Feelings on Bill O'Brien so far?

[venecol]

Find a new pastime, you're wasting bandwidth here. Without Brady or Zappe to cling to you are left with hating Mac & BB and that's a pathetic way to be a "fan."

Lighten up Francis. It's ok if you choose to take this "entertainment" too seriously or want to get wrapped up in it. I won't but it is entertaining to see you get so triggered by an obvious joke.

 

[RodThePat]

Better situationally (much better in the redzone, slightly better on third down), the operation looks more professional, fewer pre snap penalties, but at the end of the day they're averaging a whole yard per play fewer than last year and only four teams get worse production offensively on a per snap basis. Designing an offense considering the sieve that has been the OL doesn't help, but it just looks like an offense that has a sieve for an OL, and not really an offense that has managed to scheme around their sieve of an OL. I dislike the shotgun focus, I dislike that he seems to want to have Mac playing point guard without much in the way of creative motion and no play action or under center game. I mean, when you throw the ball 45 times and only 4 of those are under center, you're giving the defense a bigger run/pass tell than the presence of the fullback in a McDaniels offense. I just think they don't have the personnel to get chunks without doing stuff to fool the opponent, and if they don't do that, they're moving the ball 5 yards a pop and hoping there are no penalties, no drops and no sacks, nothing can go wrong for a drive to be successful. I don't think that's sustainable with this crew.

The passing game they are currently running scares no one. Not a single team will play the Patriots with any fear of being cut apart. They'll funnel everything inside and challenge you to complete 8 passes in a row to get into scoring range and live with it any day of the week. The QB can't challenge the sidelines from the pocket (especially not the right sidelines), the receivers can't create with the ball in their hands, the ball has to come out so fast and so early in the down that no coverage is pulled, so whoever gets it in the middle of the field is tackled immediately. The running game just sucks period, no one can block up front and Stevenson to me seems incredibly sluggish to start the season and Zeke looks washed as a runner. The personnel sucks and might be a bigger problem than the play calling, but it isn't pretty right now. I think a lot of people are getting fooled by passing volume that's a product of an exceedingly high number of attempts that are completed very short on average. This isn't an efficient or explosive offense right now. The equation could change completely if the OL gets right, but in its current state it's just run a of the mill bad offense. I mean, they are getting 1.3 yards per dropback fewer than the Cam Newton offense right now.

 

[Tunescribe]

Lighten up Francis. It's ok if you choose to take this "entertainment" too seriously or want to get wrapped up in it. I won't but it is entertaining to see you get so triggered by an obvious joke.

Oh, you were just joking? So you didn't mean any of that post, just being juvenile again. Thanks for clarifying. We'll take your word for it and let it go.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

As irrelevant as any other offensive coordinator.

 

[Tunescribe]

As irrelevant as any other offensive coordinator.

You don't think OCs are relevant? Matt Patricia would appreciate hearing that.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

You don't think OCs are relevant? Matt Patricia would appreciate hearing that.

Not very

 

[Ollie]

Not very

Care to explain why?

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Care to explain why?

For starters, they’ve asked Vegas oddsmakers how much a head coach is worth (Belichick) and it’s less than 7 points for an entire season. That’s less than half a point per game. Coordinators are much more negligible. Odds do not even move fractions of points.

Empirically listening to talking heads and fans talk about coordinators is a laughable exercise and full of confirmation bias. Rarely do these guys make a difference over a season. The QB and the players are the total output. Seen this so many times with QB so and so and how a new OC is going to “get the most out of him” and it’s the same result. And when there’s a great young QB the coordinator gets a lot of credit and then fails to replicate the results.

If you look at the NE offensive coordinators, the quarterbacks they have here, and what they’ve done elsewhere, you’ll see the light. It’s a whole lot of smoke.

 

[IcyPatriot]

O'Brien .... given **** to produce an offense.

 

[Pape]

I noticed that so far in the first two weeks, people have varying opinions on Mac, Belichick, and the team as a whole.

Some blame Mac for not being able to actually be clutch and win the Pats a game (instead of just not being the reason the lost). Others are pointing more blame to Belichick for the roster construction (WR), some the o-line, and others, like me, will blame all three.

But I noticed that Bill O'Brien isn't getting much discussion. My opinion? O'Brien has been a little disappointing.

I don't have the data on me, but he's been calling a lot of screen passes, and at times theyve been blown up quickly. Although the O-line plays a role in the amount of screens being called. But beyond that, there's not much creative playcalling. It feels like that have 1 or 2 good Scripted drives to start the game, but beyond that, there's no other creative playcalls that can elevate the talent or squeeze enough out of them.

what do you guys think?

the offense is noticeably better.

but they are still making too many stupid mistakes.

 

[Tunescribe]

For starters, they’ve asked Vegas oddsmakers how much a head coach is worth (Belichick) and it’s less than 7 points for an entire season. That’s less than half a point per game. Coordinators are much more negligible. Odds do not even move fractions of points.

Empirically listening to talking heads and fans talk about coordinators is a laughable exercise and full of confirmation bias. Rarely do these guys make a difference over a season. The QB and the players are the total output. Seen this so many times with QB so and so and how a new OC is going to “get the most out of him” and it’s the same result. And when there’s a great young QB the coordinator gets a lot of credit and then fails to replicate the results.

If you look at the NE offensive coordinators, the quarterbacks they have here, and what they’ve done elsewhere, you’ll see the light. It’s a whole lot of smoke.

