Deion Branch - will he make the roster next season?

[Mystery Pats Fan]

Looks like Stallworth won't dress on game days.....seems like it's for depth ,but IMO it's a WTF signing if this is true.

Donte' Stallworth - New England Patriots - 2012 Player Profile - Rotoworld.com

As Mister Spock would say, "totally illogical."

Not that I am an expert - that scenario as written makes absolutely no sense. I cant see a team and/or a player ever agreeing to that kind of a contract.

 

[mgteich]

1) Of course, Stallworth will be given a chance to compete for reps and his place in the depth chart in the off-season, including the pre-season.

2) HOWEVER, I don't see why you object to this roles for one of our receivers. On of our receivers will indeed be inactive each game. It is NOT unreasonable to believe that the "#4" receiver will usually be inactive if everyone is healthy.

We only need 3 active wide-outs plus the two special teamers (returner and special teams ace).

3) Even if SEVEN players were listed as wide receivers on the 53, the "#4" receiver would still likely be inactive. He is insrance against injuries. I believe that we did carry 7 a couple of years ago, including 3 special teamers.

4) BOTTOM LINE
Stallworth has has made it clear that he wants to be on the 53-man Patriot roster this year. He certainly understands that one of the receivers will likely be inactive each week, and that player could be the same almost every week.

As Mister Spock would say, "totally illogical."

Not that I am an expert - that scenario as written makes absolutely no sense. I cant see a team and/or a player ever agreeing to that kind of a contract.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Rotoworld's spin came from comments in Greg Bedard's Sunday Notes column where he talked to league personnel people with knowledge of the players we signed at the owners meetings for their thoughts on how players may fit.

Given the split contract Stallworth agreed to it's pretty clear that the team has concerns about his health and effectiveness heading into a season. And he wanted another shot here under any circumstances.

SCOUTING REPORT

Inside look at new Patriots

Continuing our look at the crop of Patriots free agents through the eyes of league personnel executives who have studied them closely:

? Former Redskins receiver Donté Stallworth (6-0, 197): “Good straight speed. Tight route runner. Struggles versus press. Mostly a vertical guy. Hands are hard. Gets hurt a lot. Has to spend a lot of time working on his hamstrings because he gets so many pulls. At this point, he’s no better than a fourth receiver but offers no special teams value. Likely won’t dress.’’

Jets coach Rex Ryan believes Tim Tebow will excel in Wildcat - The Boston Globe

 

[supafly]

I think that you are being overly negative about Stallworth. I think that he makes the team and does well. With him and Lloyd keeping defenses busy deep then the others, including Hernandez and the Gronkabeast will have field days.

I was thinking that Ocho would be kept mainly because of the cash investment but with the additions of Gonzalez and Lloyd and Stallworth I have changed my mind. Ocho IMO is gone.

My six are
Lloyd
Welker
Gonzalez
Branch
Edelman
Stallworth

And lets not forget Hernandez who is more of a H back/WR than a tight end.

You may be right. I certainly don't mean to be negative about Stallworth's prospects here, b/c after all we've seen him contribute on some level before. My thinking is that the C.Johnson situation will be a very important variable in determining who stays and goes, and that the talent is still there for #85; whether or not he can use it or not remains to be seen.

I'm not sure if you saw the video with A.Brown, Wallace, and Johnson or not, but there's a lot of good stuff in there that shows us Chad still has it. Since it's obviously a matter of being able to pick up and contribute to the offense, it's a hard variable to predict.

For what it's worth, I've always been a big OSU fan so I'm aware of Gonzalez' skillset. That said, he's the one who I think may be the biggest unknown right now, and I'm also wondering if his skillset can fit in here with Welker and Hernandez. I'm thinking that the 2 of them + Edelman (although we hope he won't get too many reps on offense), show a similar skillset.

We need an addition of downfield threats, outside the #'s guys, at least in my opinion. Those would include Stallworth and Johnson, since we all know Lloyd obviously makes the team. I believe Welker, Llyod, and maybe even Branch are locks--since he knows the system and has a good rapport/chemistry with Brady. Edelman has obvious value, and is cheap and versatile, not to mention that I really get the feeling the Belichick appreciates guys like him in general.

That would then leave Chad Johnson and Donte Stallworth as the last two to battle it out, unless Gonzo goes after camp (he may even be some type of insurance for the Welker situation), whereas the possibility would lie that both Johnson and Stallworth would make the team.

I don't know if we're going to agree on Gonzo's situation, but we can agree on the fact that the WR core is deeper and has more compeition than they've had in a long time--and that's a good thing.

Stallworth may very well make the team, and on top of that he may end up contributing more than some (including myself) originally thought; especially considering the injury issue that usually sorts some of these problems out unfortunately.

