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Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amendola?

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Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

I wouldn't say we're stuck with DA. What makes BB great is that he plays the best players no matter contract or name. Perhaps we can dump him to another team or something like that

Our cap is clean in 2015, so we could manipulate the salary cap #s to inflate when Amendola is off the books. I would obviously prefer Edelman, but I cannot get behind keeping both of them, the cap is $126M, which means if they were both making $5.7M APY they would be 9% of the salary cap. That is too much for that position, because when push comes to shove Edelman and Amendola are defendable, they are not freaks like Gronkowski or can win any matchup 1on1, 2on1, etc.

Unfortunately, our 2013 mistake of signing Amendola is most likely going to be detrimental to our 2014 offseason. Sometimes these things happen, we will get 600-700 yards out of Amendola, and hopefully we can sign a low cost UFA like Andre Roberts who can make up the other 500-700 yards we generally get out of that position.
 
Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

Our cap is clean in 2015, so we could manipulate the salary cap #s to inflate when Amendola is off the books. I would obviously prefer Edelman, but I cannot get behind keeping both of them, the cap is $126M, which means if they were both making $5.7M APY they would be 9% of the salary cap. That is too much for that position, because when push comes to shove Edelman and Amendola are defendable, they are not freaks like Gronkowski or can win any matchup 1on1, 2on1, etc.

Unfortunately, our 2013 mistake of signing Amendola is most likely going to be detrimental to our 2014 offseason. Sometimes these things happen, we will get 600-700 yards out of Amendola, and hopefully we can sign a low cost UFA like Andre Roberts who can make up the other 500-700 yards we generally get out of that position.

You want to sign a player who played 16 games and had less receptions than Amendola did after ripping his groin in the first game?
 
Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

Edelman is a better player for many reasons, he is better after the catch, has better field awareness, is more agile and capable of getting open in tight coverage, has an understanding situational football, catches the ball in stride better, positions his body against the defender better, can stretch the football field on the outside better, among other things.

My thinking he is better is not even a factor, the reality is he has proven that he is a better player because he has proven that he is, on the same team with Amendola he outperformed him from day 1.

If you watched the Pats this year, then you cannot offer a day 1 assessment because the reverse was true - even when Amendola got hurt that game. That was the Bills game. Refresh your recollection as to what actually happened there and the reviews of Amendola. The rest of the season was a hurt Amendola, which is what has been stated and repeated with an apparent lack of comprehension by you. Hurt players are not as productive as the healthy version. Try to grasp the concept.

Fact - there was reported interest 1 year ago from multiple teams other than the Pats. Fact - the same was not true of Edleman. Fact - Edelman signed a cheap one year deal to try again. Find something other than your thought process, admit you're wrong or admit you are incapable of distinguishing between fact and your unsupported opinion. Those are real NFL teams, with a real response and real motivations. Your opinion of his value has little weight next to that reality.

And if you are suffering a memory lapse, my reference to your issues with Amendola is taken straight from your incalculable number of threads and posts on conspiracy theories, McDaniels, Amendola and his contract. The fact you invite another discussion on whether Edelman is worth a high contract approximating Amendola is another invitation to troll the depths of your issues with Amendola. Feel free to run a search thread on your past discussions of Amendola and McDaniels. If you forgot your past threads on that subject, or how they pervade this Board, then you review them for enlightenment. I am not recounting your opinions for you. They were painful enough the first time.

Edelman has been with the Pats since 2009. Television performances are nice, but you need to grasp that people who are in the industry have coached and worked with him, just as they did with Brady, for far more time than you experience in watching a 60 minute game. Accept that your football IQ is a flatline next to the actual experts, and they did not keep him down as a player to lose games (the Pats went 10-6 in 2009 - where was JE and his phenomenal abilities with 37 receptions when the team was looking for offense? Oh yes, feel free to review the game logs for how and when he made most of his receptions). He didn't move up on the depth chart for many years, which implies there were numerous other receivers better than he. This team runs multiple receiver sets, and there is no depth chart of which I am aware for slot receivers. There is a receiver depth chart, and Edelman was not number 2 outside of this year. That link is to the Pats' depth chart, so please don't offer your fictitious slot depth chart that makes Edelman number 2. If it exists, link to it or accept that it is only a figment of your own imagination. I will. There actually can be two players labeled slot receivers on the field at the same time. It is weird how plays can script that feature.

