Do you think Moss will be re-signed at the end of the year?? [merged]

[pats1]

Re: Randy Moss-Observational Accuracy

Seriously... isn't this basically the same thread:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=57968

EDIT: And now it is lol

Yeah, I meant to merge it the other way, but oh well (so now this thread has a rating of 1).

 

[RobertWeathers]

Re: Randy Moss-Observational Accuracy

Believe me guys, I'm not staying up nights over this. But for those types of observations to keep comming up again and again, it should be something considered and used as a reference point in case Moss doesn't work out here. Admit it or not, it is a storyline that will not go away if his performance is lackluster.

You have a 30 year NFL personnel vet like Pat Kirwan who BB has made repeated attempts to join his staff who makes the statement that Moss will be just fine (I agree, he will), but when the offense messes up in practice, he back jogging with the o-linemen.

For a team that requires maximum effort out of it's players all the time, IMO it's worth noting.

My .02$

 

[pats1]

Re: Randy Moss-Observational Accuracy

Believe me guys, I'm not staying up nights over this. But for those types of observations to keep comming up again and again, it should be something considered and used as a reference point in case Moss doesn't work out here. Admit it or not, it is a storyline that will not go away if his performance is lackluster.

Being last in a drill?

Give me a freakin' break. This is ridiculous.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Re: Randy Moss-Observational Accuracy

Being last in a drill?

Give me a freakin' break. This is ridiculous.

I'm not sure what you are saying is ridiculous. Is it because this thread is no longer noteworthy or in your opinion Moss' practice habits are irrelevent as it relates to how his teammates and coaching staff respect him and how Moss respects the team? Please clarify.

 

[Rob0729]

I have been on record already that I think Moss is using this year to cash in next year. He is using the Pats to rehabilitate his image and his receiving numbers. I really think if he puts up big numbers, he is going to want to be paid and I can't see the Pats giving a big deal to a 31 year old WR.

Personally, I will be happy with one good year out of him and let him go his own way. I think that he is playing for a contract will keep him in line and not dog it and complain when Brady looks elsewhere to throw the ball. With a big deal, I don't know if he will be the good soldier he will probably be this year. I think Moss is definitely a guy who needs motivation to get him interested.

 

[khayos]

Re: Randy Moss-Observational Accuracy

I'm not sure what you are saying is ridiculous. Is it because this thread is no longer noteworthy or in your opinion Moss' practice habits are irrelevent as it relates to how his teammates and coaching staff respect him and how Moss respects the team? Please clarify.

If I had to venture a guess, it's because you're looking for opinions that can't be based upon any evidence or fact -- essentially mindless pontificating that doesn't serve the reading public as a whole.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Re: Randy Moss-Observational Accuracy

If I had to venture a guess, it's because you're looking for opinions that can't be based upon any evidence or fact -- essentially mindless pontificating that doesn't serve the reading public as a whole.

Incorrect. Someone 1/2 assing practice on this team will get a ticket out of here. See Doug Gabriel. Steve Martin. Duane Starks. etc.

Look, all I wanted to know if people have seen Moss dogging it, or they haven't. If you have been to camp and can provide me and the forum with your observations, great. If not, I'd love to read your thoughts anyway.

If you feel that I'm off-base with even being concerned about Randy Moss' practice habits, fine. That's your opinion and I will defend my reasoning why I think it's worth keeping an eye on.

99% of this whole BB is opinion and speculation anyway. Let's not take each other too seriously, huh?

 

[pats1]

Re: Randy Moss-Observational Accuracy

Incorrect. Someone 1/2 assing practice on this team will get a ticket out of here. See Doug Gabriel. Steve Martin. Duane Starks. etc.

Look, all I wanted to know if people have seen Moss dogging it, or they haven't. If you have been to camp and can provide me and the forum with your observations, great. If not, I'd love to read your thoughts anyway.

If you feel that I'm off-base with even being concerned about Randy Moss' practice habits, fine. That's your opinion and I will defend my reasoning why I think it's worth keeping an eye on.

99% of this whole BB is opinion and speculation anyway. Let's not take each other too seriously, huh?

You're trying to stir up **** and make something out of nothing. I'm not going to even answer you, because your proposition is so ridiculous.

I'm going down to practice tomorrow night, and I'm sure as hell not going to spend my time keeping track of what place in line Moss takes in every drill. Or if he smiles after catching a ball.

