Patriots Local News:

SOURCE:CBS Boston


SOURCE:Yahoo! Sports


SOURCE:NESN


SOURCE:Boston.com


SOURCE:NBC Sports Boston


SOURCE:NBC Sports Boston


SOURCE:NBC Sports Boston


SOURCE:WEEI


SOURCE:NESN


SOURCE:Yahoo! Sports


SOURCE:Providence Journal


SOURCE:Boston.com


SOURCE:Boston.com


SOURCE:NESN


SOURCE:ProFootballTalk.com


SOURCE:Yahoo! Sports


SOURCE:Boston.com


SOURCE:NESN


SOURCE:Boston Herald


SOURCE:ProFootballTalk.com


SOURCE:NFL.com


SOURCE:Boston.com


SOURCE:NESN


SOURCE:NESN


SOURCE:Yahoo! Sports

Patsfans.com

Upcoming Opponent:
Next Up: Chiefs
Sun
Dec 8th
Right Now At PatsFans.com:
Tough Loss
Sunday night's loss in Houston was tough, leaving the Patriots with questions heading into this week's showdown against the Chiefs

Current Patriots Twitter Feed:

DL & EDGE Players: Run stuffers, designated pass rushers, hybrids, etc

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by reamer, Jan 11, 2017.

  1. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Hall of Fame Poster

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Messages:
    29,400
    Likes Received:
    7,702
    Ratings:
    +26,722
    Do you have a spoiler alert on Hendrickson? I liked him for an attacking 4-3 team, didn't think he's a great fit for us.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. reamer

    reamer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Messages:
    7,512
    Likes Received:
    5,086
    Ratings:
    +15,754
    That's pretty much the essence of what I was going to write. Now that you've saved me the trouble, I'm going to go take a nap. :D
     
    • Funny Funny x 4
  3. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Hall of Fame Poster

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Messages:
    29,400
    Likes Received:
    7,702
    Ratings:
    +26,722
    Sorry.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  4. reamer

    reamer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Messages:
    7,512
    Likes Received:
    5,086
    Ratings:
    +15,754
    Trey Hendrickson

    Led the nation in blocked kicks/punts. Fast, fiery player with legitimately explosive traits to his game. 24 sacks and 6 forced fumbles over the last two years. Shorter arms (32” ) will likely knock him down some draft boards, but he still has longer arms than Melvin Ingram and Markus Golden, and is right in the same range as Vic Beasley and Yannick Ngakoue, so technique and talent can certainly win out over an inch of arm length. Overall, he’s a bit of a finesse rusher who will do best in an upfield scheme. Depending on where he goes, he will probably average 6 - 8 sacks a year, and possibly earn a pro bowl nod or two at some point in his career, but I don’t think he’s a foundational defensive player.

    I have him rated as a late 2nd, early 3rd round player, but I’m not certain he’s a great fit for the Patriots defense, where lane integrity and run defense are important elements on the edge. He has the athleticism to thrive in space, however, and to create havoc if turned loose on 3rd and long. If we still had a 1st and 2nd round pick, then I’d be much more inclined to spend 72 on him as a situational pass rusher while he develops a more well-rounded skillset. He could very well have good value and become a full-time starter in a couple of years. He’s an intriguing player with considerable upside, but he’s probably better in an attacking scheme.


    6' 4"
    266 lbs
    32"
    9⅞"
    4.65
    33½"
    122"
    7.03s
    4.2s
    11.43s



    Positives:

    + Ideal height/weight for position
    + High intensity player with competitive edge
    + Tomahawks the ball whenever possible; looks for turnovers
    + Elite testing numbers: above the 80th percentile for 40, broad jump, 3-cone, short shuttle, and 60 yard shuttle (99th percentile in the 60 yard shuttle)
    + Exceptional 10 yard split (1.59)
    + Relentless in pursuit
    + Quick inside move with good arm over technique
    + Can play standing up as an ILB or OLB
    + Experience as a QB spy
    + Play speed matches timed speed
    + Excellent in pursuit with speed + motor
    + Can split double teams if they are not directly blocking him
    + Flashes active hands (although they sometimes lack power)
    + For what it's worth, PFF rates his pressure ratio very highly


    Negatives:

    - Short arms for position
    - Effort, but not production, in the run game
    - Hesitant and gets washed out against the run
    - Incapable of handling sustained double teams
    - Overruns plays in haste to make tackles
    - Can be caught guessing against the run and vacate gap responsibility
    - Not much of a bull rush
    - Lacks awareness against screens and PA-pass; always looking to get upfield
    - Inconsistent timing the snap, which can negate his natural burst
    - Doesn’t always convert speed to power very effectively
    - Too often runs a long loop past the quarterback and takes himself out of the rush



    One of four special teams blocks this year:

    M. Badgley 24 yd FG BLOCKED,blocked by Trey Hendrickson - ESPN Video


    Highlight reel:





    POST UNDER CONSTRUCTION. GIFS STILL TO COME.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  5. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Hall of Fame Poster

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Messages:
    29,400
    Likes Received:
    7,702
    Ratings:
    +26,722
    These were my biggest concerns with him. Also saw him get handled by TEs.