And if you wish to call me out with phrases like "I cannot help but question if you watched the Patriots in 2009," feel free to IM me and we can have a candid discussion outside the public view of your perceived expertise. As a starter for that year, watch BB's A Football Life - that was 2009, and understand what was going on with that team. Second, Edelman had 37 receptions, and 6 more a blowout loss to the Ravens after Welker went down in the Texans game when the game was out of hand the entire time. I was posting here in 2009, so I have that history and you can find my posts in actual discussions that year. You hadn't started your anti-McDaniels/Amendola crusade back then, so I have no clue what you were watching. You apparently have figured out the statistics function on ESPN, so feel free to look at the game logs and drive charts for the games in 2009 if you really did not follow the season. It may offer a clue.

And BB "lost JE in the shuffle"? Seriously - in a 53 man roster? BB seems to know exactly who is on his team and their capabilities, but apparently your vast expertise allows you to discern otherwise. I thought he hand-picked his roster, top to bottom, and attended every practice, game and most film sessions. That is why Brady saw the field in 2001. BB must have simply stopped watching JE, because you apparently know the truth. So let's close with that thought - BB forgot about JE and his nuclear strike receiver capabilities, until he was opened by other teams this year like a Pandora's Box of woe for defenses. You are absolutely right. JE is worlds better than Amendola. He may actually be better than Calvin or Andre Johnson. Statistically, Larry Fitzgerald as a rookie had only 58 receptions to JE's 43, so he is almost as good as Fitzgerald by your math. Rock on! Let's not pay him $6 million. He's worth $14 million easily. The NFL is calling for your expert services. Just pick up the phone.
 
Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

If you watched the Pats this year, then you cannot offer a day 1 assessment because the reverse was true - even when Amendola got hurt that game. That was the Bills game. Refresh your recollection as to what actually happened there and the reviews of Amendola. The rest of the season was a hurt Amendola, which is what has been stated and repeated with an apparent lack of comprehension by you. Hurt players are not as productive as the healthy version. Try to grasp the concept.

Amendola – 14 targets, 10 receptions, 71.4% ratio, 104 yards, 10.4 average, 0 touchdowns
Edelman – 9 targets, 7 receptions, 77.77% ratio, 79 yards, 11.3 average, 2 touchdowns

I will take Edelman’s week 1 performances over Amendola’s any day of the week and twice on Sundays.



Fact - there was reported interest 1 year ago from multiple teams other than the Pats. Fact - the same was not true of Edleman. Fact - Edelman signed a cheap one year deal to try again. Find something other than your thought process, admit you're wrong or admit you are incapable of distinguishing between fact and your unsupported opinion. Those are real NFL teams, with a real response and real motivations. Your opinion of his value has little weight next to that reality.

Fact – what his value was in 2013 has no impact on what his value is right now. Do you know how much Wilfork would have received as a UFA in 2013; do you know how much he would make this year? Things change; do you think Talib and Michael Bennett only gets offered 1-year/$5M, or Blount could be had for a seventh rounder and Jeff Demps this offseason? Edelman was visiting teams on crutches last offseason and coming of 3 seasons in which Edelman received 54 targets total (2010, 2011, and 2012 combined). Amendola was targeted 61 times in his first 6 games of 2012, so are you surprised that the player who had more targets in the first 6 games of his season than the other player had in 3 seasons combined was considered more valuable?

Bolded – once again, you try to diminish what I post in order to imply that you know what you are talking about but you do not.

And if you are suffering a memory lapse, my reference to your issues with Amendola is taken straight from your incalculable number of threads and posts on conspiracy theories, McDaniels, Amendola and his contract. The fact you invite another discussion on whether Edelman is worth a high contract approximating Amendola is another invitation to troll the depths of your issues with Amendola. Feel free to run a search thread on your past discussions of Amendola and McDaniels. If you forgot your past threads on that subject, or how they pervade this Board, then you review them for enlightenment. I am not recounting your opinions for you. They were painful enough the first time
Remember when I told you I held you in high regard, well I do not anymore just so we are clear. You are petty and you offer up lies and false accusations to justify your positions. You are a weak poster and you make weak arguments that force you to rely on demeaning and attempting to make the other poster sound like a villain because you know just how weak you and your opinion are.

