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DL & EDGE Players: Run stuffers, designated pass rushers, hybrids, etc

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by reamer, Jan 11, 2017.

  1. reamer

    reamer Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Excellent class this year. I wanted to try to break them down a bit more in detail, particularly given the difference in skillset that the players exhibit. My assumption is that there are premium players the Patriots won't have a shot at drafting (Garrett, Allen, Barnett, Thomas, etc), but the depth of this class should provide us with numerous options on all three days of the draft.

    I may miscategorize players or pigeonhole them. I've also skipped a lot of prospects, because I've tried to focus on players that would do well in New England's scheme as I understand it (base 43 but with a lot of responsibilities and formations that still borrow from the 34; we also play a TON of nickel and dime packages and need players who can run stuff, pass rush, and drop). I'm looking at well rounded guys who are ideally starters or at least can play multiple downs (all around players), designated pass rushers (DPR), early down DEs who shift inside for 3rd down or pass situations (inside/outside), and coverage OLB types (hybrids).

    In addition, I'm mostly avoiding pure defensive tackle players, although quite a few players could certainly end up lining up in the interior. I'm not really looking for nose tackle discussions, but I won't chase you out of the thread if you want to go that route, either. Primarily I'm focusing on pass rushers, including a few 3 techs who could slide outside for running downs. Mostly I'm looking at edge rushers, but I assume that if a player wants to be a full time starter in the Patriots scheme, then he had better be able to play the run, too.

    I'm not giving out precise draft grades just yet. I'm loosely attaching rounds to groups of players to get a feel for who might be available when, and who might help the team. Don't get too hung up on where I put them, unless you want to sell us on one player over another -- I love when people are passionate about their guy!

    To kick things off, I'm just going to group them by perceived draft value -- this is a rough aggregate of where I've seen them ranked or mocked, as well as some of my own input. I'll come back through and do more thorough analysis in the coming days and weeks. Ideally, I'd like to break down one prospect per post in the future. I'll edit this post to include a link to the player's breakdown. :)


    Top Twenty:

    All around:
    Myles Garrett Texas A&M Jr 6-4 268
    Derek Barnett Tennessee Jr 6-3 265

    Inside/outside DL:
    Jonathan Allen Alabama Sr 6-3 291
    Evaluation: Solomon Thomas Stanford rSo 6-3 275



    1st round:

    All around:
    Evaluation: Taco Charlton Michigan Sr 6-5 272

    Inside/outside:
    Evaluation: DeMarcus Walker Florida State Sr 6-3 273
    Chris Wormley Michigan rSr 6-5 302


    DPR:
    Charles Harris Missouri rJr 6-3 255
    Takkarist McKinley UCLA Sr 6-2 258

    Hybrid:
    Evaluation: Haason Reddick Temple rSr 6-1 230


    2nd round:

    All around:
    Evaluation: Tarell Basham Ohio Sr 6-4 262
    Evaluation: Jordan Willis Kansas State Sr 6-5 258
    Evaluation: Carl Lawson Auburn rJr 6-2 261



    Interior rushers:
    Evaluation: Jaleel Johnson Iowa Sr 6-3 308
    Davon Godchaux LSU Jr 6-4 293
    Montravius Adams Auburn Sr 6-3 309

    DPR:
    Evaluation: Dawuane Smoot Illinois Sr 6-3 255

    Hybrid:
    Tyus Bowser
    Evaluation: Ryan Anderson Alabama 6-2 258


    3rd round:

    All around:
    Evaluation: Ifeadi Odenigbo Northwestern Sr 6'3 260
    Daeshon Hall Texas A&M Sr 6-5 270
    Derek Rivers Youngstown State Sr 6-4 250
    Evaluation: Trey Hendrickson Florida Atlantic Sr 6-4 270

    Inside/outside:
    Deatrich Wise Jr. Arkansas rSr 6-5 271
    Evaluation: Tanoh Kpassagnon Villanova Sr 6-6 285

    DPR:
    Tim Williams Alabama Sr 6-3 252
    Evaluation: Devonte Fields Louisville rSr 6-3 242

    Hybrid:
    Vince Biegel Wisconsin 6-3 246
    Evaluation: Carroll Phillips Illinois Sr 6-3 240


    4th round:

    All around:
    Keionta Davis Chattanooga rSr 6-3 270


    5th - 7th round:

    Tashawn Bowers
    Josh Carraway TCU rSr 6-3 250
    Garrett Sickels Penn State rJr 6-4 250
    Corey Vereen Tennessee Sr 6-2 250
    Darius English South Carolina rSr 6-5 245
    Hunter Dimick Utah rSr 6-3 272
     
