the sewage runoff that you're used to posting in, but I won't bite. So call me a sexist all you want.

As for the statement that I "might cry", it's pretty far off. If that were to happen, I would have expected it given that I've noted that I believed that would happen throughout this thread. I would simply shake my head then get disgusted as the panelists and idiots throughout this country advocated rules changes after drumming up the cause to get women involved with one of the most hardcore, manly sports that there is, as if they didn't expect something like this to happen.

And a giant LOL at anyone who argues that the ability to tackle/block/hit factors into NFL teams' decisions on which kickers to hire.

I challenge you to quote me saying that.

 

[Kontradiction]

yes I don't think men should be allowed in women's leagues. But women should be allowed in mens if good enough because they don't have an inherent advantage.

This makes absolutely no sense.