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End of Season thoughts after a few days of reflection

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by brdmaverick, Jan 7, 2020.

  1. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Serious question here, as I'm not in the mood to go hunting down the answer:


    When is the last time that the Patriots lost a playoff game and there wasn't at least one very dubious coaching decision?
     
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  2. Quest4SevenHomie

    Quest4SevenHomie Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I'm still trying to figure out why James White wasn't used more in the passing game? Why wasn't he converted to a WR when we knew of the trouble Sanu, Harry and Dorsett were having? Edelman was constantly double teamed and couldn't get separation. So why not take the heat of him and use White?
     
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  3. brdmaverick

    brdmaverick PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It has to be 2009 in the blowout by the Ravens.

    Edit: Perhaps that was too much of a kneejerk reaction. Let's go through the prior losses.

    2017: Benching Malcolm Butler
    2015: To kick a FG or not kick a FG on 4th down? (I agreed with call, but it was a controversial decision)
    2013: Throwing deep passes to Matthew Slater? (puke)
    2012: hmmmm, can't think of anything here
    2011: can't think of anything here either
    2010: Benching Welker for a quarter over some media remarks. C'mon man, it's Wes Friggin Welker!
     
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  4. QuantumMechanic

    QuantumMechanic Burn it all down! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He was benched for one series in the first quarter. That's not even close to why they lost. The weird, Andy Reid-like tempo in the 4th quarter of the game is much more a reason. And wasn't there some bizarre punt play (a questionable fake?) in that game?
     
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  5. 102 Pat

    102 Pat Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Well said!
     
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  6. captain stone

    captain stone Pro Bowl Player

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    "Wah wah wah...over the last 10/20 years...wah wah wah...spoiled rotten and then some...wah wah wah...blessed to even debate what went wrong...wah wah wah..."

    Hey cheerleaders: this thread is about end of Season thoughts, not end of last 10/20 years or how lucky we should consider ourselves thoughts.
     
  7. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Pro Bowl Player

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    Fine be miserable. Knock yourself out. Sorry if some of us aren't in your personal pitty party. You reflect the way you want and ill reflect the way want. I'm good. If you're this miserable now, good luck trying to be satisfied over the next 20 years
     
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  8. Ring 6

    Ring 6 PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

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    Depends upon your definition of dubious. Arguably every loss has a dubious coaching decision if you expand the definition.
     
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  9. micronin127

    micronin127 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My end of season thoughts always drift towards the construction of next year's roster. I really liked this team, thought we had something special on defense through half the season. We did have a great secondary and some versatile players. I think that teams that are really dedicated to a power running game like Ravens and Titans created some mismatches against us. Chiefs had an advantage against us with Kelce for sure as Chung's play went downhill as the season wore on possibly related to his health and age. Covering backs out of backfield and TEs over the middle was difficult. Miami ran a ton of pick plays and play action and picked on our S/LB in coverage as well as having a good matchup against Gilmore with Davante Parker.

