DL & EDGE Players: Run stuffers, designated pass rushers, hybrids, etc

2020 Patriots Season:
Upcoming Opponent:
Next Up: at Chiefs
Pick Results: NE: 31.9% at KC: 68.1%
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Oct 4th

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maineman209

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
I'm still upset that Bill allowed Sheard - the man he probably should've drafted instead of Glas-IR Dowling anyway - to sign with Indy.
Sheard was one of my binkies that draft, so blame that on me. BB has a long history of refusing to draft my binkies, IOW, if Dowling had been my binky, we probably would have ended up with Sheard.
 

captain stone

Pro Bowl Player
That's a lot of weight to ask him to add. I would be satisfied with him at his current weight as a Priority UDFA and 3rd-string Strong-side DE.
 

reamer

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
That's a lot of weight to ask him to add. I would be satisfied with him at his current weight as a Priority UDFA and 3rd-string Strong-side DE.
I've seen him between 150 and 230 in most rankings / mock drafts. How would you feel about using 183 or 200 on him? Seems like solid value to me. I don't think he goes undrafted with his career production and testing numbers.
 

captain stone

Pro Bowl Player
I've seen him between 150 and 230 in most rankings / mock drafts. How would you feel about using 183 or 200 on him? Seems like solid value to me. I don't think he goes undrafted with his career production and testing numbers.
It depends if our other needs - Power Back, TE, Left-side OLman, Coverage LB, 3-tech DT - have been met, and I certainly hope that a top 100-caliber DE has already been drafted by the end of day 2. If they have, then I would have no problem drafting Davis with our 7th-rounder…depending, of course, on who else is available there.
 

captain stone

Pro Bowl Player
It depends if our other needs - Power Back, TE, Left-side OLman, Coverage LB, 3-tech DT - have been met, and I certainly hope that a top 100-caliber DE has already been drafted by the end of day 2. If they have, then I would have no problem drafting Davis with our 7th-rounder…depending, of course, on who else is available there.
I might have to re-adjust my opinion of Davis. I found this top 100 list on SportingNews.com via Optimum Scouting, and guess who is #100:
NFL Draft Big Board: Top 100 prospects in 2017 draft class

2 notes:
It's a shame that the Sporting News no longer publishes a pre-draft issue (or any issue, I'm afraid). Instead of a vertical board, it would use a horizontal board, stacked vertically by round. Russ Lande of GM Jr was its primary scout.

Optimum Scouting charges $10 for its digital publication. No hard-copy edition, unfortunately. Has anybody purchased this brand before, and if so, what did you think of it?
 

reamer

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
I might have to re-adjust my opinion of Davis. I found this top 100 list on SportingNews.com via Optimum Scouting, and guess who is #100:
NFL Draft Big Board: Top 100 prospects in 2017 draft class

2 notes:
It's a shame that the Sporting News no longer publishes a pre-draft issue (or any issue, I'm afraid). Instead of a vertical board, it would use a horizontal board, stacked vertically by round. Russ Lande of GM Jr was its primary scout.

Optimum Scouting charges $10 for its digital publication. No hard-copy edition, unfortunately. Has anybody purchased this brand before, and if so, what did you think of it?
I have a feeling that he goes earlier than expected. He has size, production, power, etc.

I've strongly considered getting the publication. From what I've heard, it's exceptionally thorough. There are a couple publications out there right now that look worth the investment:

Amazon.com: Online Shopping for Electronics, Apparel, Computers, Books, DVDs & more Draft-2017-Preview-Nolan-Nawrocki/dp/0879465859 (EDIT: I had to break the link, or else it would try to embed the Amazon media, but it's not working so a blank space appeared.)


2017 NFL Draft Guide

Potentially: 2017 NFL Draft Pass Guide | Pro Football Focus
 

maineman209

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
I haven't but I respect Eric Galko who, I believe, is behind it.
AFAIK, Galko is still the primary contributor to Optimum Scouting. For awhile there, a couple three years back, he had an extensive regular daily blog with his observations from Shrine Game and Senior Bowl practices. Not just "Wow!", tweet-sized blurbs, but actually detailed useful insights.
 

reamer

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Carroll Phillips


33" arms
9 3/4" hands
Height: 6032
Weight: 245
40 Yrd Dash: 4.64
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 23
Vertical Jump: 30
Broad Jump: 10'03"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.3
3-Cone Drill: 7.06


Excellent athlete who plays to his testing numbers when unblocked. Other than the outlier of the vertical jump, he displayed speed, quickness, explosion, and strength at the Combine, and those numbers show up on tape. Disruptive. High motor player. Undersized, but fights through blocks with good physicality, albeit underdeveloped technique. At least one sack in eight out of twelve games this season; didn’t just feast on lesser competition. Produced 58 tackles, 20.0 TFLs, 9.0 sacks in his only season as a starter. Known as the “Wild Man” since his early days. Mentality of a “playmaker” can cut both ways, but at his best, Phillips disrupts the opposing team’s plans and changes their protection schemes. Vague rumors of off field issues, but little information. In interviews he comes across as focused, respectful, and personable. Coaches like him, and he works hard. Football guy.

