Do you think Kiper knows what the coaches know?

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RayClay

Hall of Fame Poster
Even if he turns out to be Ronnie Lott, it is still an awful pick. Even if the Pats heard. other teams think he was moving up their draft boards it was still an awfull pick. For this player to go anywhere near the 2nd means the pats did not optimize their value.

Than when you combine that with a wierd trade of a 2 for a low 3 and a low 5, this was a horrible night all around for the Pats. hell they probably could have drafted ilson with the low 5th they got a for a 2. 2nd rd draft picks are valuable commodities, BB traded it away like it had herpes. Love day 1, hate day 2.

So, it's not about the team, it's about the perfect draft board?

I myself would take Lott and be happy.
 

Patriot Missile

Pro Bowl Player
I don't agree with a lot of Kipers views but I do at least recognize him as one of the pioneers of the NFL draft coverage. The guy has a great memory and for him to put the names of just about every player into his head has always amazed me. Dude is an encyclopedia but he's got a lot of inaccurate wikopedia in some of his analysis of these players. Especially when it come to the Patriots who are 1 of a kind.

I don't think he is privy to the coaches like he used to be but he does has all the access all the footage and his is paid to attend games and commentate. Personally I like other guys better out there but because of his long history in his job he will always be relevant. And deservedly so.
 

Why?PJ

On the Game Day Roster
I don't agree with a lot of Kipers views but I do at least recognize him as one of the pioneers of the NFL draft coverage. The guy has a great memory and for him to put the names of just about every player into his head has always amazed me. Dude is an encyclopedia but he's got a lot of inaccurate wikopedia in some of his analysis of these players. Especially when it come to the Patriots who are 1 of a kind.

I don't think he is privy to the coaches like he used to be but he does has all the access all the footage and his is paid to attend games and commentate. Personally I like other guys better out there but because of his long history in his job he will always be relevant. And deservedly so.

he never had any insider knowledge. No one employed by any NFL team has told him anything, and it has been made rather clear they all hate his guts. Can't blame them.
 

cmasspatsfan

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Im surprised in this day and age of the internet and instant information that they still trot Mel Kiper out there every year. Hes just rating talent and has no clue how to build a team or more specifically how BB builds a team. He was useful and actually interesting back 20 years or so ago but who really needs mel freaking Kiper today.
 

Ring 6

PatsFans.com Wall of Fame Member
we could've used some DLine depth... Reyes, Still, Ta'Amu... not that they'd be a superstar pro bowler... but we need more big bodies on that line...

You can hate the player that was picked, but the position is indisputably a huge need.
We are almost desperate for S help. On second thought take out the almost.
 

ausbacker

TB12
PatsFans.com Supporter
The thing that aggravates me about Kiper Jr is that if someone disagrees with his opinion, he stares directly at them, raises his voice and starts to become argumentative rather than discuss topics/players. Talking loudly doesn't make you right, it makes you look like a self absorbed simpleton incapable of debating.
 

Ring 6

PatsFans.com Wall of Fame Member
Even if he turns out to be Ronnie Lott, it is still an awful pick. Even if the Pats heard. other teams think he was moving up their draft boards it was still an awfull pick. For this player to go anywhere near the 2nd means the pats did not optimize their value.

Than when you combine that with a wierd trade of a 2 for a low 3 and a low 5, this was a horrible night all around for the Pats. hell they probably could have drafted ilson with the low 5th they got a for a 2. 2nd rd draft picks are valuable commodities, BB traded it away like it had herpes. Love day 1, hate day 2.

Wait. Did you honestly say if he turns out to be a HOFer and we would have lost him by trading down, it was a terrible pick?
How do you justify that opinion?
 

patsfan13

Hall of Fame Poster
PatsFans.com Supporter
Kiper has his board which is based on his abstraction of talent. The Patriots have their board based on talent. However the analysis for the Patriots includes how a player fits THEIR SCHEME and THEIR LOCKER ROOM. Kiper little book doesn't and really can't factor that in for 32 teams.

When Kiper criticizes a team when the diverge from his board it is silly since he doesn't know a teams scheme and loker room needs as well as teams with competent management and team philosophy.


BTW making the Patriots roster is a lot tougher than making a lot of other rosters.
 

cmasspatsfan

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Even if he turns out to be Ronnie Lott, it is still an awful pick. Even if the Pats heard. other teams think he was moving up their draft boards it was still an awfull pick. For this player to go anywhere near the 2nd means the pats did not optimize their value.

Than when you combine that with a wierd trade of a 2 for a low 3 and a low 5, this was a horrible night all around for the Pats. hell they probably could have drafted ilson with the low 5th they got a for a 2. 2nd rd draft picks are valuable commodities, BB traded it away like it had herpes. Love day 1, hate day 2.

If he turns out to be Ronnie Lott BB will be hailed as a genious and I think most would agree. Dont understand your reasoning, BB doesnt pick binkies, he builds super bowl contending teams.
 

serifyn

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
Belichick like smart, Versatile and Coachable players who love to study the game, this kid looks like he falls under that catagory.

you can go out there and get a horse who has all of the measurables but none of the dedication and have him running around lost back there when adjustments need to be made, or you can have a guy who who puts the extra time in, learns all of the facets of the defense and is in the right place in the right time to make a play, that is what this is all about.

Guys are rising and falling all the time during the draft process, 3 months ago, Chandler Jones was a rated as a 3rd or 4th round pick, yet he is a pick many people are happy about today.

I trust Belichick and the Scouting Staff, there was many other players available who im sure would have been a more flashy pick, but rest assured, Belichick made this pick instead of them because he feels that this move makes his team better than another pick at the same draft spot would have.
 

