Drake Maye Sack Problem: Fix Release, or Fix Protection?

[Ring 6]

I want Drake Maye to hold the ball and extend plays when he can break free from the defender and complete the pass downfield. BUT if he can't break free or the pass isn't there to complete I want him to throw it away or check it down.

Pretty simple concept, but in reality he isn't psychic to know automatically what the right move is every time. I think you kind of have to accept how he plays and live with the results. Asking Maye to be a checkdown Charlie probably isn't playing to his strengths.

He's taken some sacks in the red zone that I don't like. And sometimes defenses play a certain way that dictates more checkdowns and quick throws. I think situationally and against teams playing a certain way I'd like to see him shift his mindset, but overall I think we should accept that he's the kind of QB who is going to take some sacks to chase big plays and that's ok because he's good at making them.

You also don’t want him to be thinking about where is the rush, should I throw the ball away instead of thinking about making a play. You can’t throttle his talent. Any approach you take to offense has drawbacks. Losing big plays from a major playmaker out of fear something bad might happen sometimes is not a positive change. You also don’t want him throwing the ball when a sack is imminent just to avoid the sack because that will create turnovers. People ripped him for trying to do that and fumbling earlier in the season (Pitt?) but now are saying hr should do it.
Don’t listen to the never happy crowd.

 

[n1997y]

It’s not smart to turn Drake Maye into Checkdown Charlie

If it keeps him from getting hurt it’s smart.

Being Checkdown Charlie is not a bad thing, it’s a good thing.

TB12 was the ultimate all time Checkdown Charlie.

 

[Patsfan1645]

If it keeps him from getting hurt it’s smart.

TB12 was the ultimate all time Checkdown Charlie.

Drake is not Brady and the one thing that Drake can do that Brady could not is run. So I would prefer we not try to take away that aspect of his game as it has more upside than not.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

What's interesting is that the yps ( yards per sack) is lowest in the league at about 4.5 yds so when he runs and gets caught behind the LOS, it counts as a sack and reduces the average. So while the number of sacks (34 IIRC) is high the damage isn't as great as a 10-15 yard sack.

 

[n1997y]

Drake is not Brady and the one thing that Drake can do that Brady could not is run. So I would prefer we not try to take away that aspect of his game as it has more upside than not.

Don’t take it away, but temper it. It’s most effective if not overused. And the threat of it makes everything else better too. So don’t limit everything else.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

If it keeps him from getting hurt it’s smart.

Being Checkdown Charlie is not a bad thing, it’s a good thing.

TB12 was the ultimate all time Checkdown Charlie.

TB12 was not a checkdown Charlie. Throwing short =/= checking down. Checking down is when you move off of your reads downfield to dump it off. That's not what Brady did. He specialized in plays designed to throw the ball short and quickly because he was able to survey the defense at the LOS and audible and/or incorporate option routes into the play so his guy was open quickly and quicker = less far downfield. That was Brady's strength as a player.

At least at this stage of his career, Maye doesn't have the same strength for reading defenses and throwing decisively and quickly. And that's not a knock - Brady was the GOAT despite poor athleticism and a relatively limited arm because of how insanely good he was that so it's not a fair standard to hold others to. Maye's strength is on plays that develop downfield where he can see how the defense has shifted and throw into the right spot for the receiver as the defense gets stretched out over the play. By definition it takes more time to develop and works better throwing downfield because that's where the defense spreads out more to create passing lanes.

 

[n1997y]

TB12 was not a checkdown Charlie. Throwing short =/= checking down. Checking down is when you move off of your reads downfield to dump it off. That's not what Brady did. He specialized in plays designed to throw the ball short and quickly because he was able to survey the defense at the LOS and audible and/or incorporate option routes into the play so his guy was open quickly and quicker = less far downfield. That was Brady's strength as a player.

At least at this stage of his career, Maye doesn't have the same strength for reading defenses and throwing decisively and quickly. And that's not a knock - Brady was the GOAT despite poor athleticism and a relatively limited arm because of how insanely good he was that so it's not a fair standard to hold others to. Maye's strength is on plays that develop downfield where he can see how the defense has shifted and throw into the right spot for the receiver as the defense gets stretched out over the play. By definition it takes more time to develop and works better throwing downfield because that's where the defense spreads out more to create passing lanes.

