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Eric Allen (NFL Live) Rates Patriots Secondary Best in League

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Same can be said for Rodney.

In the previous post I mentioned him and Rodney have been injured.

Here's what they've both done since 2004:

Rodney:

2005 - 3 games played, 15 total tackles, 1 PD's
2006 - 10 games played 49 total tackles, 1 sack, 1 INT, 2 PD's

Darius:
2005 - 2 games played, 6 total tackles..
2006 - 10 games played, 48 games played, 3 PD's

As for their 2004 seasons:
Rodney: 16 games played, 138 total tackles, 3 sacks, 2 INT's, 6 PD's
Darius: 16 games played, 87 total tackles, 5 INT's, 2 PD's
 
In the previous post I mentioned him and Rodney have been injured.

Here's what they've both done since 2004:

Rodney:

2005 - 3 games played, 15 total tackles, 1 PD's
2006 - 10 games played 49 total tackles, 1 sack, 1 INT, 2 PD's

Darius:
2005 - 2 games played, 6 total tackles..
2006 - 10 games played, 48 games played, 3 PD's

As for their 2004 seasons:
Rodney: 16 games played, 138 total tackles, 3 sacks, 2 INT's, 6 PD's
Darius: 16 games played, 87 total tackles, 5 INT's, 2 PD's

Rodney is definitely the better player. What I meant was that just because a player has been injured a lot of the past two season. Harrison and Darius are similar stories. When healthy Rodney has still played very well (which is why I am excited about him coming back this year).
 
Denver has good cornerbacks but their safeties don't impress me at all. Jacksonville has Mathis, Darius, and Nelson. They have big names, but I think they don't always live up to their potential.

You don't like John Lynch? I do think he's been on a slight decline lately, though. I think the Broncos have the leagues best CB in Bailey, but I don't think Bly is on the type of level people seem to think he is. It seemed funny when people were talking about Bly not fitting into the new system in Detriot, when he's basically played in a tampa 2 system for most of his career, and they are running a tampa 2 defense in Detriot. I really just think he's started to decline, and he's using the regime change as a scape goat.
 
Rodney is definitely the better player. What I meant was that just because a player has been injured a lot of the past two season. Harrison and Darius are similar stories. When healthy Rodney has still played very well (which is why I am excited about him coming back this year).

I know, but my point was that while Darius is good he's been even more injured than Rodney the past two seasons, and Rodney's also produced more the past two season than Darius.
 
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You don't like John Lynch? I do think he's been on a slight decline lately, though. I think the Broncos have the leagues best CB in Bailey, but I don't think Bly is on the type of level people seem to think he is. It seemed funny when people were talking about Bly not fitting into the new system in Detriot, when he's basically played in a tampa 2 system for most of his career, and they are running a tampa 2 defense in Detriot. I really just think he's started to decline, and he's using the regime change as a scape goat.

I don't like Lynch at all. I think he is one if the most overrated players in the league.
 
The Patriots might not be the best secondary (I do like Baltimore's, Jacksonville's etc) but they are certainly top five.

How can you not be happy with a depth chart like this?

Rodney Harrison
Ellis Hobbs
Asante Samuel
Eugene Wilson
Brandon Meriweather
Randall Gay
Chad Scott
Artrell Hawkins
Tory James
Mike Richardson
James Sanders
Mel Mitchell
Willie Andrews
Eddie Jackson

(By the way, I'm not listing it in terms of depth, just simply the players on the roster.)

You forgot Troy Brown.
 
ASANTE is solid, could be something special, but it's been one year. (Eric Allen overrates him, IMO)

RODNEY is awesome, slowed a bit probably, and injury-prone. I love him but...(Eric Allen overrates him, IMO)

WILSON might be good and solid, can't count on him (most Pats fans see him as needing to prove a lot to consider he's part of an "elite" secondary)

MERIWEATHER looks like a very good player (some of you here underrate him, IMO)

HOBBS put together a very solid Sophomore year, especially given his injury (solidly underrated on this board, IMO)

TORY JAMES is a JAG scrub.