I do not want to engage in discussions with you anymore to be completely honest, your approach to discussion such as belittling, and making false accusations causes me to have no respect for you as a member of this board and I see no value in your posts. Please take you childish and petty behavior elsewhere. Have a good night.
 
Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

Amendola – 14 targets, 10 receptions, 71.4% ratio, 104 yards, 10.4 average, 0 touchdowns
Edelman – 9 targets, 7 receptions, 77.77% ratio, 79 yards, 11.3 average, 2 touchdowns

I will take Edelman’s week 1 performances over Amendola’s any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

You're saying Edelman also completely tore an abductor muscle during the first half of that game?
 
Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

You want to sign a player who played 16 games and had less receptions than Amendola did after ripping his groin in the first game?

I have no clue what you are talking about, here.

What I do know Amendola has never had more than 689 yards in a season, Edelman 729 yards in his final 8 games of 2013-14. Everyone needs to give it a rest, with the torn groin BS the guy did not even have offseason surgery, he was quoted saying he was close to 100% on 9/25/13 and went out and laid an egg in the biggest game of the season and the biggest of his career. You focus on week 1, when what he caught 6 of 10 balls within a two drive stretch against an injured Bills secondary playing without its best DBs? This is getting old, it is as if you all live in a fantasyland where all of sudden after playing in the NFL since 2008 with plenty of opportunity Amendola is going to flick a switch, and become, a 100+ receptions, 1000+ yard receiver. It has been a groin injury holding him back for the past seven years.
 
Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

You're saying Edelman also completely tore an abductor muscle during the first half of that game?

What does that matter? I am saying that 5 months later Amendola had 0 catches and 1 drop and Edelman had 10 catches in the biggest game of the season. Do you really think I care what a player did in week one of the season? Do we hang our hats on week one performances now a day?

It really gets frustrating attempting to have conversations with some of you people, especially about Amendola. It reminds me of trying to have a conversation with an insecure girlfriend who just instantly becomes defensive about everything and throws excuses, exaggerates situations and makes false accusations or “well you did this” statements. It is exhausting, there is legitimate discussion to have, but they are impossible cause of this nonsense.

I want you to know that if Amendola was at your workplace and heard someone talking about your poor performance I would be willing to bet he would not insert 1500 excuses, exaggerate situations, and defend you to the death.
 
Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

What does that matter? I am saying that 5 months later Amendola had 0 catches and 1 drop and Edelman had 10 catches in the biggest game of the season. Do you really think I care what a player did in week one of the season? Do we hang our hats on week one performances now a day?

Your obsession with this is really scary.
 
Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

I will take Edelman’s week 1 performances over Amendola’s any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

You're saying Edelman also completely tore an abductor muscle during the first half of that game?

What does that matter?

I don't know, you're the one who thought a direct comparison was apropos. Why did you post it?
 
Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

Your obsession with this is really scary.

I just want to understand, why people capable of logging onto the internet believe that something that has never happen before in six years as pro is going to happen in year seven, and they believe this so adamantly that if anyone even makes the slightest statement about Amendola playing poorly they defend him like someone has said he should be playing in the CFL.

My obsession is not with Amendola it is with understand the motivation and reasoning of others. Nobody offers any reason though, that is the problem, nobody says why it is going to happen they just insist it is going to happen and get mad if you disagree. Is it really that unreasonable for me to want to know why I should believe that Amendola can do the things the people are claiming?
 
Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

I don't know, you're the one who thought a direct comparison was apropos. Why did you post it?

The context of my post was in response to 38 who suggested Amendola played so much better than Edelman did in week one of the season, he did not play that much better, and in fact I would argue that Edelman was more valuable to helping us win the game seeing he put 12 points on the board.
 
Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

Question for Brady6 and I've asked this in a couple other Amendola threads and never got a response, is the only thing you care about when watching football stats? Or does how a player got those stats and the help his team mates provided matter at all? Is Amendola overpaid? yeah a smidge but what i think you forget to take into account is all the other things a WR is asked to do besides catch the ball. Amendola is one of the best blocking WR's I've seen just a hair worse then Hines Ward. There were so many Eldeman catches where he wiggled free for an extra 4-5 yards because of a great block thrown by Amendola. You know that Denver pick play every one complains about? We ran it a ton too with Danny and Julian. The way the patriots ran it took advantage of each WR's best traits. Eldeman is electric in the open field but he is not as polished a route runner. He admitted as much in an interview several months ago though I don't have the link. Danny's poor stats couldn't possibly be because the pats asked him to be a team player and do what he does better then Eldeman? I love Eldeman and will root for him wherever he ends up (as long as its not the jets) but please stop acting like he is a legit #1 WR worth breaking the bank for. He had one good injury free year with almost everything going his way.
 
Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

The context of my post was in response to 38 who suggested Amendola played so much better than Edelman did in week one of the season, he did not play that much better, and in fact I would argue that Edelman was more valuable to helping us win the game seeing he put 12 points on the board.

You don't think 7 second half catches with a completely torn abductor muscle was enough?

What if he only made three catches, but his entire leg fell off? There has to be some compensating factor.
 
Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

I just want to understand, why people capable of logging onto the internet believe that something that has never happen before in six years as pro is going to happen in year seven, and they believe this so adamantly that if anyone even makes the slightest statement about Amendola playing poorly they defend him like someone has said he should be playing in the CFL.

My obsession is not with Amendola it is with understand the motivation and reasoning of others. Nobody offers any reason though, that is the problem, nobody says why it is going to happen they just insist it is going to happen and get mad if you disagree. Is it really that unreasonable for me to want to know why I should believe that Amendola can do the things the people are claiming?

Maybe the guy was hurt and you should just wait and see and stop harping on it 24/7. I mean its not like TB hasn't made ok receivers decent and good receivers superstars. DA is certainly solid. Give him a year with TB healthy and I am sure he will be a great WR.

And rewatch that week 1 game.
 
Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

Maybe the guy was hurt and you should just wait and see and stop harping on it 24/7. I mean its not like TB hasn't made ok receivers decent and good receivers superstars. DA is certainly solid. Give him a year with TB healthy and I am sure he will be a great WR.



And rewatch that week 1 game.


Fair enough. For the record, this thread was intended to discuss whether Edelman is worth retaining with consideration that we already are invested in Amendola. That some how turned into a who is better debate which is really not a factor because of the economics of the situation.
 
Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

a hundred members here have told him repeatedly that Amendola was playing with a totally torn groin muscle, off the bone, all season. He refuses to even TRY to understand how hard it is to even WALK never mind play NFL football for a full season. I just tore my groin muscle at B.U. playing B ball when I was a soph. Sat out the winter until summer league...and THAT was just a tear. I have no idea what they shot him up with to get him out there but THAT Amendola was about 1/2 of what he really would be if healthy. Amendola looked just as advertised in camp and preseason before the tear.
 
Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

You don't think 7 second half catches with a completely torn abductor muscle was enough?

What if he only made three catches, but his entire leg fell off? There has to be some compensating factor.


I think that he is an inconsistent player who has two or three big games every season and is mediocre in the others. I think he has been that way every season and the groin injury doesn't factor into that either way in my mind.

If he could do it in weeks one, nine and fifteen with the same groin injury why couldn't he do it in the other eleven games he played? Did it only hurt sometimes? If he was bad every week then we could say it was the groin but that was not the case, he was inconsistent because that is the type of player he is and has always been.
 
Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

Fair enough. For the record, this thread was intended to discuss whether Edelman is worth retaining with consideration that we already are invested in Amendola. That some how turned into a who is better debate which is really not a factor because of the economics of the situation.

But the word "Amendola" was in the title of your thread. Seriously, let it go...

And what is shocking is that I notice you think Ryan Mallet is a potential franchise QB. I dont get that. Guy might not even be a potential NFL starter. When has he taken a meaningful snap that would lead you to think he was franchise material?
 
Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

a hundred members here have told him repeatedly that Amendola was playing with a totally torn groin muscle, off the bone, all season. He refuses to even TRY to understand how hard it is to even WALK never mind play NFL football for a full season. I just tore my groin muscle at B.U. playing B ball when I was a soph. Sat out the winter until summer league...and THAT was just a tear. I have no idea what they shot him up with to get him out there but THAT Amendola was about 1/2 of what he really would be if healthy. Amendola looked just as advertised in camp and preseason before the tear.

I imagine you'd have to run with your knees together like you're trying to make it to the bathroom, but i don't know.

All I know is the only thing that matters is the quality of our smurf slot receivers. it's probably keeping BB up at night.
 
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