This is ridiculous.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Re: Randy Moss-Observational Accuracy

You're trying to stir up **** and make something out of nothing. I'm not going to even answer you, because your proposition is so ridiculous.

I'm going down to practice tomorrow night, and I'm sure as hell not going to spend my time keeping track of what place in line Moss takes in every drill. Or if he smiles after catching a ball.

This is ridiculous.

Whatever man. Enjoy practice.

 

[pats1]

Re: Randy Moss-Observational Accuracy

Whatever man. Enjoy practice.

Honestly, what are you looking for? Just because he had a few problems in Oakland with friggin' Andrew Walter and that tremendous Raiders club he needs to be followed around and scrutinized at every turn here?

And if he doesn't run full speed back from every catch that means he's dogging it and should be cut? Or if he's wearing no gloves on a particular day that means he's taking a day off and doesn't want to practice full-speed? Or if he doesn't sign autographs for fans that means he's a prick?

When will it end?

I've been impressed with the local media not trying to fabricate stories like this so far. But it's disappointing to see fans (or a fan) trying to.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Ok so if Moss say is let go...does that mean they will keep Stallworth?? I see them keeping Moss more that keeping Stallworth next year...

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Ok so if Moss say is let go...does that mean they will keep Stallworth?? I see them keeping Moss more that keeping Stallworth next year...

It depends whether the difference between Moss and Stallworth is 4 years (the age difference), or 50 catches (for instance.) Obviously, the possibility exists that Stallworth outshines Moss, despite the happy Moss-watching in camp. We just don't know how this translates into the season.

It is also possible that the far-smarter-than-me film watchers will decide, screw it, our RB situation has been cheaply put to rest for a few years, what could it hurt?

And of course, the cap is inflating every year nowadays, and rapidly at that.

There are a lot of things I don't know: what's the thinking about preserving a sizeable "middle class"? What is the trajectory for the "middle" in the midst of this cap inflation? Is the old "large middle class, few huge stars" model a thing of the past, a product of a younger team?

In other words, if this passing game really takes off, and the value is there, why not keep both? But at the same time... where does the money come from for the trenches, unless we work deals that front-load to 08 (skip the stallworth proration and make it salary...?), or back-load to the point where we're basically whipping out the credit card? Or, here's a concept: Maybe Moss realizes he's in the 5-years-left category, has made his money, and decides he likes rings better. Fans LOVE this notion... it may be wishful thinking, but if it's not...?

Eh well. That's the out years. For this year we have the makings of a truly explosive offense for the first time in years. We should never be out of a game.

Let's see if all that even pans out before we worry about keeping all the receivers signed right now.

(PS - Chad Jackson had better be coming along some this season.)

 

[JoeSixPat]

Moss is a free agent at the end of the season - that means there's two possibilities. He has as great season and 31 other teams want him as well as us- or he has an average to crappy season and no one wants him or he only commands average money.

Now, Moss is what Moss is - and if he has a great season he'll want a BIG TIME payday - that's why he was willing to play for $3 million this season on a SB contender - in the hopes of having a big season and big payday.

So let's say he has a good year - would we be willing to pay him big money? Probably.

Would a handful of other teams be willing to pay him more - even overpay him? Definately.

Would Moss take less than top dollar to remain here and go for additional SB rings?

I'd put that in the unlikely category. Put me down for 25% chance he stays, 75% chance he goes - and I think I'm being generous in an assessment that Moss will not be JUST about the money next year.

 

[JoeSixPat]

By the way - Stallworth is really in the same situation - with the only difference being, we've got the right of first refusal should he have a big enough year to justify the 2nd year of his contract.

If he's good but not great I'd expect us to renegotiate with him with a decent incentive laden contract - but Stallworth might balk and force our hand to cut him to see what he can get on the open market.

While its a tad bit silly to be raising these issues now - once one looks at who we have signed at WR next year - and sees that, recognizing Stallworth's contract could also be a one year deal - its worth speculating as to who will be around.

I believe all we have signed of signficance are Jackson and Welker. Gaffney, Caldwell, Washington, Stallworth and Moss all could go elsewhere, without a doubt.

A

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

Moss could definitely do that.

But he's already spent seasons cruising on sh!tboats, so his thought processes may be a little different than what you've enumerated.

I'm sure he has less than pleasant memories of the past few seasons. The thing is, if he has a good year year and enjoys himself here, he may find a new, different comfort level, one to which he is unaccustomed, but, given his age and length of service, one that he may want to enjoy for a while longer yet.

