Day 1 FA - Will YOU Be Able to Keep It in Perspective?

[shmessy]

I was never a Tevow will start guy but I thought he was the ideal team mate and a great example to the younger guys to work hard and stay on the straight and narrow.

200 guys and gals here could do THAT.

We all agree, Timmy is a nice boy.

 

[shmessy]

Research 1960-2000

"Research"??? I LIVED those years as a Pats fan (at least 1974-2000).

Got news for ya: The guy making these FA decisions wasn't here in those years either.

Chicken and egg.

 

[Joker]

we had a monster team in the 70's...Ben dreith stopped us from our first Super Bowl IMO...I will die believing that

 

[Kontradiction]

Very good points, Kontra.

The only thing I would quibble about is to move your #10 to #1.

I also think your #3 is too high - - if they get your #4 (move TE), what they have now at WR looks an awful lot better - - I'd let those kids develop in the system. Too much was asked of them last year because the Pats had **** salad at TE.

I wasn't listing those in order. I was going from the inside out on both sides of the ball. As for the WR's, I'm assuming that not all of them will make the second year leap. With that in mind, it's still a need. Look at it this way: They sign a Nicks to a one year deal or a James Jones and that guy comes in and kills it on top of the rooks making the second year leap, and you have an overload at the position that is absolutely lethal. Even more lethal than if you hadn't have made the move in FA.

 

[borg]

"Research"??? I LIVED those years as a Pats fan (at least 1974-2000).

Got news for ya: The guy making these FA decisions wasn't here in those years either.

Chicken and egg.

The "guy" is working an 0 for 9 streak............but who doesn't love koolaid....HOMEbrew

 

[shmessy]

I wasn't listing those in order. I was going from the inside out on both sides of the ball. As for the WR's, I'm assuming that not all of them will make the second year leap. With that in mind, it's still a need. Look at it this way: They sign a Nicks to a one year deal or a James Jones and that guy comes in and kills it on top of the rooks making the second year leap, and you have an overload at the position that is absolutely lethal. Even more lethal than if you hadn't have made the move in FA.

I think the complement TE to Gronkowski is a far bigger priority, but yes, talent at any position is a good thing.

It all depends on cap cost.

The Pats haven't been cheap. Those teams with $30-50 million in cap space that they are competing with right now have been.

 

[Joker]

an 0 for 9 streak??? you mean Super Bowl wins? oh I get it...all other teams are better and the Pats are 0-9 so they suck...as usual.

don't ever change, burg

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

I will be as calm and level headed as I am on draft days......

 

[shmessy]

The "guy" is working an 0 for 9 streak............but who doesn't love koolaid....HOMEbrew

What a terrible 9 years this has been. 110-34.

2 SB appearances. Both lost in the final 2 minutes by 4 points.

They suck!

......but who doesn't love a TROLLeken?

 

[Kontradiction]

I think the complement TE to Gronkowski is a far bigger priority, but yes, talent at any position is a good thing.

It all depends on cap cost.

The Pats haven't been cheap. Those teams with $30-50 million in cap space that they are competing with right now have been.

They can get that TE in the draft. Look up Austin Sefarian-Jenkins highlights and tell me you don't like what you see and don't think that he could contribute immediately. We may not even have to use a first rounder on him. It is, however, hard to expect a rookie WR to contribute immediately in this offense, as we saw last season. That position needs to be filled by a vet. And more than a mid-level or lower-level vet like Molasses Mike or Donald Jones. The Pats have room to play, and that's even before a restructure/cut of Wilfork. If Wilfork restructures or gets cut? Forget about it.

 

[patfanken]

Didn't say it was an impossibility. But it is unreasonable to expect unless the team gets lucky and is in the position to draft the next Rodgers to their Favre. The guys that take your stance sound like some of the guys on south Florida talk radio when Marino was getting up there. The team has the following holes/needs:

1. C
2. OG
3. WR (even with Edelman re-signing)
4. Move TE
5. DT
6. Pass rushing 3-tech
7. DE (possibly multiple of the team is looking for a rotation)
8. LB
9. CB
10. SS

It's unreasonable to think that these holes are all going to get filled through the draft and signing mid-level FA's while the team let's Talib and Edelman ride off. They have the cap space to be active even before they restructure/cut Wilfork. They were competitive last year even with the injuries, but would have stood little to no chance against Seattle or SF. With a couple of well placed moves in both FA and the draft, this is a team that could easily hoist the Lombardi. They just have to tweak (not completely change) the way they normally do things. They have the resources at their disposal to do it, though.

I sympathize, Kontra, it must not be easy living under a dark cloud all the time. But, I haven't seen this kind of negativity in a while.