 

[patfanken]

51 catches is pretty decent when you're the 4th receiving option on the team. We went 14-2 and 13-3 the last 2 years with Branch as the WR2, so it's only natural to assume that if someone went down he could step in and get the job done for a few weeks or a month.

Supe, you have to get off that 51 catches rant. It has no relevance to THIS season. Even if he makes the team, he's not coming anywhere near that number again. You have to look inside those numbers. Why did his production virtually fall off the map in the 2nd half of the season when he SHOULD have been the beneficiary of the fact defenses were concentrating on Welker/Gronk/Hernandez. He didn't take advantage of it because he was being taken out of the game consistently with tight physical coverage by one man.

He's obviously lost a step, and has a hard time beating physical man coverage..those are his 2 biggest minuses.

These are 2 huge minuses and add the fact he doesn't play ST's

It will be interesting to see what formation the Pat use as their main focus. Will it be 3 WRs 2 TEs, or will we only have just 2 WRs and use the FB more. If its the former then you will have Lloyd wide taking the Branch role, but having skills that will make him more of a focus. You'd have Welker in the slot, being Welker. You'd have the 2 TE's being the 2 TE's. and you'd have the speed guy on the other side

Stallworth and Ocho have the potential to fill that speed role. Ocho and Branch have the potential to back up Lloyd. Branch could NEVER be the speed guy. He could NEVER back up Welker. He is limited to just one WR position

That's my point. Of all the WRs we have on the roster, the guy who can do the LEAST is Branch. No ST's. Only one WR position, and that's as a back up. Diminishing skills. Plus at his best, a skill set that doesn't match up well against the style of defenses the Pats are predominately seeing.

All those factors, will make him making the team an uphill battle. Great to have him signed because we all know that sh!t happens and its good to have him in case it does. But those who think he's a virtual lock based on 51 catches last season are not looking forward. This isn't about what Branch has done in the past. This is about what he offers in the future...and frankly, the way I see it....it isn't much.

 

[Deus Irae]

Supe, you have to get off that 51 catches rant. It has no relevance to THIS season. Even if he makes the team, he's not coming anywhere near that number again. You have to look inside those numbers. Why did his production virtually fall off the map in the 2nd half of the season when he SHOULD have been the beneficiary of the fact defenses were concentrating on Welker/Gronk/Hernandez. He didn't take advantage of it because he was being taken out of the game consistently with tight physical coverage by one man.

These are 2 huge minuses and add the fact he doesn't play ST's

It will be interesting to see what formation the Pat use as their main focus. Will it be 3 WRs 2 TEs, or will we only have just 2 WRs and use the FB more. If its the former then you will have Lloyd wide taking the Branch role, but having skills that will make him more of a focus. You'd have Welker in the slot, being Welker. You'd have the 2 TE's being the 2 TE's. and you'd have the speed guy on the other side

Stallworth and Ocho have the potential to fill that speed role. Ocho and Branch have the potential to back up Lloyd. Branch could NEVER be the speed guy. He could NEVER back up Welker. He is limited to just one WR position

That's my point. Of all the WRs we have on the roster, the guy who can do the LEAST is Branch. No ST's. Only one WR position, and that's as a back up. Diminishing skills. Plus at his best, a skill set that doesn't match up well against the style of defenses the Pats are predominately seeing.

All those factors, will make him making the team an uphill battle. Great to have him signed because we all know that sh!t happens and its good to have him in case it does. But those who think he's a virtual lock based on 51 catches last season are not looking forward. This isn't about what Branch has done in the past. This is about what he offers in the future...and frankly, the way I see it....it isn't much.

He got the contract he got because they expect him to make the team.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Just as Stallworth and Gonzalez got the split injury minimum or nearly contracts they got and Ocho got restructured down to nearly veteran mininmum. Contracts with little or no guaranteed money that merely afford them the opportunity to compete for a roster spot.

 

[THELAWFIRM226]

???

Elaborate, please.

What do you need me to elaborate on? I think it's a joke that some people actually think Branch will not make the roster. He is easily one of Brady's favorite targets, and he and Brady probably have the best chemistry between them out of any of the wideouts. Barring injury, Branch will be on the roster next year.

 

[patsfan13]

Supe, you have to get off that 51 catches rant. It has no relevance to THIS season. Even if he makes the team, he's not coming anywhere near that number again. You have to look inside those numbers. Why did his production virtually fall off the map in the 2nd half of the season when he SHOULD have been the beneficiary of the fact defenses were concentrating on Welker/Gronk/Hernandez. He didn't take advantage of it because he was being taken out of the game consistently with tight physical coverage by one man.

I think Reiss's piece on Branch's contract makes a good point.

