Does BB trust Josh McDaniels too much?

[Triumph]

An old saw says the most popular guy in town is the backup QB.

Apparently, the least popular guy in town is the offensive coordinator.

The scheme svcks.

There is no doubt in my mind that Weis could do a better job in the post season with the players on the roster today. When I saw the failed pass to Slater on 3rd down, I knew that the game was over.

 

[Rob0729]

Quoting this for its priceless humor.

So the claim is the coordinator had zero influence in that draft selection, it was just his random kid brother who somehow convinced the head coach of the New England Patriots to draft the RB that he coached in Minnesota.

And yet I'm not following how that explains why Denver then later spent (wasted) a 4th round pick on the same bust running back, who quickly flamed out.



It's all water under the bridge. The Amendola ex-Ram signing is even more killer because the cap hit is too big to do anything for a few years at least, and it's probably going to mean the team can't re-sign Edelman who has more heart in his pinky than Amendola has in his entire body.

Everyone on the Patriots coaching staff have input on the draft, but Michael Holley documented many cases in The War Room how Belichick would disregard advice of the scouting and coaching staff and even his trusted friends in the college coaching ranks if he is high or not high on a players.

You only quote the one part about Maroney from the book (which you incorrectly quoted until I corrected you that Ben McDaniels vouched for Maroney, not Josh McDaniels). But you ingore that the coaching and scouting staff hated Chad Jackson yet Belichick loved him and drafted him anyway or how Urban Meyers told Belichick to draft Carlos Dunlap and not Jermaine Cunningham although Belichick loved Cunningham.

The funny thing is everyone complains that since Pioli is gone, there is no one who can sway Belichick's opinions. McDaniels haters feel that McDaniels has this Svengali type of control over Belichick and has 100% control over offensive personnel. It can't be both.

McDaniels has input on personnel, but Belichick and Caserio makes the final calls. If the Pats go after Decker this offseason, it isn't because McDaniels drafted him. It is because Belichick feels he will be a good fit for the team.

 

[MTM558]

Hindsight bias is a wonderful thing to experience. Of course everything sucks and everything is wrong with the Patriots and McDaniels because they just lost on Sunday.

 

[fumbrunner]

McDaniels the coach? :yeeha:

McDaniels the personnel evaluator? :bricks:

 

[DropKickFlutie]

McDaniels the coach? :yeeha:

McDaniels the personnel evaluator? :bricks:

Agree with you on poor talent evaluation.

Disagree on the coach thing.

Without Brady, this coach lost his last 16 straight games in Denver, then ran the worst offense in the NFL in St Louis. Brady made his career.

 

[Deus Irae]

The scheme svcks.

There is no doubt in my mind that Weis could do a better job in the post season with the players on the roster today. When I saw the failed pass to Slater on 3rd down, I knew that the game was over.

Oh, the irony is glorious. :singing:

 

[Rob0729]

Agree with you on poor talent evaluation.

Disagree on the coach thing.

Without Brady, this coach lost his last 16 straight games in Denver, then ran the worst offense in the NFL in St Louis. Brady made his career.

Yeah, imagine if he drafted well in Denver, the Broncos might be going to the Super Bowl next week. Instead of drafting that bum Demarius Thomas, he could have drafted Arrelious Benn who went a dozen or two picks later. Instead of Eric Decker, he could have gotten Andre Roberts, Armanti Edwards, and Taylor Price whom were drafted with the next three picks.

 

[SalemPats]

Agree with you on poor talent evaluation.

Disagree on the coach thing.

Without Brady, this coach lost his last 16 straight games in Denver, then ran the worst offense in the NFL in St Louis. Brady made his career.

It's funny how great QBs create a string of coaches. People are calling Gase a genius now, and he might very well be, but I want to see what he can do with a Dalton

 

[Triumph]

Oh, the irony is glorious. :singing:

Howz the GuMbo?

Say hey to BB from all of us.

 

[Observer]

Agree with you on poor talent evaluation.

Disagree on the coach thing.

Without Brady, this coach lost his last 16 straight games in Denver, then ran the worst offense in the NFL in St Louis. Brady made his career.

You could say a similar sort of thing about Belichick.

 

[Brady6]

Agree with you on poor talent evaluation.

Disagree on the coach thing.