    So, mind drifting to next year based on players currently under contract:
    CB Stephon Gilmore, J.C. Jackson, Jonathan Jones, Joejuan Williams, Jason McCourty, D’Angelo Ross
    * Good deep group. Joejuan Williams has the height to cover tall receivers and possibly TEs as long depending on his strength. McCourty may be a cap casualty regardless of Devin's decision on retirement.
    S Patrick Chung, Duron Harmon, Terrence Brooks, Malik Gant
    * An older group. A cohesive group. Devin McCourty can still play, but he doesn't make you younger. Expect a few additions here. A safety who can both cover TEs and provide run support dropping into the box. Some intimidation in this group without crossing the line with contact out-of-bounds or after the whistle or to the head of defenseless receivers.
    LB Dont’a Hightower, Ja’Whuan Bentley
    * Hightower is near the end. Bentley needs to keep improving. Need some speed here. Need coverage skills at this position.
    DT Lawrence Guy, Adam Butler (RFA), Byron Cowart
    * I consider RFA's to be part of the team, especially Butler based on his play and his draft status (UDFA). They have to give him at least a 2nd round tender to protect themselves and that will dissuade other teams. Need more at this position. We miss what Wilfork used to bring, but those guys are pretty rare. We've gotten by with players like Alan Branch, Vincent Valentine. This position needs a few additions.
    DE/EDGE John Simon, Chase Winovich, Derek Rivers, Deatrich Wise, Keionta Davis (ERFA)
    * Winovich needs to make a big stride from first to second year. Simon was OK. Wise had issue with penalties, especially hands to the face probably because he's so tall and plays upright. Rivers and Davis probably don't make the team. Need a few players here as well. Unclear if 2020 is a good year to flip the balance from 4-3 to 3-4 but this position and DT have to be developed as a unit that is capable of playing multiple schemes.
    QB Jarrett Stidham, Cody Kessler
    * I really want to believe the Stidham hype, but if Brady doesn't re-sign with the team then our approach at other positions changes and we let go more veterans to commit to more youth.
    T Isaiah Wynn, Marcus Cannon, Korey Cunningham, Yodny Cajuste
    * Cannon is under contract for two more years and played hurt and with sever flue one game. He's at least our swing tackle for the next two years. Wynn has only played 8 games in 2 years. This is like his year 1-2 transition so hopefully he makes a big stride too. Cunningham and Cajuste are unknowns to me, but the team knows what they have. I expect the team to prioritize offensive line regardless of whether Brady returns, you must have an above average offensive line to execute consistently.
    G Shaq Mason, Hjalte Forholdt, Jermaine Eluemunor (RFA)
    * Thuney will be a big loss, though I hope they offer him good money. If they were going to offer him $10 million and could cut some other replaceable veterans to up their offer another $3-4 million a year he is one of the teams few All-Pros. Put me down as in favor of extending ourselves for Joe Thuney.
    C David Andrews
    * Can't believe that I consider James Ferentz a priority to re-sign. Karras too if you can do it cheaply. We need to have at least 3 players on the roster able to start at center. Not sure if Froholdt can be counted on as the third layer of depth, but drafting a player like Tyler Biadasz, Wisconsin would make me feel better.
    TE Matt LaCosse, Ryan Izzo
    * Wow. No mismatches in the passing game. No dominant run blockers. Would be better off with an extra tackle. Hope we can add multiple players at this position.
    WR Julian Edelman, Mohamed Sanu, N’Keal Harry, Jakobi Meyers
    * Edelman is a warrior, but he takes a ton of abuse and it added up this year. Meyers has potential. Harry flashed a few times and needs to take a big stride, the Chiefs game where he scored a TD only to be ruled out-of-bounds was an eye popping play. He can be a powerful receiver. Sanu had an ankle sprain and was dropped into a complicated offense mid-season. I am not ruling him out either. That said, a true #1 receiver is the straw that stirs the drink. They don't grow on trees. You either have to reserve cap space for an acquisition like Odell Beckham and then put up with him, or you need to consider trading up in the draft to get an impact player. This year it's a tossup between Jerry Jeudy, Alambama and CeeDee Lamb, Oklahoma for first receiver off the board. And after that there are still a lot of great WRs with 1st round grades. I want one that has great speed and good route running. Honestly, who on the above list can get deep? Chiefs have Tyreek Hill and Mecole Hardman, we need at least one receiver with elite speed.
    RB James White, Sony Michel, Rex Burkhead, Brandon Bolden, Damien Harris
    * Honestly not a bad group overall. I think that lack of a FB and lack of blocking TEs, and offensive line injuries led to inconsistent execution.
    FB James Develin, Jakob Johnson
    * Who knows. Everyone wants them to come back healthy, but they are officially comeback players and fans don't have access to medical information. We need a FB. We may be all set.
    ST Justin Bethel, Brandon King
    * Really good start here. Add in Bolden too. Maybe Slater and Ebner get re-signed. This could be an area where we give an opportunity to an UDFA to free up some cap dollars for Thuney.
    Specialists
    K - Stephen Gostkowski, P - Jake Bailey, LS - Joe Cardona, PR - Gunner Olszewski
    * Kicker position in 2019 was like drummers for Spinal Tap. They kept exploding in a cloud of dust. It's Gostkowski, Nugent, Forbath, Folk - twice with an emergency appendectomy in between. Maybe Folk is the guy. Maybe Gostkowski can return to form. Punter was OK, a little shaky in the playoffs possibly nerves. LS is awesome. PR must be durable enough and also would be best if he could play a position, can Gunner be a WR too?
     