This deal reflects how the Patriots still value Branch. To pay him $400,000 in bonuses (signing & workout) is an indication, from this view, that the team envisions him having a spot on the 2012 roster.

Looking closer at Branch deal - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston


This signing with 400k guarentee after the other signings says a lot.

 

[supafly]

What do you need me to elaborate on? I think it's a joke that some people actually think Branch will not make the roster. He is easily one of Brady's favorite targets, and he and Brady probably have the best chemistry between them out of any of the wideouts. Barring injury, Branch will be on the roster next year.

I agree with you, but your position could have gone either way with the comment that you posted.

 

[supafly]

Supe, you have to get off that 51 catches rant. It has no relevance to THIS season. Even if he makes the team, he's not coming anywhere near that number again. You have to look inside those numbers. Why did his production virtually fall off the map in the 2nd half of the season when he SHOULD have been the beneficiary of the fact defenses were concentrating on Welker/Gronk/Hernandez. He didn't take advantage of it because he was being taken out of the game consistently with tight physical coverage by one man.

These are 2 huge minuses and add the fact he doesn't play ST's

It will be interesting to see what formation the Pat use as their main focus. Will it be 3 WRs 2 TEs, or will we only have just 2 WRs and use the FB more. If its the former then you will have Lloyd wide taking the Branch role, but having skills that will make him more of a focus. You'd have Welker in the slot, being Welker. You'd have the 2 TE's being the 2 TE's. and you'd have the speed guy on the other side

Stallworth and Ocho have the potential to fill that speed role. Ocho and Branch have the potential to back up Lloyd. Branch could NEVER be the speed guy. He could NEVER back up Welker. He is limited to just one WR position

That's my point. Of all the WRs we have on the roster, the guy who can do the LEAST is Branch. No ST's. Only one WR position, and that's as a back up. Diminishing skills. Plus at his best, a skill set that doesn't match up well against the style of defenses the Pats are predominately seeing.

All those factors, will make him making the team an uphill battle. Great to have him signed because we all know that sh!t happens and its good to have him in case it does. But those who think he's a virtual lock based on 51 catches last season are not looking forward. This isn't about what Branch has done in the past. This is about what he offers in the future...and frankly, the way I see it....it isn't much.

Okay, I won't bring up his 51 catches anymore

You have a fair point, don't get me wrong. I tend to agree with most of your thoughts actually, but the underlined sentence is probably the most important factor here.

He's certainly a decent guy to have around due to being able to instantly fill the role.

You're certainly right that he won't see 51 catches anymore, but the only reason I bring it up is in defense that he can't produce. That's decent production for a guy who was 4th on the target list. I realize it doesn't matter anymore moving forward, but I think you will be pleased with the WR core who makes the team.

My guess is that it's not as clear cut as many think, and that they keep one more than many think--depending upon how you/they view Slater of course. It probably isn't likely, but that's my guess for the current moment.

 

[mgteich]

See below for my guess at roster spot allocation. What is yours?

QB 3
RB/FB 4 (my gut says that we keep 5 and one less OL)
WR 5
TE 3
OT 4
OG/C 5
ST 1 (Slater)

Offense 25

.

My guess is that it's not as clear cut as many think, and that they keep one more than many think--depending upon how you/they view Slater of course. It probably isn't likely, but that's my guess for the current moment.

 

[supafly]

See below for my guess at roster spot allocation. What is yours?

QB 3
RB/FB 4 (my gut says that we keep 5 and one less OL)
WR 5
TE 3
OT 4
OG/C 5
ST 1 (Slater)

Offense 25

I would think that you'd have it pretty much dead on mg, if not as close as one could possibly get.

I agree with your original # of RB's, as I feel that we only go with 4 this year.

The main variable, in my opinion--is exactly 'where' us fans/media may put Slater. I agree with your thoughts on having him as a ST-only position for this exercise, although one could lump him in with the WR's, thus making it 6 for that position.

As far as WR goes, anything can obviously happen. We've actually kept 7 before, although it's certainly a rarity. I would tend to think that the following are locks (in my humble opinion of course):

These are in no way depth chart analysis, as in WR1/WR2/WR3--simply a decent guesstimate at who is now a 'lock.'

1.Welker
2.Lloyd
3.Branch (contract tends to state they see him here)
4.Edelman

I believe that the front-runner would be C.Johnson (#5), although Stallworth could beat him out if he shows more and/or Chad shows less.

In my opinion, Gonzalez is the one looking in from the outside, as we already have Welker and Edelman for the skillset that Gonzo would currently bring.

 

[tasmlab]

Hypothetical; if 2011 Branch is playing with Ben Watson and Kyle Brady (our record setting 2007 team's TEs) instead of Gronk and Hernando, does his 700 yrds/ 5TDs go up or down?

