Drake Maye Sack Problem: Fix Release, or Fix Protection?

[PatriotSpy]

Well it may not be what you are suggesting but others are.

I look at as a game within the game. Like a poker game on a football field in which Brady played everyone for fools. Take the easy money for 7-8 yards sprinkled in with some hefty jackpots. Be more unpredictable. He doesn’t have to play the game the exact same way Brady did. Heck he could be the guy who goes after the hefty jackpot a little bit more. That’s fine. But if he can be a guy who makes the d defend every inch of grass, I think he’d be damn near unstoppable.

The reason I bring up poker is because I remember reading about one of Brady’s opponents saying Tom would make for a great poker player. He catches the defenses bluffs and knows how to take his jackpots big or small.

 

[n1997y]

But I think we have gotten off track of the discussion and into defining terms.

Yes, agreed.

The discussion at hand is people suggesting that Maye should be coached to throw the ball away rather than extend plays. I strongly disagree with that.

Nope. Look at the thread title. Discussion is “Drake Maye Sack Problem: Fix Release, or Fix Protection?”.

Suggestions are about different approaches for coaching him to avoid being sacked. Some of the suggestions have been throwing the ball away instead of eating it, checking down to open short throws instead of holding the ball too long waiting for deep routes to develop, and not being so quick to become a runner instead of trying one of those two aforementioned strategies. As usual, they’re not mutually exclusive alternatives despite the insistence on casting them as such.

Maye has his own definition of what open means and it’s a very aggressive one, and his ability to make those throws makes that the correct approach. Maye shouldn’t be a check down guy (I disagree Brady was also, Brady was just lightning quick in his progressions) he should use his arm talent.

Of course we also need short to deep reads in the offense, but we should be running more deep to short than any other team. The consequence is a sack here or there or Maye running often for nice gains. That’s much more effective than trying to dink and dunk all the way down the field.

I think there was actually a difference in how Brady read defenses. I think his progressions on the same play were different every time he called it, depending on his presnap read of the defense, the strategic position at the moment, the defensive personnel, etc. My point is, I don’t think he read deep to short or short to deep, he read from most likely to be open down through the others who would deliver the gain required at that moment to maximize the chance of winning the game. That’s on a different level, and we can only hope Drake will get there someday.

One thing we know, he’ll never get there if he gets his head slammed into the carpet as often as Tua. Avoiding that is what we’re discussing.

 

[imahobgoblin]

Nice, thoughtful post without calling someone names or threatening violence against their family. Good job!

Are you one drugs? When did I ever threaten violence against someone's family?

 

[Tunescribe]

Are you one drugs? When did I ever threaten violence against someone's family?

Why do you ask if I am "on drugs"? Perhaps you could use one to jog your memory about wanting to slap my (dearly departed) mother.

 

[imahobgoblin]

Why do you ask if I am "on drugs"? Perhaps you could use one to jog your memory about wanting to slap my (dearly departed) mother.

Oh my gosh, this is utterly hilarious. Saying in jest I was tempted to slap your mother for having you is threatening violence against your family? And come to find out she isn't even alive? So I am threatening to exhume someone and slap them? You are ridiculous. So ya, if that is what you are saying, you have to be on drugs. But hey, you are the latest member of the Clown Show Posse. Welcome aboard.

 

[imahobgoblin]

Why do you ask if I am "on drugs"? Perhaps you could use one to jog your memory about wanting to slap my (dearly departed) mother.

Here you go, everyone. This is what Tunescribe calls me threatening violence against his family. Dude, get some help.

 

[Tunescribe]

Here you go, everyone. This is what Tunescribe calls me threatening violence against his family. Dude, get some help.

Yup, nastiness redux via name calling and violent fantasy. Consider giving it a rest.

 

[imahobgoblin]

Yup, nastiness redux via name calling and violent fantasy. Consider giving it a rest.

Oh wait, now you are threatening my family? Hahahahahaha.

 

[Tunescribe]

Oh wait, now you are threatening my family? Hahahahahaha.

Re. whatever feeds your antagonism, condolences.

 

[imahobgoblin]

Re. whatever feeds your antagonism, condolences.

Whatever frosts you, cupcake.

 

[Tunescribe]

Whatever frosts you, cupcake.

Yeah, I was looking for frosted cupcakes yesterday but the baker said you swooped in and inhaled them all. I should have known. d%#*!@t.

 

[imahobgoblin]

Yeah, I was looking for frosted cupcakes yesterday but the baker said you swooped in an inhaled them all. I should have known. d%#*!@t.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

What's interesting is that the yps ( yards per sack) is lowest in the league at about 4.5 yds so when he runs and gets caught behind the LOS, it counts as a sack and reduces the average. So while the number of sacks (34 IIRC) is high the damage isn't as great as a 10-15 yard sack.

Definitely - that's where it becomes interesting to try to quantify damage due to being a running QB in the first place. There might be a time for "let Maye be Maye," but I'd sure hope the folks in Foxboro have done their homework or that Maye has a vibranium skeleton or something. But that said, he's getting tackled on the run a fair amount, no doubt.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Very interesting analysis. And first I want to say point taken.

Next: there is a long held saying eat the sack and move onto the next play. Trying to avoid sacks to throw the ball away and save from losing yards can lead to mistakes and hits too. If you know a hits coming bracing for it and being in a defensive position is probably safer than trying to side step just to throw it away even if most times you completely avoid contact occasionally you'll put yourself in awkward positions.

The key is to just balance it all out. We obviously don't want to neuter his scrambling abilities. We also obviously want to limit the amount of hits he takes. And if just throwing a few balls away helps with this balance I think Drake will learn to do it. We just have to trust his instincts on when to do each and trust he'll learn these things along the way.

