Elephant in the Room -- Tom Brady's Mental block in big games

[pherein]

I would like to say that we have the greatest respect for what Brady has done, and continues to do. This Bash thread on a good man that has tried his best for the fans and New england, is not deserved.


Like many others. Please just stop this.

 

[Bhelmet]

The problems I see with Brady are the same no matter whether it's regular season or post-season. His accuracy is off way more than the past (especially when he throws at the feet of a wide open guy) - and at times it has nothing to do with a pass rush. Is this age or the effect of many years on the injury list with a shoulder? I don't know. Tom was more "clutch" when he had guys around him that were more "clutch". As good as our O was last year - come the biggest game of the year - not many showed up or stayed consistent. I think Brady came to play and played well. I hope we stay healthy this upcoming season because we have yet to see a full season of what our O could/should be. Tom may not be physically be what he once was, but he plays well in the playoffs much more often than not. I have yet to see him play a bad SB. The next two years should be very good ones for Brady and the Pats.

 

[Observer]

If there is an elephant in the room, it is the lack of the deep pass - both due to lack of a receiver and due to lack of taking the chance. Similar to how we dare some QBs to "beat us with their arm", other teams dare us to throw deep.

 

[Halifax_Pats_Fan]

I would have to go back and look at tape of the past three losses...I think we all would in order to speak intelligently as to whether or not #12 is starting to slide.

One thing I did notice is that defeatist attitude in some of those games. If the tape would show good coverage with no place to go with the ball, then that would be one reason as to why is would be so frustrating for #12.

I think mental toughness is shown, not talked about. They did show it against San Fran in the regular season loss. I think however to show it and know that you can as opposed to show it and know that you WILL are two different things.

"yeah we can come back, we have done this before" (and in reality they did NOT come back in that San Fran game), as opposed to we know we are coming back and watch us do it. Breaking some will. Elimination games at the end of the year...you need to break their will. The ravens did that to us and they deserved to move on. Part of it is you need the horses back there and we just don't got them. We don't. We have not since a while. Brady IS going to be getting older and skills will diminish, that is a fact, even he can't fight it.

But I honestly think we got at least 2-3 more good years with Tom. We are damn lucky to have him. Yes we need to be thinking about the future at the QB position but I think #12 has got plenty of fight and skill left in him. Does he have the will? It would be hard for him, the season is long and demanding.

Get him some secondary help and a deep threat. I think the front 7 look good. It is a team sport. Get the man some help this year.

Mental toughness. In the biggest of games you better have it. The Rams never had it in 2001 and we saw how far that got them. If you are expecting your qb to bail you out and having to be razor sharp each and every week, well, that kinda gets to you. Not a mental block but more like mental exhaustion getting everyone's A game. Get the man some help.

 

[RhodyPatriot]

Certainly not. Actually, I'm not arguing that Brady choked at all. I'm merely commenting on the double standard by which he's measured here.

For instance, Manning's first pick in the Baltimore @ Den game was a perfect pass to Decker, which due to what some would call uncalled PI and some would not, bounced off Decker's hands/chest straight up into the air resulting in a pick 6.

Go to the 'hatorade' thread and see how many posters here were willing to call a spade a spade and write that one off as sheer bad luck. Nope. It was on Manning. "ANOTHER PICK IN THE PLAYOFFS! WOOHOO! THERE HE GOES AGAIN!"

Yet Brady's tipped pass, which one could argue was tipped at the line and therefore never even got close to its intended target, is not judged the same way.

My opinion: Football is a team sport, and no one guy can do it by themselves. Manning put his team in a position to win the game where only a miracle could take it away and that miracle floated over Rahim Moore's head. No doubt the pick in OT was a terrible decision, and he gets his share of the blame for it, but on this forum, that share of the blame is basically 100%.

Brady had a game against Baltimore that was mediocre at best, a terrible rating, more picks than TDs, 13 points total and none in the second half. Is it his fault they lost? No, because the guys around him weren't able to step up their own games to help out and take up the slack, which is what a TEAM has to do to win. But that doesn't absolve him of his share of the blame, which many here are trying to do.