Vegas concerns itself with game-day wagering, not the nuts and bolts of a winning program. The QB and players have to be developed and put in the right systems to maximize those talents -- it's not like the NBA where skillset essentially is defined from the start. Do you think Tom Brady or Julian Edelman would have flourished the way they did with just any NFL team? Maybe a few, but on most teams their potential wouldn't have been recognized.

Coaching in the NFL is much more important than in the NBA, where talent largely is foolproof. Yes, talent > coaching in the NFL generally speaking, but at the very top (playoff teams), superior coaching often tips the balance. Bad coaching in the NFL definitely has been known to sink talented teams.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

So "fans" can't be critical of the HC/GM or they're pathetic? That take is just plain ridiculous and is why it's difficult to do anything here other than wave pom poms.

I guess it's lucky for us that Bill is a such a genius. Pretty soon he'll turn Mac into Brady, Henry into Gronk and Sow into Thuney.

Mafi into Thuney.

 

[lancerman]

He's not inept like Patricia, but he's running an outdated philosophy that probably would work better if we had players that could execute the Pats offense from the early 2010's. Which isn't bad because at least play calls aren't egregious and ultra conservative. But he came with the same downsides and upsides I expected.

 

[Ring 6]

For starters, they’ve asked Vegas oddsmakers how much a head coach is worth (Belichick) and it’s less than 7 points for an entire season. That’s less than half a point per game. Coordinators are much more negligible. Odds do not even move fractions of points.

Empirically listening to talking heads and fans talk about coordinators is a laughable exercise and full of confirmation bias. Rarely do these guys make a difference over a season. The QB and the players are the total output. Seen this so many times with QB so and so and how a new OC is going to “get the most out of him” and it’s the same result. And when there’s a great young QB the coordinator gets a lot of credit and then fails to replicate the results.

If you look at the NE offensive coordinators, the quarterbacks they have here, and what they’ve done elsewhere, you’ll see the light. It’s a whole lot of smoke.

How would Vegas determine the value of a coach?

 

[Bruins29]

Wouldn’t a better thread tittle be “ Thoughts on BOB so far”

Feelings ??? Lol

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

How would Vegas determine the value of a coach?

By being objective, using historic examples, and logic.

 

[Tunescribe]

He's not inept like Patricia, but he's running an outdated philosophy that probably would work better if we had players that could execute the Pats offense from the early 2010's. Which isn't bad because at least play calls aren't egregious and ultra conservative. But he came with the same downsides and upsides I expected.

How has he thus far demonstrated running "an outdated philosophy"? I think you're projecting that from when he last was here, a lot of time (and varied experience on his part) has elapsed since then. From what I can tell, he's so hamstrung by personnel these first two games there's no way to tell what he brings to the table beyond the execution looking more disciplined overall vs. under Patricia.

 

[lancerman]

How has he thus far demonstrated running "an outdated philosophy"? I think you're projecting that from when he last was here, a lot of time (and varied experience on his part) has elapsed since then. From what I can tell, he's so hamstrung by personnel these first two games there's no way to tell what he brings to the table beyond the execution looking more disciplined overall vs. under Patricia.

I might be biased. Wasn't stoked on the hire.

 

[Real fan 02]

I noticed that so far in the first two weeks, people have varying opinions on Mac, Belichick, and the team as a whole.

Some blame Mac for not being able to actually be clutch and win the Pats a game (instead of just not being the reason the lost). Others are pointing more blame to Belichick for the roster construction (WR), some the o-line, and others, like me, will blame all three.

But I noticed that Bill O'Brien isn't getting much discussion. My opinion? O'Brien has been a little disappointing.

I don't have the data on me, but he's been calling a lot of screen passes, and at times theyve been blown up quickly. Although the O-line plays a role in the amount of screens being called. But beyond that, there's not much creative playcalling. It feels like that have 1 or 2 good Scripted drives to start the game, but beyond that, there's no other creative playcalls that can elevate the talent or squeeze enough out of them.

what do you guys think?

Just speaking for myself in watching the games. It feels like BOBs play calling is limited due to the offensive line. We have no play action because we can't run the ball. That is what I feel personally is the biggest detriment to us offensively right now. If the line can start creating holes for Rham and zeke then the play calling can be more expansive. The skill players are who they are at this point . Outside of DD we have no explosion on offense.

 

[XLIX]

I noticed that so far in the first two weeks, people have varying opinions on Mac, Belichick, and the team as a whole.

Some blame Mac for not being able to actually be clutch and win the Pats a game (instead of just not being the reason the lost). Others are pointing more blame to Belichick for the roster construction (WR), some the o-line, and others, like me, will blame all three.

But I noticed that Bill O'Brien isn't getting much discussion. My opinion? O'Brien has been a little disappointing.

I don't have the data on me, but he's been calling a lot of screen passes, and at times theyve been blown up quickly. Although the O-line plays a role in the amount of screens being called. But beyond that, there's not much creative playcalling. It feels like that have 1 or 2 good Scripted drives to start the game, but beyond that, there's no other creative playcalls that can elevate the talent or squeeze enough out of them.

what do you guys think?

I think a lot of Mac defenders desperately tried to establish the narrative that all his woes were Matt Patricia's fault and we would see a significant improvement once he got a real OC.

2 weeks in, I am still waiting for the improvement. They are throwing much more (perhaps because they have played almost 120 minutes of catchup) so passing yards per game is up.... however I just don't see any improvement in the QB play.