Besides, he's already made enough money to feed his family....

 

[RobertWeathers]

Re: Randy Moss-Observational Accuracy

Honestly, what are you looking for? Just because he had a few problems in Oakland with friggin' Andrew Walter and that tremendous Raiders club he needs to be followed around and scrutinized at every turn here?

And if he doesn't run full speed back from every catch that means he's dogging it and should be cut? Or if he's wearing no gloves on a particular day that means he's taking a day off and doesn't want to practice full-speed? Or if he doesn't sign autographs for fans that means he's a prick?

When will it end?

I've been impressed with the local media not trying to fabricate stories like this so far. But it's disappointing to see fans (or a fan) trying to.

What have I fabricated? What pot am I stirring? Are you that willing to bury your head in the sand and not at least invest in the slightest bit of curiosity in seeing if Moss is making every effort to follow the "Patriot Way", a "Way" that we know leads to Super Bowls?

Breer, Tomase, Reiss and Kirwan have said positive things about Moss. They've also commented on his practice habits. Go back and read their notes. I'm not making anything up. Have you read their articles?

This organization puts a tremendous amount of emphasis on how a player practices has an impact on how/if he plays. Moss' history of loafing goes beyond Oakland an you know it (See 2000 NFC Champ. game. ). Why can't you see that?

If throughout his career, he played with the same level of intensity as say Troy Brown, we wouldnt be having this conversation.

The concern I have with Moss will end the same way it did when Dillion joined the team. He kept his mouth shut. He played hard and they won a SB.

 

[pats1]

Re: Randy Moss-Observational Accuracy

What have I fabricated? What pot am I stirring? Are you that willing to bury your head in the sand and not at least invest in the slightest bit of curiosity in seeing if Moss is making every effort to follow the "Patriot Way"; a "way" that we know leads to Super Bowls?

Breer, Tomase, Reiss and Kirwan have said positive things about Moss. They've also commented on his practice habits. Go back and read thier notes. I'm not making anything up. Have you read their articles?

This organization puts a tremendous amount of emphasis on how a player practices has an impact on how/if he plays. Moss' history of loafing goes beyond Oakland an you know it (See 2000 NFC Champ. game. ). Why can't you see that?

If throughout his career, he played with the same level of intensity as say Troy Brown, we wouldnt be having this conversation.

You can come tell me whenever something happens with Moss. But nobody will go looking for something to make a story about with him.

Give me a break. Give the guy a chance. Somebody who happens to make the decisions around here has already done just that.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Re: Randy Moss-Observational Accuracy

You can come tell me whenever something happens with Moss. But nobody will go looking for something to make a story about with him.

Give me a break. Give the guy a chance. Somebody who happens to make the decisions around here has already done just that.

Alright....truce. You've heard me out and I've heard you.

Now that I'm out in the open as an anti-Moss guy, I like every Pats fan hope he kicks ass here. He has a good support system in place here, certainly ones better than MN and OAK. I'm skeptical. Old habits are tough to kill.

As they say, We shall see.

Here we go!

 

[khayos]

Re: Randy Moss-Observational Accuracy

You can come tell me whenever something happens with Moss. But nobody will go looking for something to make a story about with him.

Give me a break. Give the guy a chance. Somebody who happens to make the decisions around here has already done just that.

Let's just play his game:

"No, I am not concerned about Randy Moss' effort. I trust that people who actually interact with him on a daily basis will be able to make a much better judgment on this than I, so I will not start threads or blow smoke because I have no clue what I'm talking about."

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Weathers, I for one appreciate your attitude of "just letting it go." I was the world's biggest Moss-hater, then of course when we got him, in my mind, he became misunderstood, so maligned in the media, etc.

I think it's telling that he says things like "[Belichick] will be able to motivate me," etc. I mean, I think he's right, and I hope he is absorbing kool-aid through every pore here. But I like guys with an internal locus of control, if given the choice.

Of course, if you have to have a guy who dogs it sometimes, takes plays off, and has the external locus of control, it's great if he comes with freakish athletic skills, hands made of flypaper, and a respect for your organization.

We've got a season to see how it plays out... it would be great if he looked around and said, "Damn... they don't do anything on this team but play football. And that's kinda fun!" We can always hope...

But at least for this year, we've got a guy that's pumped to play for a champion and has the tools to help get us there.

GO RANDY!

PFnV