Without Brady, this coach lost his last 16 straight games in Denver, then ran the worst offense in the NFL in St Louis. Brady made his career.

McDaniels hit a high note in 2007 and 2008 with Brady’s record setting season and then what he did with Cassel. He started his coaching career great but then I think he lost his mind a bit and let the success go to his head because as you pointed out he finished up in Denver losing 20 of his final 26 games and then went on to lead the worst offense in the NFL to a 2-14 record in St Louis. My hope is that being with Belichick can right the ship because I do think McDaniels has the talent to be a great coordinator I just consider him to be very, very immature and he seems to have a really hard time working with star players not named Tom Brady.

I will say anyone who does not believe that McDaniels has input into the signings of this team’s offensive weapons over the past 2 seasons is freaking delusional as the day is long.

• Danny Amendola
• Brandon Lloyd
• Greg Salas
• Michael Hoomanawanui
• Spencer Larsen
• Jabar Gaffney
• Donte Stallworth

Every single one of those players have a connection to McDaniels in the 1-2 years leading up to their signing here. As I said some of the signing made sense at the time anyway but that doesn’t change the fact that McDaniels absolutely positively was a driving factor in the decisions to bring these guys on board and anyone who suggests otherwise believes far to much in coincidences.

 

[Brady6]

McDaniels the coach? :yeeha:

McDaniels the personnel evaluator? :bricks:

JM does a good job drafting offensive talent with the exception of Tebow, he is awful with free agent signings however and that is mostly because he likes to recycle way too much. I don’t know if he is that great of a coach, I see regression in some players and positive growth in others, I think like his evaluating talent ability he has positives and negatives.

I hated (as a coach) McDaniels not to long ago but I will tell you that he earned a lot of points in my mind when he turned down the Cleveland job, that self-recognition that he was not ready to be a head coach yet showed me that he is interested in developing more under Belichick and the ego that appeared to go out of control in Denver has been eliminated moving forward.

 

[SalemPats]

JM does a good job drafting offensive talent with the exception of Tebow, he is awful with free agent signings however and that is mostly because he likes to recycle way too much. I don’t know if he is that great of a coach, I see regression in some players and positive growth in others, I think like his evaluating talent ability he has positives and negatives.

I hated (as a coach) McDaniels not to long ago but I will tell you that he earned a lot of points in my mind when he turned down the Cleveland job, that self-recognition that he was not ready to be a head coach yet showed me that he is interested in developing more under Belichick and the ego that appeared to go out of control in Denver has been eliminated moving forward.

The fact that he drafted Tebow in the 1st round speaks volumes. That's embarassing and disgusting.

 

[Brady6]

The fact that he drafted Tebow in the 1st round speaks volumes. That's embarassing and disgusting.

You don’t get it; if you did you and the others would not have an issue with what I am saying because it is accurate, the fact that you all keep debating it or attempting to discredit implies that you cannot comprehend the reality which I am attempting to show you. Stop saying his is not overpaid, he is anytime someone else does a job for $750K (Edelman) better than you and you’re making $5,700,000 million and you’re both on your second contract on the same team, with the same QB and you’ve been given the same opportunity you’re overpaid that is just reality, blame it on a groin injury, the dog eating his playbook whatever you want in 2013 Amendola was overpaid as was many other players on the Patriots who were paid to render services and for whatever reason were unable to do so.

Or I could reading too much into it, everyone has bad picks Tebow went 25th and actually did more than Dowling did for us at 33rd so I cannot hold the Tebow pick against him too much, I was glad he did it at the time I was horrified Bill was going to make that fatal mistake.

 

[Patsrock]

Without Brady, this coach lost his last 16 straight games in Denver

No he actually didn't lose his last 16.

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

No he actually didn't lose his last 16.

This. I was wondering how long it would take to point this out.

Also I'm going to grammar police here for a minute....Why on Earth did the OP spell the name McDaniel's? It's McDaniels. There is no apostrophe in his last name. If we're going to bag on someone please know the person's name. His name is not McDaniel, and it certainly is not McDaniel is.

Before anyone barks at me for being a grammar policeman, the way we communicate on this forum is by writing (typing, as it were). It's not too much to ask to not hurt the eyes of the people who are reading what you post. In fact, I would argue that if you want to be taken seriously, the easiest way to start is to know how to spell people's names.