Seneschal2

In the Starting Line-Up
Even if he turns out to be Ronnie Lott, it is still an awful pick.

:ugh:

The Pats do not draft according to consensus rankings. They seek out players who fit their system based on specific criteria. The Pats scouts and coaches know this criteria, the Kipers of the world do not.

Some sleeper picks are known, and some are not. Facts are -- some do succeed. And when they do, they become known as draft day steals. And if they play like Ronnie Lott -- the HOF awaits. But can we please allow him to don a Pats uni first...
 

Armchair Quarterback

In the Starting Line-Up
Kiper has his board which is based on his abstraction of talent. The Patriots have their board based on talent. However the analysis for the Patriots includes how a player fits THEIR SCHEME and THEIR LOCKER ROOM. Kiper little book doesn't and really can't factor that in for 32 teams.

When Kiper criticizes a team when the diverge from his board it is silly since he doesn't know a teams scheme and loker room needs as well as teams with competent management and team philosophy.


BTW making the Patriots roster is a lot tougher than making a lot of other rosters.

As evidenced by Sergio Brown, Ray Ventrone and Tiquan Underwood
 

DaBruinz

Pats, B's, Sox
PatsFans.com Supporter
I don't. Seems to me he is totally mystified by some pretty decent picks and touts lots of busts every year.

If he's clueless about Tavon, I'm actually encouraged. Who's to say a few coaches didn't go to Illinois looking for someone else and made a note about this guy?

What exactly does Kyper know about playing football anyway? I don't think BB decides to spend a two on a seventh round pick for no reason, I really don't.


Someone mentioned that Wilson had 6 or 7 team visits in the couple weeks leading up to the draft.

As for Kiper, he's a Buschbaum wannabe. The problem is that Kiper couldn't lift one of Buschbaum's notepads on a player.

The more and more it goes, the more and more I feel that Kiper some how feels insulted that he never has had any of the teams coming to him to ask his opinion on players the way that Buschbaum had. Heck, I know that BB tried to hire Buschbaum when BB first got the Cleveland job and then, again when BB got the Pats job. But Buschbaum turned him down because Buschbaum was too much of a Giant's fan..
 

DaBruinz

Pats, B's, Sox
PatsFans.com Supporter
Hey, I hope you're right. Your assessment here makes sense. But NFP, among others, didn't even list Wilson among the 30+ safeties rated for the draft - half of which weren't likely to be drafted at all.

I don't complain about BB's picks - I give them and BB some time - but this pick is so far off primarily because of the talent still on the board that had to be rated much, much higher even by the Pats. There were still several 1st round talents hanging around when Wilson was picked. That's what makes this a deflating pick. Vinny Curry or Tavin Wilson? Rueben Randle or Wilson? I could go on the point is obvious...

Here's the thing. BB clearly had Bequette and Wilson rated higher than Curry. So what does it matter if Curry was rated as a 1st rounder by some hack site? The Pats didn't have a 1st round grade on him. And they clearly didn't have a 2nd round grade on Curry or they'd have taken him over settling for Bequette.

As for Reuben Randle, the Pats are stacked at WR currently with only 1 space open really and they have 4 or 5 players already fighting for it. They could have tried to trade down and got no offers, but we don't know.
 

supafly

Eff you, Shula
PatsFans.com Supporter
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
I don't know if it's as much against Kiper personally, as he probably seems to do around the same percentage wise as most of the other draft 'experts.'

I think it's more about Belichick and his staff doing things their way, kind of along the vein that Michael Holley's "War Room" speaks of. There are many times where Belichick disagrees with most of the other analysts, and he tends to rate players differently.

There's no way that Kiper can have any clue about some of the more un recognizable players in the draft, those who are less known. There's also no way that Kiper knows anything about how our specific needs are looked at, and how the player may project into our scheme here.

We've seen plenty of WTF picks before, so I'm not going to worry too much about it; though I will admit that my humble fandom point of view wanted someone else.

Kiper has his board which is based on his abstraction of talent. The Patriots have their board based on talent. However the analysis for the Patriots includes how a player fits THEIR SCHEME and THEIR LOCKER ROOM. Kiper little book doesn't and really can't factor that in for 32 teams.

When Kiper criticizes a team when the diverge from his board it is silly since he doesn't know a teams scheme and loker room needs as well as teams with competent management and team philosophy.


BTW making the Patriots roster is a lot tougher than making a lot of other rosters.

My thoughts pretty much exactly.

It seems as though many people continue to overlook this aspect of the drafting process.
 

strngplyr

In the Starting Line-Up
Even if he turns out to be Ronnie Lott, it is still an awful pick. Even if the Pats heard. other teams think he was moving up their draft boards it was still an awfull pick. For this player to go anywhere near the 2nd means the pats did not optimize their value.

Than when you combine that with a wierd trade of a 2 for a low 3 and a low 5, this was a horrible night all around for the Pats. hell they probably could have drafted ilson with the low 5th they got a for a 2. 2nd rd draft picks are valuable commodities, BB traded it away like it had herpes. Love day 1, hate day 2.

So if he turns into Ronnie Lott you're going to be pissed that we spent a mid round 2nd on him instead of picking up 2 or 3 more draft picks that potentially pan out to be nothing?
 

manxman2601

Hall of Fame Poster
NE Patriots Draft made the point that the Wilson pick is evidence that the Patriots board is the smallest in the NFL. They are clearly much more discriminatory in removing people from their board altogether - that's why supposed reaches get quicker to the Pats than they do other teams.
 

SVN

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club
Gotta give it time. How many people were excited when BB moved up and picked Chad Jackson. Anyone else thought he would be as big a bust ?
 
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