    Also running past the QB, which you mention, which is a big n0-no for BB.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Hall of Fame Poster

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Messages:
    29,400
    Likes Received:
    7,702
    Ratings:
    +26,722
    One thing to look for with potential draft picks of pass-rushers is the 10 yard split.

    Chandler Jones - 1.69
    Geneo Grissom - 1.65 combine, 1.62 pro day
    Trey Flowers - 1.73 combine, 1.63 pro day

    Nick Caserio said that Chandler Jones' was lower than the ideal.

    Patriots' Nick Caserio on analytics and Akeem Ayers

    I think if you're looking for a prototype as a Pats pass rusher, you're looking at:

    6'4-6'5.
    Approx 265lbs - Jones, Bequette, Flowers and Grissom were between 262lbs and 275lb.
    10 yard split/3-cone - interestingly of the four recent pass rush picks, the two with better 3-cones (Bequette and Chandler Jones) had slower 10 yard splits. The two with slower 3-cones (Grissom/Flowers) had better 10 yard splits*
    Arm length? Jones and Flowers had long arms, Bequette and Grissom did not. Of course, two of those have been successful and two have not.

    *

    Ten yd/3-cone

    Chandler Jones - 1.69/7.07
    Jake Bequette - 1.71/6.90
    Trey Flowers - 1.63/7.26
    Geneo Grissom - 1.62/7.24

    Small sample size but I wonder if the Pats consider the ability to bend (3-cone) a way to make up for lesser explosion (10 yard split). Take Tarrell Basham as an example. His 3-cone wasn't great at 7.27 but he did have a 1.61 10 yard split. On the other hand, Daeshon Hall and Deatrich Wise had good 3-cones (7.03/7.07 respectively) but more sluggish 10 yard splits (1.67/1.70 respectively).
     
    • Useful Useful x 3
    • Like Like x 2
  7. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Hall of Fame Poster

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Messages:
    29,400
    Likes Received:
    7,702
    Ratings:
    +26,722
    Using the above profiles the most likely fits are the usual suspects: Taco Charlton, Daeshon Hall, Deatrich Wise, Tarrell Basham. Two names I wouldn't discount though are Keionta Davis and Avery Moss. Davis was 271lb with 34" arms. He ran well at his pro day at 4.71 and had a 37" vert but I don't have his 10 yard split or 3-cone. Avery Moss is 264lbs with 34.5" arms. He had a 1.63 10 yard split and a 7.25 3-cone.
     
    • Useful Useful x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Hall of Fame Poster

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Messages:
    29,400
    Likes Received:
    7,702
    Ratings:
    +26,722
    one other thing I've noted is the vertical jump:

    Jake Bequette - 34"
    Chandler Jones - 35"
    Geneo Grissom - 37"
    Trey Flowers - 36.5"

    Only two prospects at the combine weighed in at more than 260lb and jumped higher than 34". Fadol Brown and Daeshon Hall although Keionta Davis jumped 37" at his pro day. Daeshon Hall nd maybe Keionta Davis ticking a lot of boxes measurables wise.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Useful Useful x 2
  9. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Hall of Fame Poster

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Messages:
    29,400
    Likes Received:
    7,702
    Ratings:
    +26,722
    Finally, re Hendrickson, Willis and Rivers and Wise

    Hendrickson matches Ht, WT, 10 yard and 3-cone but has short arms (32") and a 33.5" VJ
    Rivers is undersized at 248lbs and has shortish arms but fits everything else
    Willis has average arms and is slightly undersized at 255lbs but easily outperforms the other metrics.
    Deatrich Wise is still a possibility with a 33" vj but has the slowest 10 yard split (1.70).
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Useful Useful x 2
  10. captain stone

    captain stone Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2004
    Messages:
    17,497
    Likes Received:
    2,102
    Ratings:
    +8,745
    How much did Hendrickson lift?

    I know that the bench press is discounted, but for OLmen & DLmen, I don't discount it. And one of the reasons that Jake the Fake Bequette should've been no higher than a 5th-round value is that he never once lifted during the draft process.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. reamer

    reamer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Messages:
    7,512
    Likes Received:
    5,086
    Ratings:
    +15,754
    As far as I know, he did not lift at the Combine or at his pro day. Interesting.
     