Fit with the Patriots: In year one, Phillips would be more of a Van Noy backup, or in competition with McClellin. While he lacks the bulk of the more traditional DE/OLB types the Patriots have employed, he does show the physicality, aggressiveness, and willingness to take on blockers and play through contact. Once in a pro strength and conditioning program for a year or two, he could conceivably play at 250 - 255 without loss of speed or agility, and could eventually take Ninkovich’s spot, but only if he can improve his technique against the run.


+ Lightening quick into the backfield
+ Excellent TFL production; gets into the backfield with consistency
+ Experience standing up as a blitzer and in coverage (more at JUCO level than Illinois)
+ Versatile; can play multiple alignments and sides of formation
+ When his technique is right, can lock out arms and control chestplate of blockers
+ Tenacious in pursuit
+ Finds ways back into the play
+ Despite only 1 official forced fumble, looks to punish ball carriers with every hit
+ Takes good angles to the ball carrier
+ Explosive closing speed and reliable tackler to finish plays
+ Plays hard regardless of score
+ Reportedly took well to coaching at Senior Bowl and improved each day in an unfamiliar scheme with new requirements



- Not required to set the edge in college -- Lovie Smith believes in attacking DEs
- Scheme called for upfield rushing; lacks experience against run/screen plays
- Only a single year of production; one year wonder?
- Seek and destroy missile; sometimes it works, sometimes it backfires (bites on misdirection)
- Gets stuck to blocks; not likely a full-time DE at the next level
- Quick spin move, but mistimed at the top of the rush, and therefore ineffective
- Too often pushed past the action on running downs; still tries to get upfield
- Somewhat difficult to project in a read-and-react scheme
- Will need to move to LB in the NFL, but only produced well as a hand-in-the-dirt DE



Extends arms into tackle to prevent getting washed out on the backside of the play, then disengages and chases down the ball carrier. Vicious hitter.



At his best in pursuit, but here are a couple of plays where he fights through a block or bends the edge to make his way to the quarterback.



Works to get back into the play. Could shed more quickly, but shows the strength to push away the blocker and then the closing speed to reach the quarterback.



Easiest run block of this OT’s life, simply pushing Phillips upfield and using his natural aggressiveness against him to take him out of the play.



Short highlight reel from the school:

 
Last edited:

long distance

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Thanks for your great effort.

I was looking forward to finally see some full game film of him. Quite a disappointment against average competition (Braden).

Unfortunately not much to see from NFL standpoint where he is projected to be moved off line.

The film is a good example how overrated sacks are. No pressure the whole game and then one meaningless sack for the highlight reel..
 

reamer

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Thanks for your great effort.

I was looking forward to finally see some full game film of him. Quite a disappointment against average competition (Braden).

Unfortunately not much to see from NFL standpoint where he is projected to be moved off line.

The film is a good example how overrated sacks are. No pressure the whole game and then one meaningless sack for the highlight reel..
Yes, he really needs to improve his handwork. I think he's got terrific movement abilities and he plays hard, but he just gets stuck to blocks too easily. Move him off the line, and he can use his speed to chase down plays. I don't see him as a great fit here for what we like to do, but I could see him having a very nice NFL career in the right scheme.
 

reamer

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
I have been slacking on the draft board. I do think this thread will be the most informative one we have come draft day(s). I would not be surprised if we take 2 pass rushers back to back.

My personal picks would be Lawson and Hendrickson and I think it is possible to get both with the picks we have if things fall right.
I've slacked off, too. I will try to ramp up this weekend. I'm working on a Hendrickson breakdown right now that's largely complete, other than the gifs. If you like Lawson, then maybe I'll try to get to him next.
Well, I'm a little behind schedule, but I just finished my main film review for Lawson (every 2016 game; I'm going to supplement with some 2015 games before the final writeup). There's a ton to like about his mentality and playstyle. I have a few concerns, but I'll get to those in the full breakdown. Just a head's up that I should be able to finish it this weekend. :)
 

reamer

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

long distance

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Carroll Phillips


33" arms
9 3/4" hands
Height: 6032
Weight: 245
40 Yrd Dash: 4.64
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 23
Vertical Jump: 30
Broad Jump: 10'03"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.3
3-Cone Drill: 7.06