I definitely think there is not some magic formula to rushing attempts/throw aways that we can just set that makes it safer. Just have to be cognizant that throwing it away isn't necessarily bad.

Well, we're all saying a lot of the same things... where appropriate, eat the sack (rather than, sometimes, trying to be a hero and taking further chances, poking up your arm when you've got a defender on you like a stripper wrapped around a pole.

In other circumstances, you're not going anywhere, and you have a clean shot at throwing out of bounds -- I mean, we're also always seeing examples of that strategy.

Then lots of us are saying, heavens no, don't stop rushing when it will work, only eat the sack if the rush won't work.

Then one guy says, Drake's not psychic, how's he to know which rush will work.

I call bull**** on that one. It's hard, you'll never be 100% right, but that's what we call judgement. Yes, he has to have and to develop a mental simulation of things that have not yet happened. If you're bad at that, you can't say "how was I to know there'd be a safety there and he'd jump the route?" The damage is done, and if your judgement can't improve, you're out on your ass.

But having said that, judgement after 5 years is likely to be better than at 1 1/2 years.

I'll say it this way: In Josh McD I trust. Maybe that was always the way to put it -- who knows. I'm just sayin', I feel very good about having these types of problems in the midst of a 6-game winning streak, and having Josh helping Drake improve every week and year to year.

 

[PP2]

I think there was actually a difference in how Brady read defenses. I think his progressions on the same play were different every time he called it, depending on his presnap read of the defense, the strategic position at the moment, the defensive personnel, etc. My point is, I don’t think he read deep to short or short to deep, he read from most likely to be open down through the others who would deliver the gain required at that moment to maximize the chance of winning the game. That’s on a different level, and we can only hope Drake will get there someday.

Brady's processing speed was phenomenal.

He also was able to get to the point where he'd seen everything any defense could throw at him. On the back half of his career, I can count the number of games on one hand where he got flummoxed and all were game designs by defensive geniuses like Rex Ryan or Spags, for example.

We can only hope that Drake can get to that kind of longevity but I don't know what can replicate the insane drive of someone who was drafted in the 6th round.

 

[pazrul72]

Everything in Football has pros and cons, levels of risk and reward. You play things too safe you don't score enough, you play too aggressive you make game changing mistakes. I don't think there is anything wrong with the way Maye plays, it suits his skill set. He holds the ball longer to get bigger plays and the consequence of that is he gets sacked more then most. Not all sacks are created equal though, a 4 yard sack on 2nd and 8 is not the same as a 10 yard one on 3rd down. Alot of Mayes sacks have been the first variety and as long as his head isn't slamming into the ground I will take that all day everyday for the 6-8 big plays he throws. It's funny I have more faith in this offense converting 3rd and 12 then just about any other Patriot offense I've watched. Give Maye 3 secs and with a flick of his wrist he could drill any one of Henry, Boutte, or Diggs for 12-18 yards no matter how well they are covered. That's really hard to defend. Getting back to Maye, he is a gunslinger, aggressive in his risk management. On a scale of 1-10 I'd say he is an 8 and wants to make the big play over the safe play. Again suits his skill set so I don't want to take that away from him but if he could dial it back to a 7 I think he'd be a better QB. The poker comparison is a good one, if people know you are almost always aggressive then it can be used against you. You want to be just aggressive enough that you can still take advantage of people needing to defend the careful.

 

[1960Pats]

Are you saying "Drake Maye release" or "release Drake Maye"?

Order counts in English syntax.

The order of the words definitely counts, but not the order of the letters in the words...

Aoccdrnig to a rscheearer at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.

 

[Wozzy]

I look at as a game within the game. Like a poker game on a football field in which Brady played everyone for fools. Take the easy money for 7-8 yards sprinkled in with some hefty jackpots. Be more unpredictable. He doesn’t have to play the game the exact same way Brady did. Heck he could be the guy who goes after the hefty jackpot a little bit more. That’s fine. But if he can be a guy who makes the d defend every inch of grass, I think he’d be damn near unstoppable.

I think this point ^ is important. Watching last game what bothered me is how often the offense found themselves in third downs and often third and not quite long.

You don’t want to live that way, it was nuanced to notice because Drake does so good on third down and often converts these long passes… but it’s suboptimal. And against the best defenses it won’t be as easy to convert.

Take the checkdown, get the 5-7 yard gain, convert the easy down first. People also dismiss this as nothing, but it’s not. The longer your offense and opposing defenses are out there on the field the less your defense is out there and less time opponents have to score points.

If you want to play better defense, play less defense. Drake needs to improve the efficiency of the offense by not taking unnecessary sacks, getting the ball out quickly and taking what the defense gives him.

 

[p8ryts]

I think this point ^ is important. Watching last game what bothered me is how often the offense found themselves in third downs and often third and not quite long.

You don’t want to live that way, it was nuanced to notice because Drake does so good on third down and often converts these long passes… but it’s suboptimal. And against the best defenses it won’t be as easy to convert.

Take the checkdown, get the 5-7 yard gain, convert the easy down first. People also dismiss this as nothing, but it’s not. The longer your offense and opposing defenses are out there on the field the less your defense is out there and less time opponents have to score points.

If you want to play better defense, play less defense. Drake needs to improve the efficiency of the offense by not taking unnecessary sacks, getting the ball out quickly and taking what the defense gives him.

The good news is that if he can address those things this year, we will have an awesome QB next year.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

The order of the words definitely counts, but not the order of the letters in the words...

Aoccdrnig to a rscheearer at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.

Fcuk Yuo

Ohhh stih, nwo yuo'ev noge adn dnoe ti