DL & EDGE Players: Run stuffers, designated pass rushers, hybrids, etc

[manxman2601]

It's funny how Watt had great production, an incredible Combine, and two brothers who play in the NFL (one at an absurdly high level), and yet everyone is hesitant to rank him higher. Something about him screams serviceable, not superstar. I'm just as guilty as the rest.

My issue is that I think he's limited as a 3-4 OLB only. I see the other two as having more flexibility, at least for the Patriots. Bowser can play 3-4 OLB, I think he can be an off the ball linebacker in the Collins vein and could be a passing down pass rusher. Willis is a 4-3 DE but I do think he can stand up and drop into coverage a la Ninkovich. But I don't see Watt with his hand in the ground. To be honest, I don't have much between all three but my grade ranks them based upon versatility and upside rather than anything else.

 

[manxman2601]

Useful chart from PFF to accompany an article on the pass rushers

Ranking the top 15 edge prospects of 2017 | PFF

Also found this an interesting stat.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Useful chart from PFF to accompany an article on the pass rushers

Ranking the top 15 edge prospects of 2017 | PFF

Also found this an interesting stat.

I wish I were considered highly successful at my job if I had a positive outcome on only 18.5% of my attempts.

Edit: Also, I don't know what the numbers mean in the PFF chart. How can % be greater than 100? What is the red and green representative of? Etc. Context would be helpful.

 

[manxman2601]

I wish I were considered highly successful at my job if I had a positive outcome on only 18.5% of my attempts.

Edit: Also, I don't know what the numbers mean in the PFF chart. How can % be greater than 100? What is the red and green representative of? Etc. Context would be helpful.

In terms of the colours, it usually means above or below the average with darker green the best. As for percentage numbers being above 100%, the numbers represent rankings rather than % so Dawson Hall ranked 108th in run/stop percentage.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

In terms of the colours, it usually means above or below the average with darker green the best. As for percentage numbers being above 100%, the numbers represent rankings rather than % so Dawson Hall ranked 108th in run/stop percentage.

Ah, excellent. Thank you. I was vastly over-thinking the meaning.

EDIT: I should comment that I have an extraordinarily hard time believing that there are over 100 edge players better against the run than Odenigbo. Tough to take that too seriously.

 

[manxman2601]

Ah, excellent. Thank you. I was vastly over-thinking the meaning.

EDIT: I should comment that I have an extraordinarily hard time believing that there are over 100 edge players better against the run than Odenigbo. Tough to take that too seriously.

It doesn't really mean that, it just means that 100+ have graded better at making impactful tackles and there are a number of factors that affect that. Is he setting the edge and driving runners inside to be tackled by others? Does he crash down on option plays? Does the scheme call on him to pass rush more often than not? Is he so good on run plays that teams avoid running in his direction? Just because he's ranked 108th does not mean he's 108th best against the run.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

If you don't mind going to enemy territory, this is a really detailed and informative breakdown of many of the edge guys, from an aggressive 34 perspective: BTSC Big Board: Edge Rushers in the upcoming draft

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Nice interview with a guy I really like in the 2nd or onward:

Exclusive Interview with Ohio EDGE rusher Tarell Basham | Draft Breakdown

 

[manxman2601]

Nice interview with a guy I really like in the 2nd or onward:

Exclusive Interview with Ohio EDGE rusher Tarell Basham | Draft Breakdown

Matt Waldman and Fran Duffy broke down his game.

 

[manxman2601]

 

[manxman2601]

PFF's highest graded pass rushers from the right (ie against the LT) in terms of pass rush productivity. The top two names are interesting.

Breaking down the top pass-rushers by side | PFF

 

[WaterfallJumper]

PFF's highest graded pass rushers from the right (ie against the LT) in terms of pass rush productivity. The top two names are interesting.

Breaking down the top pass-rushers by side | PFF

I see my boy Ifeadi Odenigbo is on there. Nice. Missing from the left side? Jordan Willis. Very curious.

Also, sorry for my lack of punctuality with updates. I'll try to remedy that later this week.

 

[manxman2601]

I see my boy Ifeadi Odenigbo is on there. Nice. Missing? Jordan Willis. Very curious.

Also, sorry for my lack of punctuality with updates. I'll try to remedy that later this week.

Willis works almost exclusively from the left hand side. This is for snaps on the right hand side of the defense.

 

[long distance]

Funny. Just re-watched Hendrickson yesterday again and thought not too bad going against LT all the time..

 

[maineman209]

It doesn't really mean that, it just means that 100+ have graded better at making impactful tackles and there are a number of factors that affect that. Is he setting the edge and driving runners inside to be tackled by others? Does he crash down on option plays? Does the scheme call on him to pass rush more often than not? Is he so good on run plays that teams avoid running in his direction? Just because he's ranked 108th does not mean he's 108th best against the run.

Agree.

Besides context, there's also the possiblity that the statistical difference between #108 and, say, #54 is negligible. NFL team-stat rankings are pretty much a joke for that very reason. There's often no meaningful statistical difference between a team ranked 22nd and a team ranked 12th.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Willis works almost exclusively from the left hand side. This is for snaps on the right hand side of the defense.

The PFF article has a second chart for the left side, rushing against RTs. I should have embedded it for my post, but I was lazy.

 

[manxman2601]

Can't get my head around Trey Hendrickson as a Pats prospect. Twitched up and very quick off the snap but takes himself past the QB too easily and can get manhandled by both OTs and TEs, particularly in the run game. I think he works for an aggressive 4-3 defence but think he works less well for a defense like our own which relies on contain rather than an aggressive pass rush.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Can't get my head around Trey Hendrickson as a Pats prospect. Twitched up and very quick off the snap but takes himself past the QB too easily and can get manhandled by both OTs and TEs, particularly in the run game. I think he works for an aggressive 4-3 defence but think he works less well for a defense like our own which relies on contain rather than an aggressive pass rush.

I'm a little warmer on his prospects here, because I think he has a skillset that usually goes higher than he's projected. He's really athletic and brings an intensity that I'd love to have on 3rd and long, but as you say, he's got a ways to go in terms of run defense. Maybe he'll be my breakdown target this weekend, if I can find some spare time. Good comments though.

 

[BobDigital]

I have been slacking on the draft board. I do think this thread will be the most informative one we have come draft day(s). I would not be surprised if we take 2 pass rushers back to back.

My personal picks would be Lawson and Hendrickson and I think it is possible to get both with the picks we have if things fall right.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

I have been slacking on the draft board. I do think this thread will be the most informative one we have come draft day(s). I would not be surprised if we take 2 pass rushers back to back.

My personal picks would be Lawson and Hendrickson and I think it is possible to get both with the picks we have if things fall right.

I've slacked off, too. I will try to ramp up this weekend. I'm working on a Hendrickson breakdown right now that's largely complete, other than the gifs. If you like Lawson, then maybe I'll try to get to him next.