It IS a double standard, and I'm not really sure how anyone can a) not see it, or b) see it and still argue against it.

Couldn't agree more.
Far too many posters on this site cannot objectively look at the Patriots in general and definitely Brady (and Belichick) in particular.
It's always everybody else's fault.
For them it's never on Brady when in fact in more often than not it IS on Brady. The Welker non-catch in last years Super Bowl being a prime example. Lots of folks around here call that a drop. It wasn't a drop. The play against the Ravens was a drop. Hit Wes right in the numbers and he dropped it. No, the Super Bowl play was a terrible throw to a wide open receiver (was behind Wes and high, Welker had to turn and leap in the opposite direction of where he was running) and Welker didn't come down with. Was a catchable ball because Wes got his hands on it but it was not a drop. BIG difference.
But that play is put entirely on Welker when in fact if the QB, who had time to throw, actually makes a good throw Welker doesn't need to contort his body trying to catch it. But that was all on Wes. Ridiculous!

Can you imagine the commentary here if Peyton Manning or Mark Sanchez completely mishandled the clock/game situation the way Brady did at the end of the 1st half in the Raven game?? That was embarrassing. Commentary here over that boondoggle was mild. Heck, we even have a Boston Globe fan boy .....errrrrr writer who states that Brady is not deserving of ANY criticism for the Patriots loss to the Ravens. None!! Again, ridiculous.

Tom Brady is in the same boat that guys like Peyton Manning and John Elway were in. They don't win Super Bowls when it's all put on them. They win Super Bowls when they're given really good RB's and quality defenses. Hoping Bill Belichick will figure that out one day. Why he ever decided the Patriots needed to become QB-Centric I'll never understand. He won 3 Super Bowls WITHOUT that philosophy.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

In 2009, the first play from scrimmage, Ray Rice runs 80 yards for a TD. The Patriots next possession, Suggs strip sacks Brady. Shortly it is 14-0, and Ray Lewis knows all of Brady's cadences, so that's game.

In 2010, the defense gave up 28 points at home to an offense led by Mark Sanchez.

In 2011, the defense didn't force one 3 and out in the super bowl. The closest they got was the game winning drive when Nink jumps offsides on a would-be third down stop. Eli converts the next play.

In 2012, the Ravens have four TD drives. One goes 53 yards (Ridley fumble), one goes 63 yards, and two go 87 yards. The defense sees third down twice in those four drives.

I'm not saying Brady is faultless across the board, but this is what it comes to today. Brady has to be freaking pristine for us to get the W. As nice as that would be, it's not realistic, and it's not what had to happen to be successful when they were winning Super Bowls. It was a team effort. I can't imagine anyone spends time 'gameplanning' to play our defense when they play us. That's even more time spent trying to take down Brady.

 

[UK_Pat37]

I thought a week would be enough time to avoid message boards and what not in order to moss over reactive bed wetter threads like this..clearly not!

It's really not a 'mental' thing.

He quotes 2007...that's called if you hit a QB enough times and bat enough passes, you'll rile a QB enough to force errant play....NO *****!

2011 season was somewhat similar.

Every time we struggle or lose a game...post season or not...the same issues come up. Lack of a pass rush and the fact we haven't got a deep threat. Gronkowski helps us no ends and goes a long way to solving the issue, but we struggle when he isn't there. Not only that the Ravens seem to have had our number for a while now. If they aren't blowing us out they are holding us to very closely fought games. There's glaring weaknesses on this team which despite seeing glimpses of improvement in, are still glaring issues.

This team is a top 5 pass rusher and one speedy receiver from being unstoppable. Stop throwing your toys out of the pram and accept that you simply aren't going to win it all. There are some great players who never go all the way. There are teams who have never been to the big game let alone win it in their history.

Lap it up whilst you can. I'd like to see where guys who post stuff like this are in ten years time when we're picking #1 overall in the draft and there is a TONNE of stuff to address.

