Felger and Reiss go at it over Welker

[IcyPatriot]

You gotta work with the players, you cant take the dictatorship role and expect to win SB's. Players aren't taking less to play with the Patriots anymore, those days are gone because players won't play for a team that continues with the take it or leave it attitude. And why should the players take it.. there are teams out there willing to pay a little more to keep their star players. Players that make the team go. The Patriots assigning "value" to players and not budging gets you handfulls of players that are less talented which ends up losing to teams that are more talented because they pay their top players to stay. Things like this sends bad signs to current players and what could be future Pats players. So now we say the Patriots continue to get quantity over quality.

You can't deal with one player's contract in a vacuum .... this is the problem some fail to see. The Patriots salary structure revolves around the entire roster and not singular players.

 

[naF staP]

You can't deal with one player's contract in a vacuum .... this is the problem some fail to see. The Patriots salary structure revolves around the entire roster and not singular players.

Their roster is often muddled with a lot less talented players then quality players. They go through starters as often as most people change their pants. Sign the quality players at fair prices and then pick up these lesser talented players to back them up. Instead they have starters and backups who have the same talent. It's a you get what you pay for thing. Spend more wisely would be a good approach.

 

[BradyFTW!]

What a totally crazy post. Right call, Ha! It's not like it would have taken a lot more $ to keep Welker on the team. He wasn't asking for crazy money here. The market was different less then a year ago, when it changed Welker changed what he was willing to accept. I mean really, they continue to follow the same plan as they did years ago, it doesn't work. Instead of spending some money on a good young safety they go out and get an old vet who probably won't be an every down player. Quantity over Quality, it doesn't work like that anymore. When it counts they lose to teams who are more talented.

Posts like this are why nobody takes you seriously. Instead of spending money on a good young safety? How about this - rather than speaking vaguely, commit to an actual safety. Name one good young safety that you think is worth the price tag that he fetched in FA. Between Goldson, Quin, and Moore, which guy do you think is worth what he signed for? Once you've committed to one, explain who you would cut (or not sign) cut to make room under the cap for his contract. If you want bonus points, try to explain how cutting that other player to make room for the safety in question makes the team better.

 

[naF staP]

Posts like this are why nobody takes you seriously. Instead of spending money on a good young safety? How about this - rather than speaking vaguely, commit to an actual safety. Name one good young safety that you think is worth the price tag that he fetched in FA. Between Goldson, Quin, and Moore, which guy do you think is worth what he signed for? Once you've committed to one, explain who you would cut (or not sign) cut to make room under the cap for his contract. If you want bonus points, try to explain how cutting that other player to make room for the safety in question makes the team better.

I will answer it like this... Going into the off season there were a few holes to fill. Are you telling me they couldn't have kept Welker, Talib, added a deep threat and a young talented safety like lets say.. Goldson? Looking at where they stand now it could have easily been done. Easily!!

 

[Rory Gallagher]

Hahahaha, I know exactly who Rodney is. Matter of fact I talked to him less then a year ago and asked him what he thought would happen with Welker. He gave me one of those deer in the headlight looks, shook his head and said "you just never know what the Patriots are going to do. I hope he is back." That was a very telling response from him, imo.

That's impossible, I just had lunch with Rodney and he says he's never heard of you!

 

[BSR]

Spin it anyway you want it but the bottom line is if they wanted him they could have kept him. But instead it's the same old story, don't pay the players, offer what they "value" a player and end up with the Donald Jones' of the NFL. The injury prone Amendola's of the NFL. Come up short when you play teams in the playoffs and SB's that are more talented then the Pats. Brady can only do so much, they need to help him out a bit.

I agree, if they wanted him they could have kept him. So then what can we conclude since they didn't keep him?

 

[naF staP]

That's impossible, I just had lunch with Rodney and he says he's never heard of you!

Sure ya did!!

 

[JMC00]

I will answer it like this... Going into the off season there were a few holes to fill. Are you telling me they couldn't have kept Welker, Talib, added a deep threat and a young talented safety like lets say.. Goldson? Looking at where they stand now it could have easily been done. Easily!!

Stop playing fantasy gm

Cap hits for '13
Goldson- $9 million
Welker- $8 million (going by what Welker wanted originally)
Jennings- $7 million
Talib- $5 million
Arrington- $2.5 million
--
$31.5 million

$26 million was available

Puts them $5.5 million over that cap.