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Belichick to his credit listens to the input of his coaches in personnel decisions from draft, to FA, to trades.
Unfortunately, the offensive coordinator isn't that good at personnel. He's horrible at it. Michael Holley in his book specifically says they drafted the bust RB Laurence Maroney because the coordinator's kid brother coached Maroney in Minnesota. The Broncos then wasted a 4th rounder trading for Maroney, who quickly flamed out over there.

Look at offensive acquisitions the past two seasons, a bunch of ex-Bronco and ex-Ram players, or rookies worked out by the coordinator:

Danny Amendola
Greg Salas
Tim Tebow
Brandon Lloyd
Michael Hoomanawanui
Kenbrell Thompson
Aaron Dobson
Josh Boyce
Zach Sudfeld

One more year of bad offensive acquisitions and this offense will go downhill. Too many misses. Amendola is going to HURT the team for years to come, $29M over 5 years down the drain which is also going to make it hard to keep Edelman.

Salas was a practice squad player. ThompKINS and Sudfeld were undrafted free agents. Hooman has been a solid, dependable, league average tight end. Why are these bad acquisitions? I have many bridges I would like to sell you if you feel that every UDFA should turn in to Wes Welker or John Randle.

 

[moejr]

The scheme svcks.

There is no doubt in my mind that Weis could do a better job in the post season with the players on the roster today. When I saw the failed pass to Slater on 3rd down, I knew that the game was over.

I will go you one better and wager a Weis led offense would have not lost the last 2 SB's we were in.

 

[Patsrock]

I will go you one better and wager a Weis led offense would have not lost the last 2 SB's we were in.

Which one would he have won?

The Josh McDaniels OC or Bill O'Brien OC

 

[Rob0729]

McDaniels hit a high note in 2007 and 2008 with Brady’s record setting season and then what he did with Cassel. He started his coaching career great but then I think he lost his mind a bit and let the success go to his head because as you pointed out he finished up in Denver losing 20 of his final 26 games and then went on to lead the worst offense in the NFL to a 2-14 record in St Louis. My hope is that being with Belichick can right the ship because I do think McDaniels has the talent to be a great coordinator I just consider him to be very, very immature and he seems to have a really hard time working with star players not named Tom Brady.

I will say anyone who does not believe that McDaniels has input into the signings of this team’s offensive weapons over the past 2 seasons is freaking delusional as the day is long.

• Danny Amendola
• Brandon Lloyd
• Greg Salas
• Michael Hoomanawanui
• Spencer Larsen
• Jabar Gaffney
• Donte Stallworth

Every single one of those players have a connection to McDaniels in the 1-2 years leading up to their signing here. As I said some of the signing made sense at the time anyway but that doesn’t change the fact that McDaniels absolutely positively was a driving factor in the decisions to bring these guys on board and anyone who suggests otherwise believes far to much in coincidences.

Ummm... Both Stallworth and Gaffney were signed by the Patriots when McDaniels was here before leaving as a head coach. Kinda making a stretch there. The first time Gaffney played here, McDaniels was a first year OC and he was a second year OC when Stallworth. Hell Pioli was still here too.

Also, the only time Stallworth ever played for McDaniels was in a Patriots uniform. He never played for McDaniels in Denver or St. Louis. You are stretching things here.

Of all the guys you mentioned, the Pats only spent any capital on Amendola. Lloyd signed on the cheap and earned his money with a decent year for decent money. Salas, Larsen, and Hoomanawanui were bottom of the roster guys. Hoomanawanui only got significant playing time AFTER Hernandez went to jail, Fells and Ballard were cut because they were too injured to play, Sudfeld flamed out as a starter, and Gronk were injured. Hoomanawanui was the sixth or seventh option that was forced into action.

If McDaniels influences bottom of the roster guys, who cares? The only significant players you can say he influenced Belichick decision was Amendola and the jury is still out on him. All the other other guys were bottom of the roster guys who the Pats took fliers on.

Which was a worse signing? Adrian Wilson who was supposed to get significant playing time and couldn't make it out of camp. Or Hoomanawanui who was supposed to be a bottom of the roster development player as a third or fourth TE and was thrust into the starting role due to circumstances that couldn't have been imagined? Yet, we are making a big deal about a guy who actually produced this year rather than the biggest named free agent the Pats added who flamed out.