I think we disagree about definition of Checkdown. I’m taking it as moving off the primary read to another, secondary, receiver. Brady was legendary for spreading the ball around, throwing to the open receiver, which is why I’m saying he was great at checking down.

There may be another aspect to it. Brady was great at reading defenses so he might not have needed to check down as often, because he could decide which receiver was his first look based on what he saw at the line. Maye doesn’t have the same experience at reading defenses at least not yet. But it also seems that Maye has an aversion to checking down, and that’s not good. It’s a self imposed limitation that he needs to overcome if he’s going to be as good as he can possibly be.

 

[Ring 6]

If it keeps him from getting hurt it’s smart.

Being Checkdown Charlie is not a bad thing, it’s a good thing.

TB12 was the ultimate all time Checkdown Charlie.

Maye isn’t Brady. Brady isn’t Maye.

Getting the ball out immediately played to Brady’s strengths.
Extending plays plays to Mayes.

Do you really think we would be where we are if Maye had been coached to get rid of the ball in 2.5 seconds no matter what? Almost every big play we’ve had would not have happened.

We disagree that dink and dunk football is better than playing for chunk plays.

 

[Ring 6]

I think we disagree about definition of Checkdown. I’m taking it as moving off the primary read to another, secondary, receiver. Brady was legendary for spreading the ball around, throwing to the open receiver, which is why I’m saying he was great at checking down.

There may be another aspect to it. Brady was great at reading defenses so he might not have needed to check down as often, because he could decide which receiver was his first look based on what he saw at the line. Maye doesn’t have the same experience at reading defenses at least not yet. But it also seems that Maye has an aversion to checking down, and that’s not good. It’s a self imposed limitation that he needs to overcome if he’s going to be as good as he can possibly be.

Yeah that’s not check down. Check down is abandon the down the field routes and dump it off to a rb or maybe TE.

In this conversation it applies to dink and dunk passes just to get rid of the ball and never risk a pass rush. Maye needs to extend plays, he is deadly when he does.

 

[lancerman]

He just needs to take a bigger drop back and he needs learn the blocking assignments better.

 

[Patsfan1645]

Don’t take it away, but temper it. It’s most effective if not overused. And the threat of it makes everything else better too. So don’t limit everything else.

I agree with what your saying. In fact I think he sometimes stands in the pocket too long and doesn't get out of there fast enough and yet other times he takes off early ( or is that a designed play?). Either way I would like him to make better decisions on when to run and when to stand pat in the hopes of minimizing him hitting the turf. I still believe they need more plays with him rolling out and throwing on the move which he is good at.

 

[n1997y]

We disagree that dink and dunk football is better than playing for chunk plays.

I don’t think either is complete without the other.

When all you go for is chunk plays it’s a boom or bust strategy. When you don’t hit and get behind the chains it’s easy to bust and give up the football without scoring any points.

When all you do is dink and dunk you have higher percentages in your favor on each play but as soon as you make a mistake or get a flag you don’t have as good ability to get the chunk required to get back on schedule. So you end up forced to give up the ball without scoring any points.

You have to be able to do both to be a complete football team.

 

[Ring 6]

I don’t think either is complete without the other.

When all you go for is chunk plays it’s a boom or bust strategy. When you don’t hit and get behind the chains it’s easy to bust and give up the football without scoring any points.

When all you do is dink and dunk you have higher percentages in your favor on each play but as soon as you make a mistake or get a flag you don’t have as good ability to get the chunk required to get back on schedule. So you end up forced to give up the ball without scoring any points.

You have to be able to do both to be a complete football team.

Well of course some of each has to be included in any offense, but it’s the approach that matters. If you build your offense around short to deep progressions you limit your chances to make any plays down the field. Equally you can’t throw deep every play.

But I think we have gotten off track of the discussion and into defining terms.

The discussion at hand is people suggesting that Maye should be coached to throw the ball away rather than extend plays. I strongly disagree with that.

The checkdown piece really comes down to what you consider open. One of Mac Jones flaws in 2021 when it all unravelled was he passed up open receivers on deep to short reads consistently and “checked down”. That created the scheming that had defenses flood the short areas, and blitz him because there was little risk of him taking advantage of open intermediate and deep routes, and that season collapsed.
Maye has his own definition of what open means and it’s a very aggressive one, and his ability to make those throws makes that the correct approach. Maye shouldn’t be a check down guy (I disagree Brady was also, Brady was just lightning quick in his progressions) he should use his arm talent.

