Deion Branch - will he make the roster next season?

[WhiZa]

Anyone have the contract number for all the WRs on the roster? I think Branch will is the 3rd highest paid WR. To me that says that the Pats are planning on keeping him one more year.


Welker
Lloyd
Branch
Ocho/Stallworth/Gonzalez
Edelman
Slater (as ST)

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I think Deion will get the message about 3 weeks into camp. There will be a nice, Troy Brown like press conference, and he will be gone. I know a lot has been made of his 700 yd season, but its less impressive when you think over a third of it came in the first 2 games. O.ver the last half of the season Deion had only one game where he produced ANYTHING of note (Eagles)

Part of his problem is that teams no longer are willing to lay back in zone defenses to defend the Pats. That is were Deion excels and is when he is his most effective. Now that teams more and more are going to a tighter, more physical style, he has become LESS and less effective. And this isn't likely to improve with age.

Now you have to add this to the fact that he is at best now a depth player. With Lloyd here he is NOT going to get even half the snaps he took last season. He is now a fringe player. A fringe player who doesn't play special teams and doesn't have any position flexibility. He doesn't play the slot. He doesn't motion. He is ONLY a Z (outside receiver)

So there you have it. Age declining skills - no special teams - no position flexibility - and his skills no longer match the defenses the Pats are predominantly seeing. That is NOT a list that makes it likely he will make the final 53.

The disconnect with you seems to be you think the guys who retired in camp were resigned for that season. They weren't. Troy played his last down prior to the 2007 SB. He retired in 2008 after no one signed him. Rodney was a UFA when he retired. Tedy was still under contract when he retired. They just signed Branch for 2012, like they signed Faulk in 2011 and he didn't retire...

They aren't handing him $400K as a going away present.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Anyone have the contract number for all the WRs on the roster? I think Branch will is the 3rd highest paid WR. To me that says that the Pats are planning on keeping him one more year.


Welker $9.5M cash and cap (franchise tagged)
Lloyd 3 years/$12M/$3M signing bonus
Branch 1 year $925K/$250K signing bonus/$150K workout bonus + $250K in incentives
Ocho 2 years left $4M 2012 salary reduced to $1M and has $100K workout bonus
Stallworth 1 year $825K plus $25K signing bonus (counts as veteran minimum) (split contract if injured)
Gonzalez 1 year 701K plus $15K signing bonus (split contract if injured)
Edelman 1 year (last of his rookie deal) $615K
Underwood 1 year $615K if he is on the 53 (has PS eligibility left)
Davis 1 year $485K if he is on the 53 (has PS eligibility)
Slater (as ST) 3 years $5.4M ($2M signing bonus)

I believe that's it.

 

[Ring 6]

First, to frame things, and assuming Welker stays:

• If Edelman moves to defense, then Branch/Ocho/Stallworth/Gonzalez/Underwood/any new young guys compete for three slots.
• Ditto if Edelman totally fails to make the team.
• If he stays on offense, then it's two.

Assuming that Gonzalez' main value is as 2nd slot guy behind Welker:

• If Edelman leaves the team entirely, or really focuses on defense, Gonzalez is a favorite to stay.
• If Edelman stays on offense, Gonzalez is more of a longshot.

So I'd really say there most likely are 2 slots for:

• Chad
• Branch
• Stallworth
• Gonzalez as a longshot
• Underwood & new young guys

I think one goes to a "route-runner" and one goes to a "speed guy".

I think the "speed" spot is for Stallworth and youngsters to compete for.
I think the "route-runner" slot is for the older guys.

I think Branch has the advantage competing for the "route-runner" spot.

Obviously, any of those personnel allocations should shift if enough guys (or too few guys) are really good.

I don't think it's a big deal if the WRs (beyond Slater and perhaps returners) don't contribute much on STs, as I think most of the DBs will.

IMO, the position of "2nd slot guy" is a creation of patsfans.com

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Reiss says Branch will count $1.575M against the cap so his first $250K in incentives is LTBE (and I'd guess based on exceeding 90% of last seasons production). He also says the remaining incentives obviously in the NLTBE category could go to $3M...

Looking closer at Branch deal - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

 

[WhiZa]

I believe that's it.