ARTRELL HAWKINS is a JAG scrub who gave us a year and a half of solid play and is slipping, IMO.

JAMES SANDERS is a good solid young player, who showed a little something last year. I like him. Could start when Rodney goes.


OVERALL, I think this is a good, solid group. The #1 secondary? I doubt it, but up there in the top 5-7, for sure - especially with the front 7.
 
Shocking!

There are a lot of assumptions about this secondary if you are going to rate them #1 in the NFL. First of all, you have to assume that Samuel isn't just a one year wonder and he won't hold out or get traded. Second, the admitted assumption that Rodney Harrison will stay healthy. Third, Eric Allen throws Tory James out there as if that means much of anything, which he assumes it does (must be because they played together). Fourth, that Meriweather actually plays and plays well.

I'm not going to knock Hobbs by saying that he is a nickle corner because so was Assante Samuel. Hobbs is the underdog in the secondary. He won't get any respect behind Samuel, Meriweather is a first round pick and Hobbs is chilling behind the rest of accomplished individuals in the secondary (ie Harrison, James and Wilson). If Hobbs (and even James Sanders) step up half as much as Samuel did last year, this could be a great secondary.

All that said, I'll take McAllister and Ed Reed or the combo of Dre Bly and Champ Bailey. Crap, Bailey and the Pats' Hawkins could make a top five secondary.

FIRST-what is your point?
LAST-the same assumptions can be made about EVERY secondary in the league.
 
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ASANTE is solid, could be something special, but it's been one year. (Eric Allen overrates him, IMO)

RODNEY is awesome, slowed a bit probably, and injury-prone. I love him but...(Eric Allen overrates him, IMO)

WILSON might be good and solid, can't count on him (most Pats fans see him as needing to prove a lot to consider he's part of an "elite" secondary)

MERIWEATHER looks like a very good player (some of you here underrate him, IMO)

HOBBS put together a very solid Sophomore year, especially given his injury (solidly underrated on this board, IMO)

TORY JAMES is a JAG scrub.

ARTRELL HAWKINS is a JAG scrub who gave us a year and a half of solid play and is slipping, IMO.

JAMES SANDERS is a good solid young player, who showed a little something last year. I like him. Could start when Rodney goes.


OVERALL, I think this is a good, solid group. The #1 secondary? I doubt it, but up there in the top 5-7, for sure - especially with the front 7.

Tory James isn't what he used to be, but he's at least a decent and durable corner, who's probably going to be a solid backup for NE. Hawkins is washed up as a CB, but he's a good backup Safety, who can start if needed. I agree with you on Meriweather and Hobbs.
 
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Tory James isn't what he used to be, but he's at least a decent and durable corner, who's probably going to be a solid backup for NE. Hawkins is washed up as a CB, but he's a good backup Safety, who can start if needed. I agree with you on Meriweather and Hobbs.
Hawkins can start, but I'm not sure he has the legs to do it well over an extended spell. In addition to PS23's list:

Gay: Needs to reestablish himself, but did okay as a rookie.

Scott: Excellent situational player who, like Hawkins, can start for short periods.

Andrews: Gunner extraordinary who was my pick for emergency rookie to start and play well (but thankfully wasn't needed last season). I'm looking forward to seeing where he goes from here, I'm thinking he steps it up another notch or two.

Spann: Quite a good Gunner (I **Heart** his game after Tennessee & San Diego, way to throw your body around), he was a decent pick-off artist in NFLE last year before making the Practice Squad and then the roster, I'm looking to see his game take a step forward too.

Tory James: Pick-off artist with starting experience, I believe the big knock is gambling/free lancing, it will be interesting to see if there is an improvement in his field discipline under BB.

Mel Mitchell, Eddie Jackson, Rashad Baker: Beyond Special Teams I don't know what role they will be fighting to fill, we'll see.