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  10. Scotty

    Scotty On the Game Day Roster

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    Thanks for a great breakdown , plenty to think about
     
  11. 102 Pat

    102 Pat Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Thanks for the dislike, apologies for having a rational thought...so to appease you "This team sucks, what have they done for me lately, me, me, me"
     
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  12. captain stone

    captain stone Pro Bowl Player

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    Yeah that's the thing, the thought wasn't rational based on the OP.
     
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  13. aluminum seats

    aluminum seats Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    It’s interesting how much results drive our perceptions. A couple of things go differently in that game, the patriots coach and execute better, they win. Not to mention the Miami game. Then who knows what happens.

    It’s sort of like the perception of Welker versus Edelman. Edelman catches that pass, good chance the Pats win. But he didn’t. But he’s considered clutch because of past wins. Welker dropped a (much harder) pass but the Pats lost and he never got his Super Bowl, so…

    It’s easier for us to get over losses if we tell ourselves the patriots weren’t close, but the reality is they were.
     
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  14. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's easy to lie to ourselves and pretend that the Patriots were close, but the reality is they weren't.
     
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  15. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Pro Bowl Player

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    They were close to winning a wild card gsme yes. But being able to beat 4 consecutive very good teams, with each opponent getting tougher, without slipping up and losing one? When we also lost the 3 toughest regular season games we had? Would have been a major stretch dude. Possible with brady and bb, yes. Anything is. But realistic? Probably not. With a good offseason to address our obvious holes on offense, definitely.
     
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  16. brdmaverick

    brdmaverick PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    ah yes, the Pat Chung punt fake
     
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  17. aluminum seats

    aluminum seats Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Ok
     
  18. captain stone

    captain stone Pro Bowl Player

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    Close to winning another SB? Probably, if not likely, No...

    Close to winning the WC game? Hell Yes; in fact they absolutely Should Have won:

    If Terry Brooks had Not been in coverage and instead had been one of the blitzers in the Double DB Blitz call on 3rd/10...

    If Brady had seen how crazy-light the box was on 1st/goal from the one-yard-line and called his own number...

    Now it becomes 17-10 Pats at halftime...

    If Slack Mason hadn't committed that stupid Ineligible Man Downfield penalty, then it's 1st down at the Titties 25...

    Now it becomes 20-10 Pats after 3 quarters...

    Then, after the Harmon INT, if that fecking azzhole Dorsett had come back to the sticks on 3rd/3 when his coverage followed Edelman instead of staying with him, then that's an Easy 1st down and they are practically within FG range again...

    Now it's 23-10 Pats with < 10 minutes left in the 4th quarter and the Titties' running game has to be all but abandoned...

    The drop by Edelman on their penultimate drive was, of course, completely Inexcusable and Unforgivable, and should eliminate him from Any further discussion of being elected to the HOF...Danny Playoffs would've made that catch, and then some.
     
  19. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    They were close to winning that Miami game, too. But let's not all go around pretending that this team had any chance in hell, beyond "OMG! It's a freakin' miracle!", of winning 3 games on the road and then the Super Bowl, by the end of the season. Edelman's injury, combined with the utter failures of Sanu and Harry made that impossible.

    • IF Edelman were healthy
    • IF Sanu hadn't stunk on ice
    • IF Harry hadn't been terrible when playing
    • IF Dorsett hadn't fallen into the dugout
    • IF Meyers hadn't failed to learn the offense sufficiently
    • IF the TEs didn't suck
    • IF Karras were a better center
    • IF Wynn had played better
    • IF Cannon had played better
    • IF Mason had played better
    • IF Michel were a better running back
    • IF Brady had been healthier
    • IF the head coach hadn't been making bad decisions during the games
    • IF the defense at the end of the season had been as good as many thought it was in the beginning of the year


    It's just too many "IF" problems.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 19, 2020
  20. fnordcircle

    fnordcircle The poster who James White said inspires him. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I hate when I agree with Deus.
     
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