 

[BrickPat]

Lmao-Now both Brady and Welker suck. Belichick is next no doubt.

Actually the Draft is coming up so Belichick is definitely next in line for the sucks thread.

I don't understand how this team wins 5 games a year.

I get the sentiment relative to the sarcasm but I think you're taking the Brady critques to the extreme. I don't know what the exact issue is but Brady has definitely underperformed and underwhelmed in their playoff losses. Noting the obvious does not equate to thinking he sucks.

Obviously Brady is not the only reason for the playoff losses but he has played a major role in them just as he has in the playoff wins.

We all agree that Brady is one of the GOAT but we shouldn't elevate him to a sports deity and treat the reasonable critiques as blasphemy.

 

[olschool]

People who start threads like this are shouting to the world how little they really know about football in general, and the pro game specifically. We already had a similar thread by Fencer titled "Is Brady choking?" or something like that. Do yourself a favor, Nathan, and delete this nonsense while you still can to save further embarrassment. You simply have no clue what you're talking about.

It seems pretty obvious to me that the offense knows that if they can't score thirty points they'll lose. No wonder Brady looks bummed out when they get behind.

When they run into elite defenses that shut them down, you can see the disgusted look on their faces, as they sit on the sidelines, watching the defense give up another long drive.

It must be pretty depressing to the offense to know that they have to do it all, and can't rely on their defense in tight games. If the defense had only allowed four Ravens field goals, we'd be talking about how Brady gutted out an ugly win like he did when he was just a " game manager ".

This team is one of the best offenses of all time with one of the worst defenses of all time. It's nothing more than that.

 

[The_Riddler]

I posted this in another thread and I will just say it again, and I am serious when I say this.

Tom's focus and fire and/or lackthereof in the playoffs in the biggest games has gone South since the arrival of the one and only and we know who, yes, I'll say it and I mean it, Giselle.

I understand that football should take a backseat and that she should be the most important thing in his life, but I'm sorry to say, pre-Giselle, we had a guy who used to slam down Gatoraid cups and prance up and down the bench egging guys on. The fire and focus was there. He was always aware of the clock, aware of the pocket, never ducked at the thought of a phantom passrusher like we see now.

2007 was when "we know who" came aboard and I'm happy for Tom from that aspect, but unfortunately, his football "focus", "awareness" and "nerve" have taken a huge hit in the big games and I believe her arrival has alot to do with it. That is my honest opinion and everyone I talk to believes the same thing.

Just this past Sunday at my son's Pop Warner banquet that exact subject game up about Tom's lack of big game nerve and focus and a woman at the table turned to me and said that her husband believes that Giselle has taken all of this away, and yes, she was serious. Alot of us believe this.

I hope he can find a way in the next 2-3 season to watch some of his old playoff tapes and see how he used to be and I hope he can regain what he has lost.

 

[ivanvamp]

You must either be about 14, or you didn't start watching football until after 2001 if you are trying to diminish Tom Bradys contributions to winning that title.

Of course nice job trying to make a stat argument out of 3 games, one where he playing in a blizzard and another when he was injured in the first half.

Brady's performance in the Snow Bowl was one of the best I've ever seen, considering the stakes and the conditions. He was incredible that day.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

I posted this in another thread and I will just say it again, and I am serious when I say this.

Tom's focus and fire and/or lackthereof in the playoffs in the biggest games has gone South since the arrival of the one and only and we know who, yes, I'll say it and I mean it, Giselle.

I understand that football should take a backseat and that she should be the most important thing in his life, but I'm sorry to say, pre-Giselle, we had a guy who used to slam down Gatoraid cups and prance up and down the bench egging guys on. The fire and focus was there. He was always aware of the clock, aware of the pocket, never ducked at the thought of a phantom passrusher like we see now.

2007 was when "we know who" came aboard and I'm happy for Tom from that aspect, but unfortunately, his football "focus", "awareness" and "nerve" have taken a huge hit in the big games and I believe her arrival has alot to do with it. That is my honest opinion and everyone I talk to believes the same thing.