    • Useful Useful x 2
  12. reamer

    reamer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Messages:
    7,512
    Likes Received:
    5,086
    Ratings:
    +15,754
    Loved the metrics discussion @manxman2601! Davis is someone I keep planning on getting to, but for one reason or another, I haven't had as much opportunity to review his games as I would like. I've only seen snippets, and I'll admit that I wasn't super impressed, but I did note that I needed to watch more. His pro day numbers were excellent, though (4.67, 37" vert, 30 reps on bench, etc). He also has the production to back it up: 132 tackles, 43 for a loss, 19 pass deflections, eight forced fumbles, four fumble recoveries, 31 sacks.

    I was more impressed by the offensive side of the ball in the games I watched, as Levin and Board show some serious athleticism. Levin might be the best pulling guard I saw all year, although he needs work in other areas, and Board's pro day numbers were top notch.

    Pro Day Recap

    Love all the discussion. Keep it up, team. :)
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. reamer

    reamer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Messages:
    7,512
    Likes Received:
    5,086
    Ratings:
    +15,754
    Small update: Davis needs technique work, but he physically whoops the guys across from him in every game I watch. That's not to say that it always translates into production or good football plays, but I think I vastly underrated his power and athleticism. His tape reminds me a lot of Sheard's back in college, actually: just a big, powerful dude who doesn't know how to use his hands yet, but still manages to dominate competition and make something out of it.


    Sheard vs Notre Dame:




    Davis vs Robinson (Alabama OT) :

     
    • Like Like x 3
  14. I.M. Fletcher

    I.M. Fletcher 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Messages:
    1,689
    Likes Received:
    729
    Ratings:
    +2,259
    Love it guys. It's a big reason I have been much more focused on the "elephant edge" guys than some of the more traditional rushers. We have a very specific type we look for in a long term end, and are seemingly very patient to wait for it.

    It isn't surprising that Myles Garrett tests out so remarkably in all the categories we look for. His ability really is transcendent in every system. Probably better he gets to go play in a system that will earn him a lot more money than here. Gregg Williams is going to make that guy a boatload of money in his career.

    Solomon Thomas body type definitely lends more to a 3tech, but outside of shortish arms, he has the rest in abundance. Again, he's also another talent that transcends system, which is one more reason he's going so high.

    I have figured for awhile that Wise would be the guy we would end up with, just given the clear measurement and skill set fit. At the same time, given the class, I am sure it would still seem like a disappointment. I don't know why I keep thinking about Bequette with him, but he measures out much better in length, which was one of his biggest issues.

    I have a few more thoughts that I will come back to this evening.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  15. mrscruff

    mrscruff PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,105
    Likes Received:
    241
    Ratings:
    +708
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  16. captain stone

    captain stone Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2004
    Messages:
    17,497
    Likes Received:
    2,102
    Ratings:
    +8,745
    I'm still upset that Bill allowed Sheard - the man he probably should've drafted instead of Glas-IR Dowling anyway - to sign with Indy.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. reamer

    reamer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Messages:
    7,512
    Likes Received:
    5,086
    Ratings:
    +15,754
    I would have liked to keep him around, too, but I think the writing was on the wall after the benching earlier this year.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  18. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan TB12, BB = G.O.A.T.s PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    35,440
    Likes Received:
    2,229
    Ratings:
    +8,613
    I don't think there was any real interest in bringing him back. I think they wanted a mutual separation but, to Sheard's credit, he played the season out after the 49er game issue. But it appears it was time to move on.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Useful Useful x 1
  19. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Hall of Fame Poster

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Messages:
    29,400
    Likes Received:
    7,702
    Ratings:
    +26,722
    Davis' strip fumble against Alabama would have pleased BB.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  20. maineman209

    maineman209 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    9,641
    Likes Received:
    4,203
    Ratings:
    +20,379
    It seemed to me that Bama ran very few plays to whichever side Davis was lined up on. When they did run to his side, the OT often had a little help. His one-on-one "losses" to the OT seemed mostly a matter of lack of technique.

    Often late off the snap, though that sometimes seemed deliberate. Not particularly quick or fast (compared to Bama), but generally good footwork and balance. I don't think I saw him on the ground except when a blocker actually tackled him (no flags).

    Set the edge pretty consistently. I don't think I saw him lose contain by diving inside more than once. Not quick enough to catch up to the play from behind very often, but showed good awareness (and strength) to strip the ball from the RB when he did.

    Consistently kept his eyes on the play whether he could get there or not.

    Add 15 pounds and tech him better technique ... maybe a 3-tech?
     
    • Like Like x 2

Share This Page

FORUM SEARCH: CLOSE
For searches w/multiple
players add commas
(Ex: "Tom Brady, Julian Edelman")