Of course we also need short to deep reads in the offense, but we should be running more deep to short than any other team. The consequence is a sack here or there or Maye running often for nice gains. That’s much more effective than trying to dink and dunk all the way down the field.

 

[dliverey44]

Why do people insist on taking the guy who is playing like an MVP by being aggressive and try to turn him into Chad Pennington.

Throwing the ball away, checking down, being afraid to take a hit and all BAD things compared to what Maye does.

I don't think people are suggesting that we turn him into Pennington or other QBs like that, but there is nothing wrong pointing out areas that Maye could improve that would help the OL.

He is playing amazing QB, but that does not mean that he can't improve. You seem to be taking Maye criticism personally. Dude is a stud.

If the choices are keeping his play as is or add in throw aways, taking a shorter route and not extending plays. Then I would rather the former. But it is possible to be both

 

[Ring 6]

I don't think people are suggesting that we turn him into Pennington or other QBs like that, but there is nothing wrong pointing out areas that Maye could improve that would help the OL.

He is playing amazing QB, but that does not mean that he can't improve. You seem to be taking Maye criticism personally. Dude is a stud.

If the choices are keeping his play as is or add in throw aways, taking a shorter route and not extending plays. Then I would rather the former. But it is possible to be both

Well it may not be what you are suggesting but others are.

 

[Wozzy]

We saw what jail break horrid offensive line play looked like last year… with Drake.

We see Drake be the most effective deep ball passer in the league this season. You can’t be the best at deep ball passing and worst in pass blocking at the same time… especially with one receiver with 4.4 speed on the roster.

Listen to Drake when he tells you it’s on him. He needs to improve every aspect of QB’ing, we should take heart in the fact this is a top 15 offense now despite the learning curve… he can get a lot better.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Drake is not Brady and the one thing that Drake can do that Brady could not is run. So I would prefer we not try to take away that aspect of his game as it has more upside than not.

Yes, a lot of his sacks start out the same as his successful runs. Sometimes he’s able to squirt thru, and other times he’s brought down near the los.

 

[PP2]

I want Drake Maye to hold the ball and extend plays when he can break free from the defender and complete the pass downfield. BUT if he can't break free or the pass isn't there to complete I want him to throw it away or check it down.

Pretty simple concept, but in reality he isn't psychic to know automatically what the right move is every time. I think you kind of have to accept how he plays and live with the results. Asking Maye to be a checkdown Charlie probably isn't playing to his strengths.

He's taken some sacks in the red zone that I don't like. And sometimes defenses play a certain way that dictates more checkdowns and quick throws. I think situationally and against teams playing a certain way I'd like to see him shift his mindset, but overall I think we should accept that he's the kind of QB who is going to take some sacks to chase big plays and that's ok because he's good at making them.

i don't want him taking off every time he thinks a play is going to break down because once you develop a habit of doing that, it interferes with your discipline to stay in the pocket, stay tall, and check down properly because your mind has already taken off and your happy feet prevents a proper follow-through.

 

[n1997y]

Why do people insist on taking the guy who is playing like an MVP by being aggressive and try to turn him into Chad Pennington.

I don't think people are suggesting that we turn him into Pennington or other QBs like that, but there is nothing wrong pointing out areas that Maye could improve that would help the OL.

And help Drake Maye.

I agree, nobody is trying to turn him into Chad Pennngton.

I think the idea is to keep him from turning into Tua Tagovailoa, spending more time in concussion protocol than on the field.

If the choices are keeping his play as is or add in throw aways, taking a shorter route and not extending plays. Then I would rather the former. But it is possible to be both

Exactly. Andy loves arguing everything as a dichotomy with two mutually exclusive alternatives, when most of the time the suggestion is adding to Maye’s repertoire not replacing it.

 

[Tunescribe]

He is a 23 year old QB in year one of a rebuild. He has been playing out of his mind, and we forget he has many growing pains still to come. The oline was abysmal last year and is playing so much better, but it still needs time and more talent. Its stunning that two rookies are starters. They ceilings are massive. I just think its a combo of everything right now.

Nice, thoughtful post without calling someone names or threatening violence against their family. Good job!