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    Last edited: Apr 24, 2017
  2. meatface

    meatface Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I cant believe some parent named their kid Taco
     
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  3. BaconGrundleCandy

    BaconGrundleCandy Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Real name is Vidauntae
     
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  4. BaconGrundleCandy

    BaconGrundleCandy Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Joe Mathis, Avery Moss, Tyquan Lewis, Brantley, Haynes, Both JJ's
     
  5. BaconGrundleCandy

    BaconGrundleCandy Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    ---
    Tashawn Bower n Lewis Neal
     
  6. reamer

    reamer Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    He's actually my target at 32 right now if he falls that far. ;)

    As @BaconGrundleCandy pointed out, his real name is Vidauntae, but his grandmother started calling him Taco. He said he hated it as a kid, but now he's embraced the nickname. "Every day is taco Tuesday for me, even if it's not Tuesday." Funny kid. I'll post an in depth eval on him later today.
     
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  7. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Hall of Fame Poster

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    Excellent stuff and very useful.
     
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  8. reamer

    reamer Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I haven't even said anything useful yet. This is just me bloviating about what I'm going to say in the future, haha. But thanks. :)
     
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  9. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Hall of Fame Poster

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    Just to have the names and your views on grading is useful to me.
     
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  10. BaconGrundleCandy

    BaconGrundleCandy Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    JuMosq is a decent follow for stuff like this.


    Check out @JuMosq's Tweet:
     
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  11. reamer

    reamer Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Vidauntae "Taco" Charlton. Really came into his own this year. Bit of a late bloomer, but was moved around prior to finding a home at DE. Majority of his negatives are technique related, or could be shored up with a year in a professional weight training regimen. Extraordinary upside. Comp is Chandler Jones, but Charlton looks faster.

    6'6
    272
    22 years old

    Positives:

    + Excellent length
    + Super long arms
    + Explosive off the edge
    + Speed to chase down backs
    + Lines up all over the defensive front effectively
    + Solid against the run in single blocker scenarios
    + Still fairly young with a lot of growth potential
    + Experience as a DT
    + Generally active hands; fights to disengage
    + Hustle player; gives effort in pursuit and when initially blocked from play
    + Shows signs of a variety of pass rush techniques (still developing, however)
    + More disruptive than the stat sheets often reveal; consistently threatens pocket integrity


    Watch the slight hesitation to get the back to shade inside, and then the explosion to beat the tackle cleanly to the outside. Would have been his sack, but teammate got in the way:




    Crashes down the line with good power and helps stuff the run:




    Doesn't get the sack, but rocks the tackle (a projected 1st rounder) back on his heels and comes inside for the pressure:




    Don't leave him unblocked as a standup rusher, unless you want the QB to die:




    Negatives:

    - Can't handle the double team
    - Needs to add some strength / muscle mass
    - Can be stonewalled if he doesn't keep his hands active
    - Can be pushed past the play; doesn't always redirect quickly
    - Needs to protect better against cut blocks
    - Rarely asked to drop into coverage
    - Not a polished player yet; needs coaching


    Blown off the ball two plays in a row by a Tackle + TE combo:

     
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    Last edited: Jan 13, 2017
  12. reamer

    reamer Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Apparently I'm limited to 5 embedded pieces of media per post, so here's a bonus gif of Taco:

    Fights off the TE block and forces a huge loss against Cook, a top 2 RB in this draft:

     
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  13. I.M. Fletcher

    I.M. Fletcher 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Taco is my top target for us. With vea out, he is my clearest blend of need, measurements and value for us. You will see him in my next offseason mock.

    Great breakdown, as always.
     
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  14. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan TB12, BB = G.O.A.T.s PatsFans.com Supporter

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    FWIW :

     
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  15. reamer

    reamer Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Good to know. I've already rated him a lot lower than most places (to me he's a 3rd round kind of guy as a rotational pass rusher, not a full time player). I wonder if he falls farther than anticipated? Thanks for the info!
     
  16. reamer

    reamer Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Post reserved for Jordan Willis. I'm making my own gifs, so it's a little bit of slow going to put each post together.

    • 6'4"HEIGHT
    • 33 1/2"ARM LENGTH
    • 255LBS.WEIGHT
    • 9 7/8"
    • 4.53 SEC
    • 24 REPS
    • 39.0 INCH
    • 125.0 INCH
    • 6.85 SEC
    • 4.28 SEC
    Explosive athlete. Ideal frame. Premium testing numbers. His coach calls him the "the epitome" of Kansas State football. Unfortunately, he lacks great disengage tools when rushing, and needs to improve lower body flexibility and suddenness. Too often fails to bend the edge or keep his balance. Only 21, however, and has very high upside if he can improve his technique and agility (despite good 3-cone time, not a natural mover).