Just this past Sunday at my son's Pop Warner banquet that exact subject game up about Tom's lack of big game nerve and focus and a woman at the table turned to me and said that her husband believes that Giselle has taken all of this away, and yes, she was serious. Alot of us believe this.

I hope he can find a way in the next 2-3 season to watch some of his old playoff tapes and see how he used to be and I hope he can regain what he has lost.

I didn't know Giselle was present in these big playoff games and teasingly flashing her tits to Tom in the stands,thereby keeping his concentration to the game off balance.


Come on now......it's more of aging since its very rare when a QB over 35 wins a SB and those 7-7 records the past playoff games did not include a defense roster to back him up with a younger McGinest,Bruschi,Harrison,Seymour,Law ect:

The defense has gradually gotten better but it's still a sieve in the playoffs and Brady continually has to carry the team......that is a lot of stress and too much importance relying on one player and I think it affects Brady too much that he makes mistakes......who can blame him with the load he has on his shoulders?

I think it's safe to say that no other QB in the NFL carries his team more than Brady......and it's not key to success,especially at 35 years old......but the fact that he continues to keep the team in contention is an incredible feat that no other team can can say that.

 

[ivanvamp]

In 2009, the first play from scrimmage, Ray Rice runs 80 yards for a TD. The Patriots next possession, Suggs strip sacks Brady. Shortly it is 14-0, and Ray Lewis knows all of Brady's cadences, so that's game.

That's no excuse. The Welker injury was huge, obviously, and the single biggest reason they lost that game. Baltimore was very good that year. But down 14 in the first quarter is hardly a time to panic. If the Pats had scored a TD to make it 14-7, that was still anyone's game. They just got steamrolled in that one, plain and simple.

In 2010, the defense gave up 28 points at home to an offense led by Mark Sanchez.

And the offense scored 14 points until a garbage TD in the last minute.

In 2011, the defense didn't force one 3 and out in the super bowl. The closest they got was the game winning drive when Nink jumps offsides on a would-be third down stop. Eli converts the next play.

And the offense scored just 17 and had numerous chances in the 2nd half to put that game away and couldn't. Brady's horrible INT on the bomb to Gronk (it was both a bad throw and a bad decision - Hernandez was wide open on the right and he would have had about a 20 yard gain easy) was a huge play.

In 2012, the Ravens have four TD drives. One goes 53 yards (Ridley fumble), one goes 63 yards, and two go 87 yards. The defense sees third down twice in those four drives.

The Pats advanced EIGHT times inside Baltimore's 35 and came away with only 13 points.

In their playoff losses from 2007-2012, the offense deserves the lion's share of the blame. Not all of it, but the majority of it. Generally the defense has played about the same during these losses as it did during the regular season, but the offense underperformed in a major way.

 

[Off The Grid]

Perhaps it was the Beef Curtain that did us in.

 

[Triumph]

Its not as simple as just blaming 1 person for the Pats failures.

Brady is only working with the players and scheme that is dictated to him from the top. Charlie Weis and Brady were a deadly pair and have 3 Championships to show for it. Weis would change gears in a second if something wasnt working and the Pats were known for innovated game plans and 2nd half adjustments. No one player with the exception Brady could derail the NE offense because of injury.

Bear in mind that the Pats didnt need to score a lot of points because of good defense. I guess thats what they call a team effort.

Maybe they are there, but I dont see the innovated game plans and 2nd half adjustments today. I know that the Pats run a virtually unstoppable 2 TE offense that doesnt work without 2 stud TEs unless NE is playing a flawed team like Denver 2011 or Texans 2012.

I dont get why Vereen wasnt put in when Branch was basically ineffective. I dont know why the Pats seem to roll the same game plan out there that the Ravens/Giants are expecting. Would have been a crime to run the ball with Bolden, Ridely, Vereen and Woody from the no huddle and catch the Ravens off guard? It seems like a Mike Martz mentality that the Pats are going pass the ball even though the defense is daring NE to do otherwise.