Gemara Williams: Ballhawk, one of the NCAA leaders in 2005 at passes defensed, he obviously is good at finding the ball in the air, can he take it to another level like Asante did?

Mike Richardson, Waju Anam: Starters from major programs who have some unique athletic tools.

As far as the Wilson bashing, horse hockey, he's an excellent Free Safety. I'm not going to knock a third year player who was trying to carry a secondary in flux for 2005, just because Rodney could do it in 2004 doesn't mean the relative youngster was going to pull the same rabbit out of the hat in an even more challenging environment. Folks angry about plays in the Meadowlands last year need to remember he was playing Strong Safety that day and had veteran help missing play-makers Coles and Cotchery that day - I've seen Rodney miss on plays like that too, he just didn't have a guy with a bum knee playing backstop behind him.

I don't know Eric Allen from beans, but since he used some statistics (10 passing TDs in 2006) to judge the relative worth of the various secondaries, I'm not going to consider him too far off the Reservation. The Pats won the secondary comparison to Indy and SD in that link I put up early this morning, so that's at least two sources who see strengths in the NE secondary. Let's hope for an injury free 2007 so they can dominate.
 
This is madness. We have no true shutdown corner, our other corner is really just a nickelback, we have no heir apperaent to our injury-prone strong safety, Eugene Wilson looks lost out there, and Artrell Hawkins is too old.

Allen is clearly overrating Meriweather.

did you miss the part about a secondary that only allowed 10 passing TDs adding talent and getting better.
Who is the best is decided by how they play on the field, not by name recognition.

I dont know what a shut down corner is, but we have one of the top 20 in Samuel. Calling Hobbs a nickelback indicates you either havent watched games or dont know what you are looking at when you do.
James Sanders played a good part of that 10 TD pass season as the replacement, hence heir appraent to Harrison, and I think I may remember us drafting a safety in round 1 also. I suppose the Wilson comment was just the need for another sentence to pile on to your heap. Hawkins is our 5th safety. Year its hard to have a good secondary unless that 5th safety is young.

Why is Allen overrating Meriweather? Why would you use CLEARLY in the statement when he says having a first round pick in the secondary will make it better?

You should edit this one and try again.
 
I see Tory James as Terrell buckley 6 years later.
Buckley did a good job for us as a nickle/dime guy, had many of the same strengths/weaknesses/concerns as James brings, and played within the system.
I think James will be a valuable 3rd or 4th corner, that will be in a position to play to his strengths and hide his weaknesses.
I wouldn't want him as my 16 game starting corner, but I can think of a lot worse things to have than a veteran starting corner who is probably best rated as very good at some aspects of being a corner and very questionable at others playing 15 snaps a game.
 
Give me the best front seven and I'll take my chances with the secondary. Seems like they did alright in '03 and '04 without the "best" secondary.

They had, far and away, the best secondary in the game in '03.
 
They had, far and away, the best secondary in the game in '03.
You are right about that. But the 2006 performed almost as well in the regualr season as the 03 unit did.
The problem is in the AFCC in 2006, we were playing without half our defensive guys and in 2003 we were reasonably healthy.
 
They had, far and away, the best secondary in the game in '03.

No kidding

Ty Law
Rodney Harrison
Tryone Poole
Eugene Wilson
Asante Samuel
Terrell Buckley
 
if are secondrary is number 1 or number 10 at the end of the season who cares the fact is that are secondrary will be holding the lombardi trophy will all the other will be home :rocker: :rocker:
 
if are secondrary is number 1 or number 10 at the end of the season who cares the fact is that are secondrary will be holding the lombardi trophy will all the other will be home :rocker: :rocker:

Just the fact that it is good enough to be in the argument with the DL, LB, QB, RB, WR, TE, and OL we have says this team should consider nothing less than a SB championship a successful season.
 
Is this the same guy that said Hobbs was "too old" during "state of the franchise?"
 
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