Or, simpler, do our awesome TEs help his production or take away opportunities?

 

[Nunchucks]

As a number 2 WR, meaning on the field for pretty much every snap, he should be making more catches. People like to call him the 4th option in the offense, but that is really a mistake. He should be the number two receiving option, as he is the second receiver, the receiver who is supposed to be dangerous with the ball in his hand, a receiver who defenses have to fear...

He was none of those things. He caught 51 balls while on the field all the time and don't forget that he and Brady are always on the same page. That means that Branch was physically unable to do the job.

he is a decent backup, but he cannot physically play in the NFL.

 

[patfanken]

Okay, I won't bring up his 51 catches anymore

You have a fair point, don't get me wrong. I tend to agree with most of your thoughts actually, but the underlined sentence is probably the most important factor here.

He's certainly a decent guy to have around due to being able to instantly fill the role.

You're certainly right that he won't see 51 catches anymore, but the only reason I bring it up is in defense that he can't produce. That's decent production for a guy who was 4th on the target list. I realize it doesn't matter anymore moving forward, but I think you will be pleased with the WR core who makes the team.

I'm glad we can come to some kind of consensus, and I'm SURE I will be pleased with the WR corps that we end up with because in the end it will be deeper, more talented, and feature a more diverse set of skills than last season's group

My guess is that it's not as clear cut as many think, and that they keep one more than many think--depending upon how you/they view Slater of course. It probably isn't likely, but that's my guess for the current moment.

Disregarding Slater, I can't see how the Pats can keep more than 5 true WRs, especially when you are adding at least one FB to the roster mix. Makes it hard to think shy we would draft a WR this year. He would either have to be so skillful as to make an immediate impact and knock out one of the proven vets, or so developmental that he winds up on the PS or IR. Hard to see one of the former where the Pats draft, and don't see the point of the latter

 

[MoLewisrocks]

As a number 2 WR, meaning on the field for pretty much every snap, he should be making more catches. People like to call him the 4th option in the offense, but that is really a mistake. He should be the number two receiving option, as he is the second receiver, the receiver who is supposed to be dangerous with the ball in his hand, a receiver who defenses have to fear...

He was none of those things. He caught 51 balls while on the field all the time and don't forget that he and Brady are always on the same page. That means that Branch was physically unable to do the job.

he is a decent backup, but he cannot physically play in the NFL.

Only if you are totally lacking in perspective...as many posting here are.

Gronkowski's playing time spiked from 74.7% last season to 94.6% in 2011, highlighting how he took an impressive step in his second season. ... Welker went from 70.7% to 89.2%. ... TE Aaron Hernandez spiked from 48.0% to 77.1%, highlighting his growth in the offense, as well as the Patriots playing the majority of their snaps with two or more tight ends on the field. ... WR Chad Ochocinco, at 26.3% and producing 16 receptions, earned $6 million between signing bonus and base salary. Not good value for the team. ... At the other end of the spectrum, WR Deion Branch played 76% and had 59 receptions, while earning a $2.2 million base salary. Over the last two seasons, Branch played 1,544 snaps and totaled 112 receptions; he was well worth the fourth-round draft choice surrendered to the Seahawks. ... Green-Ellis' snaps were down from 41.8% to 34.4%, while RB Danny Woodhead went from 38.9% to 33.0%. ... WR Julian Edelman's snaps were also down -- from 17.2% to 13.3%. ... The Patriots used an offensive lineman as an eligible receiver/tight end on 192 snaps (14.3%).

Final '11 offensive snap counts - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

 

[Deus Irae]

As a number 2 WR, meaning on the field for pretty much every snap, he should be making more catches. People like to call him the 4th option in the offense, but that is really a mistake. He should be the number two receiving option, as he is the second receiver, the receiver who is supposed to be dangerous with the ball in his hand, a receiver who defenses have to fear...

He was none of those things. He caught 51 balls while on the field all the time and don't forget that he and Brady are always on the same page. That means that Branch was physically unable to do the job.

he is a decent backup, but he cannot physically play in the NFL.

You've got pretty much everything wrong here.

 

[Deus Irae]

... Disregarding Slater, I can't see how the Pats can keep more than 5 true WRs, especially when you are adding at least one FB to the roster mix. Makes it hard to think shy we would draft a WR this year. He would either have to be so skillful as to make an immediate impact and knock out one of the proven vets, or so developmental that he winds up on the PS or IR. Hard to see one of the former where the Pats draft, and don't see the point of the latter

I don't know how many WRs they'll carry, but the Patriots haven't added anything at RB as of now, since they're down one at HB.