 

[olschool]

I posted this in another thread and I will just say it again, and I am serious when I say this.

Tom's focus and fire and/or lackthereof in the playoffs in the biggest games has gone South since the arrival of the one and only and we know who, yes, I'll say it and I mean it, Giselle.

I understand that football should take a backseat and that she should be the most important thing in his life, but I'm sorry to say, pre-Giselle, we had a guy who used to slam down Gatoraid cups and prance up and down the bench egging guys on. The fire and focus was there. He was always aware of the clock, aware of the pocket, never ducked at the thought of a phantom passrusher like we see now.

2007 was when "we know who" came aboard and I'm happy for Tom from that aspect, but unfortunately, his football "focus", "awareness" and "nerve" have taken a huge hit in the big games and I believe her arrival has alot to do with it. That is my honest opinion and everyone I talk to believes the same thing.

Just this past Sunday at my son's Pop Warner banquet that exact subject game up about Tom's lack of big game nerve and focus and a woman at the table turned to me and said that her husband believes that Giselle has taken all of this away, and yes, she was serious. Alot of us believe this.

I hope he can find a way in the next 2-3 season to watch some of his old playoff tapes and see how he used to be and I hope he can regain what he has lost.

Yeah, like Micky told Rocky..."Wimmin' weaken legs" !

TOO FUNNY ! Brady has always had weak legs. Blame it on Bridget.

 

[Fencer]

cleverly humorous

I'm serious.

You're being an irrational jerk, but I'm guessing that's not the "real you".

 

[PP2]

Brady is only working with the players and scheme that is dictated to him from the top. Charlie Weis and Brady were a deadly pair and have 3 Championships to show for it. Weis would change gears in a second if something wasnt working and the Pats were known for innovated game plans and 2nd half adjustments.

I think there is something to be said for this. Prior to becoming OC of the Patriots, Weis had twenty-one years of experience in football, having started his career as an assistant in 1979. In fairness, and not to slight McDaniels' offensive prowess, but he had only 6 years in football before becoming OC, and even then has only been a OC for 6 years.

 

[Tunescribe]

I'm serious.

You're being an irrational jerk, but I'm guessing that's not the "real you".

Fencer, the only "irrational" aspect of our exchanges is your preposterous claim that Tom Brady is "choking" in playoff games. That's it. Let it go. If you don't want to learn from what I've offered to the contrary, go back through this thread -- and your own -- and read the posts by Deus Irae, AndyJohnson, MoLewisRocks and a few others who've been here a while and know the game. In many cases they've been more patient than I in addressing this nonsense.

 

[borg]

I think there is something to be said for this. Prior to becoming OC of the Patriots, Weis had twenty-one years of experience in football, having started his career as an assistant in 1979. In fairness, and not to slight McDaniels' offensive prowess, but he had only 6 years in football before becoming OC, and even then has only been a OC for 6 years.

In McDaniels' last 2 playoff losses as OC of NE ('13 ravens game and 2007 Giants SB),
Brady faced 3rd down a combined 29 times and McDaniels lined him in shot gun 26 times. The remaining 3 plays were under center hand offs....THEREFORE, McDaniels called ZERO play action plays on 3rd down.
Houston we have a problem(s). Does NE have no faith in their OL. Does NE have no faith in Brady under center. Is Josh McDaniels too one dimensional. What we do know is, on 3rd down, the defense knows whats coming.
And...

Points scored in the 5 playoff losses since 2007

14.....vs Giants '07 SB....scoring 22.8 points less than regular season average
14.....vs Ravens '09........scoring 12.7 points less
21.....vs Jets '10.............scoring 11.4 points less
17.....vs Giants '11 SB......scoring 15.4 points less
13.....vs Ravens '12..........scoring 21.8 points less

This year, NE scored 10.5 points less against the Ravens than the league median of 23.5 points..........Blame the D if it keeps all that Brady man love warm and fuzzy, but this offense continues to under perform at the worst times. At some point NE might realize small ball has its limitations and in the post season, finesse fizzles.