    Positives:

    + Most QB pressures in college football this year, per PFF (sorry; I know they're not reliable)
    + Ideal size at 6'4 258
    + Still young with good growth potential
    + Excellent effort regardless of score
    + Universally praised by his coaches
    + Solid production (12 sacks, 18 tackles for a loss, 4 forced fumbles)
    + Has naturally strong frame and flashes excellent powerful

    Negatives:

    - Not very pliable
    - Lacks great bend and change of direction skills
    - Rushes exclusively against RTs
    - Has some balance issues; too often ends up the ground

    Follow up part two: DL & EDGE Players: Run stuffers, designated pass rushers, hybrids, etc


    Good and bad in one play. Makes the right read, easily avoids the block, but loses his balance going for the tackle. Recurring theme for Willis. He ends up on the ground too much.




    Enough get off to threaten the tackle, but doesn't use his hands well enough to disengage. Little to no bend around the corner. Stays upright and takes too long of a trajectory to the QB. Still flushes the QB from the pocket, but doesn't get the stat of a sack or hit. Too linear of an athelete much of the time.

     
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    Last edited: Mar 23, 2017
  17. long distance

    long distance Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Jaleel Johnson?
    WalterFootball has him in the 2nd for NE .. Easley replacement.
    Before he had Charles Walker in the same cat.

    I focused a bit on Carlos Watkins the other night.
    Quite elusive and effective . but seems easily overpowered

    Also missing Carl Lawson
    Some have Bradley Chubb for late rounds..
    Marquise Haynes for your hybrid list?
     
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  18. reamer

    reamer Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Haason Reddick
    6'1
    235


    Positives

    + Von Miller speed off the snap
    + Coverage skills are off the charts
    + Has experience as a walk on cornerback
    + Does not need to run around an OT; can extend his arm and cut the corner ala Khalil Mack
    + Extremely disruptive
    + Elite speed to chase down backside plays; very difficult to run against laterally
    + Despite small frame, plays extremely physically at LoS
    + Hits harder than his size would indicate; plays aggressive and with a serious edge
    + Exceptional movement skills; very sudden change of direction
    + Plays under control and with good balance
    + Lines up on both sides of the field in both two point and three point stances; seems equally comfortable



    Negatives

    - Can be beaten in the run game; outmatched at times
    - Not likely to be a full time player at DE
    - Elite athleticism may artificially inflate his draft position; might not be great value as a part time player
    - When he stunts or loops inside, he is almost always swallowed up by the guard due to size mismatch



    Elite coverage skills for a DE. Probably would need to move to 43 SLB in the pros due to size, but his ability to drop, run with a back, and turn his head to find the ball looks like more a corner than a DL.




    Watch him peel off his rush and cover the RB out of the backfield. Incredibly smooth. Could eliminate the wheel routes that often plague the Patriots defense.




    Shows excellent discipline against misdirection plays. Stays square to the LoS in his assignment and tracks down the back for a big loss.




    Might have the best first step in the nation. Absolutely destroys blocking schemes when he rushes upfield.

     
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    Last edited: Jan 13, 2017
  19. reamer

    reamer Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Great names! I'd love to see your breakdowns on those guys. I haven't done too much work on Chubb or Haynes, for example.

    I love Jaleel Johnson. I went back and forth on whether or not to put him on the list. Originally I was only going to do edge guys, but I think we could use some interior pressure. Too bad Hicks got away and Easley wore out his welcome. I should have included Johnson. I'd put him in the 2nd round, in a similar range to Adams. I'll update my post.

    I already put Carl Lawson in as a designated pass rusher. Too many names to keep track of! :) He certainly has nice active hands and can get to the QB. From what I've heard, though, the medicals are really scary. Numerous teams are rumored to have removed him from their boards entirely, for what it's worth.

    Haynes doesn't impress me as anything more than a pass rusher. I don't know if he can drop into coverage, which is what I'd look for in a LB. It's probably not fair to leave him off the list, though. I'm not as high on him as some others. I need to watch more film, but when I compare him to someone like Haason Reddick, whom I'm extremely impressed with, he just doesn't seem as fast, fluid, coordinated, or powerful of an athlete.

    EDIT: I forgot Haynes is going back for his senior season. I think that's the right call for him. I'll hold off profiling him until next year.
     
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  20. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Hall of Fame Poster

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    Very nice breakdown but I'm far from convinced by the prospect. A switch to the Jamie Collins role seems his best fit but I'm not sure he stands up well enough in the run game to be an effective LB here.
     
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