 

[naF staP]

You Patriots koolaid drinkers, my team can do no wrong fans need to go and observe other teams forums as an outsider looking in. You will see the same koolaid drinkers, their team can do no wrong fans who continue to defend their teams every move, right or wrong and it's just plain funny!! Then read the other fans posts who question some of the teams moves, who has different ideas for the team and they really make a lot of sense. You clearly get an understanding that people wear rose colored glasses when it comes to their team.

It's okay to question your favorite teams moves if they don't seem like good moves. It's okay, it really is. It doesn't make you less of a fan.

 

[JackBauer]

You Patriots koolaid drinkers, my team can do no wrong fans need to go and observe other teams forums as an outsider looking in. You will see the same koolaid drinkers, their team can do no wrong fans who continue to defend their teams every move, right or wrong and it's just plain funny!! Then read the other fans posts who question some of the teams moves, who has different ideas for the team and they really make a lot of sense. You clearly get an understanding that people wear rose colored glasses when it comes to their team.

It's okay to question your favorite teams moves if they don't seem like good moves. It's okay, it really is. It doesn't make you less of a fan.

Please dispense with this straw man bullcrap.

No one is saying it's wrong to be critical of the Patriots or the moves they make. No one.

However, if that's the path you choose you'd better be able to piece together semblance of a cogent argument if you want people to respond with anything other than ridicule and derision.

 

[JMC00]

You Patriots koolaid drinkers, my team can do no wrong fans need to go and observe other teams forums as an outsider looking in. You will see the same koolaid drinkers, their team can do no wrong fans who continue to defend their teams every move, right or wrong and it's just plain funny!! Then read the other fans posts who question some of the teams moves, who has different ideas for the team and they really make a lot of sense. You clearly get an understanding that people wear rose colored glasses when it comes to their team.

It's okay to question your favorite teams moves if they don't seem like good moves. It's okay, it really is. It doesn't make you less of a fan.

ok felgermassarottiborges

 

[BradyFTW!]

I will answer it like this... Going into the off season there were a few holes to fill. Are you telling me they couldn't have kept Welker, Talib, added a deep threat and a young talented safety like lets say.. Goldson? Looking at where they stand now it could have easily been done. Easily!!

Yes, that's exactly what I'm telling you. Goldson signed for 5 years, $41M, $22M guaranteed. Who would you cut (or not sign) on the Patriots roster to make room for that contract? And which deep threat would you have added? Again, stop speaking in vague terms - commit to someone, and specifically, commit to the contract that they signed.

I also find it strange that, in listing the Patriots needs, you neglected to mention a pass rusher. Are you satisfied with the pass rush in its current state?

 

[BradyFTW!]

Stop playing fantasy gm

Cap hits for '13
Goldson- $9 million
Welker- $8 million (going by what Welker wanted originally)
Jennings- $7 million
Talib- $5 million
Arrington- $2.5 million
--
$31.5 million

$26 million was available

Puts them $5.5 million over that cap.

And that's without addressing right tackle or defensive end.

Anyone who wishes that the Pats had signed Goldson (for what he got from Tampa Bay) is, to be blunt, clueless. I can't think of any other way to put it

 

[naF staP]

Please dispense with this straw man bullcrap.

No one is saying it's wrong to be critical of the Patriots or the moves they make. No one.

However, if that's the path you choose you'd better be able to piece together semblance of a cogent argument if you want people to respond with anything other than ridicule and derision.

It's thick in here dude. It really is. You can look through thread after thread and it's the same people over and over who does exactly what I described. And if someone has a different take then it is wrong.

I could say Amendola is injury prone and unproven. I would get posts saying he was injured a lot because the Rams play on artificial turf that is hard. And posts that say he had a couple of freak accidents, not injuries that happen over and over. And he isn't proven because of who he had throwing to him. Give me a break! All lame excuses yet I have read them all on this forum!

 

[naF staP]

Stop playing fantasy gm

Cap hits for '13
Goldson- $9 million
Welker- $8 million (going by what Welker wanted originally)
Jennings- $7 million
Talib- $5 million
Arrington- $2.5 million
--
$31.5 million

$26 million was available

Puts them $5.5 million over that cap.

Are you saying that there is nobody you can get rid of? Nobody that will restructure? There are ways to move money around, these owners aren't dumb. They are $16 mill under the cap right now. You really don't think that list is possible?