What you have done with the above missive is to completely blur the very different meanings of want/need/hole. By doing that you and make the ridiculous case that we have a hole at DE despite the fact we already have 2 better than average ones. The same can be said for most of you claims. Let me break it down for you in to groups.

1. WANTS - Well you can pretty much list every position on the roster because EVERY team goes into a season "wanting" to upgrade at EVERY position. For example I'd like to upgrade at C and RG this season, but we don't NEED to. Wendell and Connolly are both very serviceable guys, BUT guys you'd want to upgrade given the chance.

2. NEEDS - This are things that you have to add because of retirements, injuries, or players not working out, or might not work out. We have 2 very fine DE's but we "need" to add a more reliable #3 because Buchanon is still in Development, and the Arkansas kid didn't work out. LB is another example. We will line up 3 very good LB's next season, but we need more depth, so adding (for example) Fletcher and Woodyard would go a long way to solving that problem. Other areas, are a 5th WR. We "need" 2 TE's etc

3 Holes - This is were you are bereft of talent and you not only need to add starting quality talent, but back up as well. Personally I see only one "hole" and that's in first class DT talent. SJones and Siliga are decent role players, and Vince, Kelly and Armstead are all unknowns at this time. Right now we have a huge hole at DT....and that's about it.

So in reality we have one hole, a few needs, and the same number of wants that every team has. Every team's fans should be so lucky,

 

[Huckleberry1]

Kontra is dead on when it comes to needs and it is obvious that the best chances for the Patriots to win another ring come with Brady, not his successor, Andrew Luck is not walking through that door.

The Patriots "window" is 3-4 seasons, after that they have to find a young QB to keep the winning tradition alive. At this point that is a hope and they really should be as aggessive as possible in creating a truly great team to help Brady and Belichick win another 1-2 rings before they hang them up. On the bright side belichick is if nothing else a student of football history and is well aware of where he and Brady stand in that context, and he knows full well that 1-2 more rings makes them the greatest coach and QB in league history, as well as putting an exclamation mark as these Patriot teams among the greatest in history. And while he may not blow out the bank to get it done I don't think he is going to be conservative in his approach to getting those rings. It may not be the obvious free agent big name moves people love so much but i see him adding good and really good players to this roster throughout the offseason, and i see him addressing most if not all of the needs Kontra stated with some really good players. Julius Peppers, Jared Allen, Malcom Jenkins, Wesley Woodyard, Rodgers-Cromartie, Arthur Jones, Linval Joseph. etc...should all be considerations if they come free as expected. I expect the focus to be on defense and then they will address remaining offensive needs in the draft.

 

[shmessy]

I sympathize, Kontra, it must not be easy living under a dark cloud all the time. But, I haven't seen this kind of negativity in a while.

What you have done with the above missive is to completely blur the very different meanings of want/need/hole. By doing that you and make the ridiculous case that we have a hole at DE despite the fact we already have 2 better than average ones. The same can be said for most of you claims. Let me break it down for you in to groups.

1. WANTS - Well you can pretty much list every position on the roster because EVERY team goes into a season "wanting" to upgrade at EVERY position. For example I'd like to upgrade at C and RG this season, but we don't NEED to. Wendell and Connolly are both very serviceable guys, BUT guys you'd want to upgrade given the chance.

2. NEEDS - This are things that you have to add because of retirements, injuries, or players not working out, or might not work out. We have 2 very fine DE's but we "need" to add a more reliable #3 because Buchanon is still in Development, and the Arkansas kid didn't work out. LB is another example. We will line up 3 very good LB's next season, but we need more depth, so adding (for example) Fletcher and Woodyard would go a long way to solving that problem. Other areas, are a 5th WR. We "need" 2 TE's etc

3 Holes - This is were you are bereft of talent and you not only need to add starting quality talent, but back up as well. Personally I see only one "hole" and that's in first class DT talent. SJones and Siliga are decent role players, and Vince, Kelly and Armstead are all unknowns at this time. Right now we have a huge hole at DT....and that's about it.

So in reality we have one hole, a few needs, and the same number of wants that every team has. Every team's fans should be so lucky,

Ken, we NEED an impact SS and TE to complement Gronk VERY BADLY.

To me, going into the season with Dennard and Ryan at CB is not as big a worry as those other two positions.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I see what you've done there.

It sounds like you're happy with mediocrity then. I personally don't get excited when we sign guys like Hooman, Arrington for top dollar, a chronically injured Amendola and Austin Collie. Maybe that means I don't know football very well.

Only a very particular brand of Pats fan would call the best record in the league over the past three years and three consecutive trips to the AFCCG 'mediocrity'. It's not ideal, but it's far from mediocre.