Thanks man. Just based on the numbers it looks like Stallworth and Gonzalez are on prove it deals. Basically they the Patriots gave them a contract lower than OchoCinco meaning they value Chad more as far as past and future production. They will need to beat him out in camp and then Branch's spot would be next.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Anyone can still beat anyone out on a BB team, and **** does happen (injuries). They really couldn't have gone much lower on Chad's restructure because he's a 10 year veteran and the minium for them is $925K. They are obviously concerned about injury with Stallworth and Gonzales. But they obviously want to go into camp with plenty of margin for error and redundancy at the position. They may draft a rookie, but I doubt it will be with a first or even second. I think they will mine the later rounds via some trade backs for both WR and RB. I think most of the early draft attention will go to defense and possibly a center. Unless they opt to bring Koppen back and defer yet another year. Connolly's deal says we like you a lot, not we think you're our center of the future. We've got a lot of guys like that on both sides of the roster now - the kind you can get by with but certainly upgradable.

 

[THELAWFIRM226]

Oh I get it, this thread is an early april fools joke

 

[captain stone]

Does Branch's deal qualify for the veteran minimum discount, based on his accrued years of service?

If it doesn't, then it seems that he was overpaid. Who else was going to sign him?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

No, it doesn't. Because of the substantial signing and workout bonuses and incentives... He will count $1.575M

Bill isn't in the habit of overpaying his own players based on his understanding of their value to him. Nor is he in the habit of underpaying them just because they may not have as much value to another team. Fans take his value principles to extremes he doesn't by convincing themselves players are either worth elite money or nothing more than veteran minimum... Branch made $2M last season, and he was worth every cent of it from a production and performance standpoint.

 

[supafly]

Oh I get it, this thread is an early april fools joke

???

Elaborate, please.

 

[patfanken]

The disconnect with you seems to be you think the guys who retired in camp were resigned for that season. They weren't. Troy played his last down prior to the 2007 SB. He retired in 2008 after no one signed him. Rodney was a UFA when he retired. Tedy was still under contract when he retired. They just signed Branch for 2012, like they signed Faulk in 2011 and he didn't retire...

They aren't handing him $400K as a going away present.

No, my disconnect has nothing to do with the terms of his resigning. It has everything to do with my belief that Branch is no long one of the 5 best WRs the Pats now have under contract.

What you have done is conveniently ignore the last half of the season when Branch disappeared for the most part, especially when teams played tight physical defense. You have also conveniently forgotten that the team is going to give all of Deion's snaps to Brandon Lloyd, making him, at best, a back up and depth. A guy who will only get on the field when the Pats need a 5th receiver.

Other than the fact that Tom Brady likes him and is loyal to him, there is little to recommend keeping a WR who can only play on the outside, doesn't possess the skills to separate from tough man coverage, which the Pats will see more of, AND and would offer not other value except as a limited back up for Brandon Lloyd.

For all the angst that has gone into the subject of who the WRs corps should be comprised of. We are only talking about the guy whose major role will be to back up Brandon Lloyd. A guy, who if Lloyd is healthy, will only have about 15-30 catches all season. Its not an earth shattering deal in the big scheme of things.

Its a role that I feel would be better filled by Ocho who is bigger, stronger and more capable of getting off the kind of physical coverage that the Pats are seeing more and more. Or, if the Pats choose to draft a WR in the first 3 rounds, then both Branch and Ocho could go.in the interest of getting younger. But that is just my opinion.

I like Branch. I appreciate his contributions. I might even have felt differently if I thought teams would play the Pats in soft zones more. But I don't, and I can't see the wisdom in giving a valuable roster spot to a guy who can only contribute in such a limited capacity in the coming season.

Back ups have to do more to justify their spots on the roster, and Branch is NOT going to be on the field while Lloyd is healthy, he's NOT going to be the guy you want out there to stretch the field, he's NOT going to be the guy you want out there against tight physical coverage.

Right now I see Branch's role as providing a comfort blanket to the WR corps in case we don't draft a WR we feel we have to keep, or Ocho, Gonzo, and Stallworth ALL don't work out. And for that comfort they have given Deion $400,000 for the privilege.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Looks like Stallworth won't dress on game days.....seems like it's for depth ,but IMO it's a WTF signing if this is true.

Donte' Stallworth - New England Patriots - 2012 Player Profile - Rotoworld.com

 

[supafly]

No, my disconnect has nothing to do with the terms of his resigning. It has everything to do with my belief that Branch is no long one of the 5 best WRs the Pats now have under contract.

What you have done is conveniently ignore the last half of the season when Branch disappeared for the most part, especially when teams played tight physical defense. You have also conveniently forgotten that the team is going to give all of Deion's snaps to Brandon Lloyd, making him, at best, a back up and depth. A guy who will only get on the field when the Pats need a 5th receiver.

Other than the fact that Tom Brady likes him and is loyal to him, there is little to recommend keeping a WR who can only play on the outside, doesn't possess the skills to separate from tough man coverage, which the Pats will see more of, AND and would offer not other value except as a limited back up for Brandon Lloyd.

For all the angst that has gone into the subject of who the WRs corps should be comprised of. We are only talking about the guy whose major role will be to back up Brandon Lloyd. A guy, who if Lloyd is healthy, will only have about 15-30 catches all season. Its not an earth shattering deal in the big scheme of things.

Its a role that I feel would be better filled by Ocho who is bigger, stronger and more capable of getting off the kind of physical coverage that the Pats are seeing more and more. Or, if the Pats choose to draft a WR in the first 3 rounds, then both Branch and Ocho could go.in the interest of getting younger. But that is just my opinion.

I like Branch. I appreciate his contributions. I might even have felt differently if I thought teams would play the Pats in soft zones more. But I don't, and I can't see the wisdom in giving a valuable roster spot to a guy who can only contribute in such a limited capacity in the coming season.

Back ups have to do more to justify their spots on the roster, and Branch is NOT going to be on the field while Lloyd is healthy, he's NOT going to be the guy you want out there to stretch the field, he's NOT going to be the guy you want out there against tight physical coverage.

Right now I see Branch's role as providing a comfort blanket to the WR corps in case we don't draft a WR we feel we have to keep, or Ocho, Gonzo, and Stallworth ALL don't work out. And for that comfort they have given Deion $400,000 for the privilege.

51 catches is pretty decent when you're the 4th receiving option on the team. We went 14-2 and 13-3 the last 2 years with Branch as the WR2, so it's only natural to assume that if someone went down he could step in and get the job done for a few weeks or a month.

It's better than trying to rely on an outsider or rookie who does not possess the same knowledge of the system, and would have to start from scratch.

He has a good WR/QB relationship with Brady and an excellent knowledge of the system..these are his 2 biggest pluses.

He's obviously lost a step, and has a hard time beating physical man coverage..those are his 2 biggest minuses.

Overall, I am glad he'll be on the team. Having adequate depth with a guy who caught 51 balls last yr is a definite good thing, in my opinion.

Hopefully he won't have to see the field too much, and his services won't be needed; but if they are, he's a decent guy to have around.

 

[supafly]

Looks like Stallworth won't dress on game days.....seems like it's for depth ,but IMO it's a WTF signing if this is true.

Donte' Stallworth - New England Patriots - 2012 Player Profile - Rotoworld.com

These fantasy sites are simply speculating, in my opinion.

You could take the general consensus here on patsfans and come to the conclusion that IF Stallworth makes the team, he probably wouldn't be seeing the field too much.

However, IF he shows good hustle/skills and looks better than the majority of other WR's here, you can bet that Belichick will have him as the 4th/5th WR, which would mean that he would be active on many of the game days.

I highly doubt that anyone on the NEP staff has told "rotoworld" fantasy services their plans for WR depth in 2012--if they even know it right now, which is probably doubtful.

It's not a horribly poor depth signing in my opinion, it's not the greatest, but to go out and grab a handful of guys to improve depth/competition is rarely a bad thing.

I don't think it takes a group of brain surgeons to realize that in a perfect world the WR depth would probably be the following: (and this is likely where rotoworld gets their "personnel executives" opinion from)

1. Welker
2. Llyod
3. C.Johnson
4. Branch
5. Edelman
6. Slater

However, if either of Stallworth or Gonzalez show something significant enough, they can and will take over any of the slots from 3-6--depending upon the injury and talent situation. There is also the variable of whether or not either of Slater/Edelman will be considered WR's or not.

 

[Avenger]

IMO Stallworth opposite Lloyd with Welker in the slot would be a good 3 WR set.

 

[supafly]

IMO Stallworth opposite Lloyd with Welker in the slot would be a good 3 WR set.

We may end up seeing this.

In my opinion I think the variable of whether or not Chad Johnson makes significant progress or not will go a ways toward determining the final depth chart.

If Johnson does make progress, (and I believe they are still willing to give him that chance + they are hoping it will work out on some level, since he likely still has the best talent measurables in the remaining group) then your 3 WR set will probably be Welker, Lloyd, and Johnson.

The truth of the matter is that it will probably be a combination of some of the remaining WR's who are active, for different plays and possibilities. Welker, Llyod and X.

 

[Mystery Pats Fan]

I am jumping into this conversation rather late but I decided to throw in my three cents.

I believe that the odds of him staying are good. Mainly IMO is because Brady likes him and the two get along really good as far as their play on the field.

A lot however has to do with the draft, and of course Wes Welker.

Right now as things stand I can see a WR group consisting of Lloyd - Branch - Stallworth - Branch - Edelman- Ocho - Welker (or Gonzalez) (If six are retained)

What will play into the decision is how Hernandez will be used and every indication thus far is that he will be the H back with wide receiver capabilities as well as a mid range slant type receiver.

And then, of course, there is the "Gronkabeast" to consider and while not listed as a WR he certainly has a major part in the overall corps of receivers.

If Welker is not a Patriot this season (read into that what you want) then that would allow Gonzalez and/or Edelman filling that position. I for one like the Gonzalez pickup.

All in all I believe the Pats are in great shape for receivers - perhaps the best shape they have been in overall since the 07 season. In fact, maybe even better...overall.

Also, seeing as I am a new member here I can not start new threads till I have 50 posts so I would like to bring this up here, in this thread although it may not be pertinent.

With this good corps of receivers - hopefully the Pats can have safe size leads in the second halves of many games. If so I would love to see what Ryan Mallett can do to run the offense.

Sure, Hoyer will be listed as the backup but lets be honest - he will never take over for Brady if and when the time comes. Mallett is the heir apparent in my opinion so why not if the situation allows to get him into some games and see how he performs. I believe Mallett has what it takes and that he will be the one to take over for Brady when the time comes.

 

[Mystery Pats Fan]

These fantasy sites are simply speculating, in my opinion.

You could take the general consensus here on patsfans and come to the conclusion that IF Stallworth makes the team, he probably wouldn't be seeing the field too much.

However, IF he shows good hustle/skills and looks better than the majority of other WR's here, you can bet that Belichick will have him as the 4th/5th WR, which would mean that he would be active on many of the game days.

I highly doubt that anyone on the NEP staff has told "rotoworld" fantasy services their plans for WR depth in 2012--if they even know it right now, which is probably doubtful.

It's not a horribly poor depth signing in my opinion, it's not the greatest, but to go out and grab a handful of guys to improve depth/competition is rarely a bad thing.

I don't think it takes a group of brain surgeons to realize that in a perfect world the WR depth would probably be the following: (and this is likely where rotoworld gets their "personnel executives" opinion from)

1. Welker
2. Llyod
3. C.Johnson
4. Branch
5. Edelman
6. Slater

However, if either of Stallworth or Gonzalez show something significant enough, they can and will take over any of the slots from 3-6--depending upon the injury and talent situation. There is also the variable of whether or not either of Slater/Edelman will be considered WR's or not.

I think that you are being overly negative about Stallworth. I think that he makes the team and does well. With him and Lloyd keeping defenses busy deep then the others, including Hernandez and the Gronkabeast will have field days.

I was thinking that Ocho would be kept mainly because of the cash investment but with the additions of Gonzalez and Lloyd and Stallworth I have changed my mind. Ocho IMO is gone.

My six are
Lloyd
Welker
Gonzalez
Branch
Edelman
Stallworth

And lets not forget Hernandez who is more of a H back/WR than a tight end.

 

[ProudestRyno]

and rapore with Brady.