Excellent athlete who plays to his testing numbers when unblocked. Other than the outlier of the vertical jump, he displayed speed, quickness, explosion, and strength at the Combine, and those numbers show up on tape. Disruptive. High motor player. Undersized, but fights through blocks with good physicality, albeit underdeveloped technique. At least one sack in eight out of twelve games this season; didn’t just feast on lesser competition. Produced 58 tackles, 20.0 TFLs, 9.0 sacks in his only season as a starter. Known as the “Wild Man” since his early days. Mentality of a “playmaker” can cut both ways, but at his best, Phillips disrupts the opposing team’s plans and changes their protection schemes. Vague rumors of off field issues, but little information. In interviews he comes across as focused, respectful, and personable. Coaches like him, and he works hard. Football guy.

Fit with the Patriots: In year one, Phillips would be more of a Van Noy backup, or in competition with McClellin. While he lacks the bulk of the more traditional DE/OLB types the Patriots have employed, he does show the physicality, aggressiveness, and willingness to take on blockers and play through contact. Once in a pro strength and conditioning program for a year or two, he could conceivably play at 250 - 255 without loss of speed or agility, and could eventually take Ninkovich’s spot, but only if he can improve his technique against the run.


+ Lightening quick into the backfield
+ Excellent TFL production; gets into the backfield with consistency
+ Experience standing up as a blitzer and in coverage (more at JUCO level than Illinois)
+ Versatile; can play multiple alignments and sides of formation
+ When his technique is right, can lock out arms and control chestplate of blockers
+ Tenacious in pursuit
+ Finds ways back into the play
+ Despite only 1 official forced fumble, looks to punish ball carriers with every hit
+ Takes good angles to the ball carrier
+ Explosive closing speed and reliable tackler to finish plays
+ Plays hard regardless of score
+ Reportedly took well to coaching at Senior Bowl and improved each day in an unfamiliar scheme with new requirements



- Not required to set the edge in college -- Lovie Smith believes in attacking DEs
- Scheme called for upfield rushing; lacks experience against run/screen plays
- Only a single year of production; one year wonder?
- Seek and destroy missile; sometimes it works, sometimes it backfires (bites on misdirection)
- Gets stuck to blocks; not likely a full-time DE at the next level
- Quick spin move, but mistimed at the top of the rush, and therefore ineffective
- Too often pushed past the action on running downs; still tries to get upfield
- Somewhat difficult to project in a read-and-react scheme
- Will need to move to LB in the NFL, but only produced well as a hand-in-the-dirt DE



Extends arms into tackle to prevent getting washed out on the backside of the play, then disengages and chases down the ball carrier. Vicious hitter.



At his best in pursuit, but here are a couple of plays where he fights through a block or bends the edge to make his way to the quarterback.



Works to get back into the play. Could shed more quickly, but shows the strength to push away the blocker and then the closing speed to reach the quarterback.



Easiest run block of this OT’s life, simply pushing Phillips upfield and using his natural aggressiveness against him to take him out of the play.



Short highlight reel from the school:


I was “scouting“ RB Ogunbowale a bit and came across this interesting film that shows some nice moves of Carroll Phillips. The tape is from 2015 and Phillips is not on field for big part of the game - probably highlighting further his liability against run:

Dare Ogunbowale (Wisconsin RB) vs Illinois 2015

Here a great game from Ogunbowale though..

#23 RB Dare Ogunbowale (Wisconsin) vs Nebraska 2016

Can run, block, receive, make big plays .. not bad for projected UDFA.

And remember - there's no RB signed for 2018 on Pats roster so don't only look at power backs..
 

maineman209

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
I was “scouting“ RB Ogunbowale a bit and came across this interesting film that shows some nice moves of Carroll Phillips. The tape is from 2015 and Phillips is not on field for big part of the game - probably highlighting further his liability against run:

Dare Ogunbowale (Wisconsin RB) vs Illinois 2015

Here a great game from Ogunbowale though..

#23 RB Dare Ogunbowale (Wisconsin) vs Nebraska 2016

Can run, block, receive, make big plays .. not bad for projected UDFA.

And remember - there's no RB signed for 2018 on Pats roster so don't only look at power backs..
I've kinda had my eye on Ogbunwale as a UDFA for the Pats for a couple months, actually. Really only productive his last two seasons ...

Rushing: 185/1325, 7.2YPA, 12 TDs
Receiving: 60/507, 8.5 YPC, 2 TDs

OTOH, 390 career touches/ZERO fumbles

5106/213 ... 35" vertical ... 120" broad jump ... 4.34 shuttle ... 6.99 3-cone
 
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