 

[IcyPatriot]

Their roster is often muddled with a lot less talented players then quality players. They go through starters as often as most people change their pants. Sign the quality players at fair prices and then pick up these lesser talented players to back them up. Instead they have starters and backups who have the same talent. It's a you get what you pay for thing. Spend more wisely would be a good approach.

Who has a more successful record in the last 10 - 15 - 20 years?

 

[50-yard-line]

You Patriots koolaid drinkers, my team can do no wrong fans need to go and observe other teams forums as an outsider looking in. You will see the same koolaid drinkers, their team can do no wrong fans who continue to defend their teams every move, right or wrong and it's just plain funny!! Then read the other fans posts who question some of the teams moves, who has different ideas for the team and they really make a lot of sense. You clearly get an understanding that people wear rose colored glasses when it comes to their team.

It's okay to question your favorite teams moves if they don't seem like good moves. It's okay, it really is. It doesn't make you less of a fan.

You realize that you contradict yourself post-to-post, right? So they should keep Welker and screw over other players with new deals (like Denver with Dumervil)?

You talk about the talent to win the SB, but they've had that talent in Welker, according to you, and yet...

If they wanted him, of course they could have kept him - that's always true - but at what price? That's the bottom line, because it's a zero-sum game. Paying one player more means paying someone else less with a hard cap.

It's just a calculated business move, on both parts. I wish Welker well, but not too well, and sure, after more than a decade of watching meaningful games in January and February, I'll have a little more of that kool-aid.

Denver might be the only serious contender to New England in the AFC this year, and look at what they just did to one of their stars, first by demanding he take a $4 million straight pay cut - not a restructure, but a pay cut! - then having the whole thing get all messed up with technicalities. If I was a fan of the Broncos, I'd be mightily pissed about that, you bet.

But with the Welker/Patriots thing? Meh, enough blame to go around between the three involved - Pats, agent, player. It's just business.

 

[JMC00]

And posts that say he had a couple of freak accidents, not injuries that happen over and over.

During a report on Fox's pregame show, Glazer explained that Amendola dislocated his clavicle, which actually popped in and could have threatened Amendola's trachea and aorta. The Rams' medical staff acted quickly, putting Amendola to sleep before popping the clavicle back into place and making sure it could not dislodge again.

Glazer adds that the Rams called around the league to find a case of another player suffering a similar injury, but they could not find one. The absence of a case study for this particular injury makes it difficult for the Rams to know when Amendola might return. Though surgery is not required, it may take between four and eight weeks for the injury to heal to the point where Amendola can play.

Y! SPORTS

Ya I guess that one wasn't a freak injury. btw he only missed 3 games because of that injury

Also his 2011 injury is blown out of proportion, suffered it in week 1 and had the injury reserve return rule been in effect then he wouldn't have missed the whole season.


But nothing is said about his first two season where he had no injuries.

 

[naF staP]

Ya I guess that one wasn't a freak injury. btw he only missed 3 games because of that injury

Also his 2011 injury is blown out of proportion, suffered it in week 1 and had the injury reserve return rule been in effect then he wouldn't have missed the whole season.


But nothing is said about his first two season where he had no injuries.

He is an unproven player that played 12 out of his last 32 games due to injuries. He has played the entire season 1 out of 4 seasons. You bring him in to replace a proven, dependable player and you don't question this move? All the facts are there to show how risky of a move it is.

 

[naF staP]

You realize that you contradict yourself post-to-post, right? So they should keep Welker and screw over other players with new deals (like Denver with Dumervil)?

You talk about the talent to win the SB, but they've had that talent in Welker, according to you, and yet...

If they wanted him, of course they could have kept him - that's always true - but at what price? That's the bottom line, because it's a zero-sum game. Paying one player more means paying someone else less with a hard cap.

It's just a calculated business move, on both parts. I wish Welker well, but not too well, and sure, after more than a decade of watching meaningful games in January and February, I'll have a little more of that kool-aid.

Denver might be the only serious contender to New England in the AFC this year, and look at what they just did to one of their stars, first by demanding he take a $4 million straight pay cut - not a restructure, but a pay cut! - then having the whole thing get all messed up with technicalities. If I was a fan of the Broncos, I'd be mightily pissed about that, you bet.

But with the Welker/Patriots thing? Meh, enough blame to go around between the three involved - Pats, agent, player. It's just business.

I don't get what you are saying. Either you are over thinking your remark or you are really trying to dig up something, anything to make it look like I am contradicting myself. Um, ok!! Well done! But it didn't work. :rocker: