Every Little Thing May Not Be Alright

[1960Pats]

My feeling is in this league you’re always a good offseason and a softer schedule away from being a playoff team again. 2000 and 2009 proved this as those were some pretty bad teams(and the 2010 team actually had a brutal schedule) . Obviously getting better at qb is going to be the pressing issue here as a certain #12 is no longer here but draft and fa could very well solve a bulk of our issues. Have some trust in bb to build another winner now that the cap and draft order are the most favorable it’s been possibly ever in the bb era.

I agree that every year is a new start and anything is possible. I'm worried that we may lose too many of the proven players that we have to make a complete turn around.

I'm also more concerned about QB than I was before Cam arrived. If he's back then that means that Stidham is a bust. I was hoping that the kid just needed a little more seasoning.

 

[1960Pats]

I am with you. I think people are whistling past the graveyard in terms of a rebuild. I see a decent amount of "When we get a quarterback" like we are just signing a right guard to fill right in and keep chugging along. Teams spend decades looking for a QB and some people seem to think that we will just plug a guy in and be in super bowl contention again. Even if we do miraculously get a good QB we have miles to go. We need a legitimate number one receiver and at this point that will either cost a lot or be a first round pick. We also could use another complimentary receiver as well as a starting caliber NFL TE. We have had no production from that spot for two years and it shows. That in addition to how much is needed in the front seven and the fact that Gilmore is likely gone and JC does not look to be ready to be a number one. There are so many holes all over this roster that need attention that I can't see that this is a quick one year turnaround.

I think it starts with keeping the known commodities that we have and finding an adequate QB. You can win a SB without an elite QB.

 

[RodThePat]

Yes, agreed. Of course, there are many QBs who can't play. But there are many teams throughout this league who are getting decent QB play without requiring an All-Pro like Brady.

I'm talking about the Tannehills and Derek Carrs. Heck, I think BB could win with Tedy Bridgewater.

Which teams? The Titans? They have a loaded roster, a QB playing pretty well and still, whenever they play a team with a truly elite QB they'll always be at a disadvantage. Belichick could have a 10-6 season that ends with a divisional round defeat with a Teddy Bridgewater, but he sure as hell isn't winning the Super Bowl with that type of QB. So what would be the point in settling for "meh" at the position? Are you beating Patrick Mahomes on the road in January with a guy like that?

 

[1960Pats]

To me so much depends on what the final salary cap number is.

This will sound counterintuitive, but in my opinion the lower the cap, the more advantageous the situation is for the Patriots. A lower cap means less breathing room for other teams. That will lead to fewer buyers, and more cap casualties. A tighter cap places a strain on the Saints, Steelers, Packers, Rams, Chiefs, Titans and many other teams.

Until we know that final cap number (and can compare it to other teams), it's really difficult what is feasible. This 2011 free agency is going to be vastly different from what we have become accustomed to. Teams have structured contracts based on caps annually increasing by 10, 12, 15 percent. Right now it looks like there is a strong chance that may not be the case for the next three years.

The cynic in me feels like the NYFL will set the cap at a number that helps teams not playing in Foxboro. Who knows, maybe now that we're an also-ran that will change.

 

[upstater1]

Which teams? The Titans? They have a loaded roster, a QB playing pretty well and still, whenever they play a team with a truly elite QB they'll always be at a disadvantage. Belichick could have a 10-6 season that ends with a divisional round defeat with a Teddy Bridgewater, but he sure as hell isn't winning the Super Bowl with that type of QB. So what would be the point in settling for "meh" at the position? Are you beating Patrick Mahomes on the road in January with a guy like that?

Tannehill had nothing to do with the Titans collapse against KC. Tannehill did his job. More than enough to win. The D collapsed.

You do have a good point about the Super Bowl though. The 49ers loss was largely Jimmy G's fault.

 

[1960Pats]

But this is harder to say when Brady and Manning account for more than 50% of the Super Bowl victories in those years.

That is all world talent that won't be easy to reproduce. In other words, if not for Brady winning 6, maybe Jake Delhomme takes one home, or Rex Grossman, or Jared Goff. These guys maybe are all Champs if Brady or Peyton don't show up.

This is the same argument I used recently to defend Phillip Rivers. If he wasn't facing so many great teams and/or great QBs he might have won a title or two.

 

[1960Pats]

Tannehill had nothing to do with the Titans collapse against KC. Tannehill did his job. More than enough to win. The D collapsed.

You do have a good point about the Super Bowl though. The 49ers loss was largely Jimmy G's fault.

I watched a pretty good analysis on the 49ers loss in the SB that put the blame on the coaching for having Kittle in as a blocker instead of on pass routes during key plays in the 4th quarter.

 

[VrabelJr]

To me so much depends on what the final salary cap number is.

This will sound counterintuitive, but in my opinion the lower the cap, the more advantageous the situation is for the Patriots. A lower cap means less breathing room for other teams. That will lead to fewer buyers, and more cap casualties. A tighter cap places a strain on the Saints, Steelers, Packers, Rams, Chiefs, Titans and many other teams.

Until we know that final cap number (and can compare it to other teams), it's really difficult what is feasible. This 2011 free agency is going to be vastly different from what we have become accustomed to. Teams have structured contracts based on caps annually increasing by 10, 12, 15 percent. Right now it looks like there is a strong chance that may not be the case for the next three years.

This. The salary cap is everything next year. A low cap will have all kinds of chain effects, both for re-toolers like us and young up and comers with mostly rookie deals like KC, Buffalo, etc.

 

[Ring 6]

I had to go back and re-read what I wrote to make sure that I wasn't arguing about anything. I wasn't.

Then we have the large amount of players who could walk. If the Pats stay with their lowball approach we could end up losing quite a few good players that would create even more holes to fill.

 

[203Pat]

I think it starts with keeping the known commodities that we have and finding an adequate QB. You can win a SB without an elite QB.

I don't know what are known commodities are at this point. McCourty, Slater, and Hightower if he comes back with a few of the last two draft classes thrown in? As far as the offense goes there really isn't anyone I wouldn't want to lose outside of the offensive line.

 

[RodThePat]

Tannehill had nothing to do with the Titans collapse against KC. Tannehill did his job. More than enough to win. The D collapsed.

You do have a good point about the Super Bowl though. The 49ers loss was largely Jimmy G's fault.

He threw for 209 yards and the Titans scored 7 points in the second half. When the Chiefs sorted themselves out and began scoring at will, they couldn't keep up. Tannehill is just good enough to play well and make the final score a respectable loss against an elite QB in the playoffs, not much more than that.

 

[p8ryts]

Tannehill had nothing to do with the Titans collapse against KC. Tannehill did his job. More than enough to win. The D collapsed.

You do have a good point about the Super Bowl though. The 49ers loss was largely Jimmy G's fault.

Jimmy missed a couple passes in the 4th quarter. Their fabulous defense had a 10 point lead and couldn't hold it. One miss was he didn't see Kittle, the other was the overthrow to Sanders. That is not a high percentage throw. It just seems popular to blame Jimmy G. Too easy.

 

[1960Pats]

I don't know what are known commodities are at this point. McCourty, Slater, and Hightower if he comes back with a few of the last two draft classes thrown in? As far as the offense goes there really isn't anyone I wouldn't want to lose outside of the offensive line.

It's difficult to tell for sure.
On offense I'd like to see them keep anyone who'll contribute to the running game. They're going to need a strong running game without a top QB.
On defense I'd like to see them keep both Gilmore and Jackson if possible. I'm not high on J McCourty but he and his brother are probably a package deal.
Slater isn't costly but Hightower might be done.
I thought the DL was okay except when they decided to go with only 3 rushers. They seemed to get burned a lot with that strategy.

 

[203Pat]

It's difficult to tell for sure.
On offense I'd like to see them keep anyone who'll contribute to the running game. They're going to need a strong running game without a top QB.
On defense I'd like to see them keep both Gilmore and Jackson if possible. I'm not high on J McCourty but he and his brother are probably a package deal.
Slater isn't costly but Hightower might be done.
I thought the DL was okay except when they decided to go with only 3 rushers. They seemed to get burned a lot with that strategy.

I would really like to see Andrews back on the O-line since I assume Thuney is going to get a big deal somewhere. Keep that offensive line solidified and pound the ball but I do think we will be moving on from White so I wonder if Taylor is their satellite back of the future or if they plan on drafting someone.

As for Gilmore staying I still think it is unlikely but I like the idea Howe presented with signing Gilmore to a short extension then putting a second round tender on Jackson. At worst we would lose Jackson but gain a much needed second rounder or keep them both and see if it looks like Jackson could ever be the number 1.

I am under the impression that all the opt outs (the bigger names at least) are going to retire. Cannon, Chung, and Hightower have all been around a while, won multiple rings, signed multiple deals, and dealt with a lot of injuries so it wouldn't surprise me if they all called it quits.

As for the D line I would love to see Guy back and I wouldn't be shocked if he is a guy they "overpay". Similar to McCourty's deal a few years back give him a little more than what is expected for his leadership and locker room presence as well as the fact he is our best lineman. I am hoping for a space eater in the middle to shore up the run and that Winovich and Uche can develop as pass rushers.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I agree that every year is a new start and anything is possible. I'm worried that we may lose too many of the proven players that we have to make a complete turn around.

I'm also more concerned about QB than I was before Cam arrived. If he's back then that means that Stidham is a bust. I was hoping that the kid just needed a little more seasoning.

the roster was similarly concerning in 2000 and 2009 but bb turned both into contenders rather quick. I understand the concern at qb, that is my top worry to but i am hopeful. Think of all the afc teams just in the past few years that have landed their guy - kc, buffalo, lac, balt, cle, cincy, Ten, Hou... its not a given by any means but the talent has been out there, have faith in bb to find our guy.

 

[1960Pats]

the roster was similarly concerning in 2000 and 2009 but bb turned both into contenders rather quick. I understand the concern at qb, that is my top worry to but i am hopeful. Think of all the afc teams just in the past few years that have landed their guy - kc, buffalo, lac, balt, cle, cincy, Ten, Hou... its not a given by any means but the talent has been out there, have faith in bb to find our guy.

2001 was the best. Bill picked up a lot of key FAs and turned that team around overnight.
The problem in 2009 was that Brady had been lost the year before when we had our top defense on it's last legs.
This year I'm hopeful because we may be in a good place with the cap compared to many other teams. The only issue with FAs is that we aren't the draw that we were with Brady
QB could be a real problem though. I'm still hoping that Stidham will come around. If not we'll have to spend some capital on a proven QB not named Cam.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

2001 was the best. Bill picked up a lot of key FAs and turned that team around overnight.
The problem in 2009 was that Brady had been lost the year before when we had our top defense on it's last legs.
This year I'm hopeful because we may be in a good place with the cap compared to many other teams. The only issue with FAs is that we aren't the draw that we were with Brady
QB could be a real problem though. I'm still hoping that Stidham will come around. If not we'll have to spend some capital on a proven QB not named Cam.

This year is setting up alot like the 01 offseason with all the cap space , but this year Bb wont even need to be as good on the bargain fa wire since im hoping alot of good talent will be cap casualties. Most of the holes i feel will be very filllable other than of course qb

 

[Wax Frog]

 

[upstater1]

Jimmy missed a couple passes in the 4th quarter. Their fabulous defense had a 10 point lead and couldn't hold it. One miss was he didn't see Kittle, the other was the overthrow to Sanders. That is not a high percentage throw. It just seems popular to blame Jimmy G. Too easy.

I was watching him very closely. He turtled a lot. He was like a deer in the headlights. It wasn't so much his throws as the fact he seemed frozen in fear.

 

[1960Pats]

I was watching him very closely. He turtled a lot. He was like a deer in the headlights. It wasn't so much his throws as the fact he seemed frozen in fear.

I wonder if the Alonzo cheap shot that he took here has influenced him in any way?