 

[shmessy]

Only a very particular brand of Pats fan would call the best record in the league over the past three years and three consecutive trips to the AFCCG 'mediocrity'. It's not ideal, but it's far from mediocre.

BradyFTW, you win the Nobel Peace Prize for that diplomatically worded post!

 

[mayoclinic]

Per Adam Schefter, Pats unable to come to an agreement with Julian Edelman, who will test free agency.

Perspective, people!

 

[patsfan13]

.....or that you must LOVE the Redskins.

The rest of us get excited by 13 straight winning seasons and perennially in the tournament every single year at the end. By then, it is just a dice throw regarding team health.

Gee only 8 AFCCG's in 12 years total mediocracy, guess Gronknandez hasn't been following the pats for 40-50 years.....
http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

 

[Huckleberry1]

They can get that TE in the draft. Look up Austin Sefarian-Jenkins highlights and tell me you don't like what you see and don't think that he could contribute immediately. We may not even have to use a first rounder on him. It is, however, hard to expect a rookie WR to contribute immediately in this offense, as we saw last season. That position needs to be filled by a vet. And more than a mid-level or lower-level vet like Molasses Mike or Donald Jones. The Pats have room to play, and that's even before a restructure/cut of Wilfork. If Wilfork restructures or gets cut? Forget about it.

I agree with this, TE should be a draft priority and ASJ should be available and able to contribute immediately as the counterpart to gronk. There is no impact TE available in free agency so vet depth is the best we can hope for their . Safety should be addressed in free agency if possible because they don't need a learning curve there they need a vet who can contribute day one. I think they can get a veteran receiver to fill out their unit in free agency and will be fine if Edelman returns, but if they get shut out there then the draft is still an option. On the DL i think free agency is the best option, especially given the way the draft seems to be shaking out in the first round, guys like Donald are going to be long gone and i don't want a crapshot like Hagemann to be counted upon. They really need a 3rd passrushing DE to be in rotation with Ninkovich and Jones, and as starting caliber depth, and hopefully they can convince either Allen or Peppers to come here. Go defense heavy in free agency and offense in the draft.


Pipedream Wishlist:

DL-Arthur Jones/ Linval Joseph

DE-Jared Allen/ Julius Peppers

LB- Wesley Woodyard/LB to be named later

S-Jarius Byrd/ Malcolm Jenkins

CB-Aquib Talib/ Rodgers-Cromartie

Big names, I know, but after all it is a pipedream wishlist. I will take one of each please. Then ASJ and then Westburg or Swanson and Jordan Mathews in the 3rd.

Oh yeah, throw in Darren Sproles.

 

[Joker]

OMG!!!...I...I...I've LOST my perspective!!!

Help me!!

 

[Kontradiction]

I sympathize, Kontra, it must not be easy living under a dark cloud all the time. But, I haven't seen this kind of negativity in a while.

What you have done with the above missive is to completely blur the very different meanings of want/need/hole. By doing that you and make the ridiculous case that we have a hole at DE despite the fact we already have 2 better than average ones. The same can be said for most of you claims. Let me break it down for you in to groups.

1. WANTS - Well you can pretty much list every position on the roster because EVERY team goes into a season "wanting" to upgrade at EVERY position. For example I'd like to upgrade at C and RG this season, but we don't NEED to. Wendell and Connolly are both very serviceable guys, BUT guys you'd want to upgrade given the chance.

2. NEEDS - This are things that you have to add because of retirements, injuries, or players not working out, or might not work out. We have 2 very fine DE's but we "need" to add a more reliable #3 because Buchanon is still in Development, and the Arkansas kid didn't work out. LB is another example. We will line up 3 very good LB's next season, but we need more depth, so adding (for example) Fletcher and Woodyard would go a long way to solving that problem. Other areas, are a 5th WR. We "need" 2 TE's etc

3 Holes - This is were you are bereft of talent and you not only need to add starting quality talent, but back up as well. Personally I see only one "hole" and that's in first class DT talent. SJones and Siliga are decent role players, and Vince, Kelly and Armstead are all unknowns at this time. Right now we have a huge hole at DT....and that's about it.

So in reality we have one hole, a few needs, and the same number of wants that every team has. Every team's fans should be so lucky,

Ken, before you spend time and effort making a brain dead post next time, please read the entire post that you're quoting. If you had done that, you would have seen this part...

The team has the following holes/needs:

That means that I'm listing positions with both holes and needs. With that in mind, let's revisit the list...

1. C
Wednell is a free agent and, even before then, was a huge weak link on the OL. So, before it became a hole, it was a need.

2. OG
Need. Connolly is a better center than a guard. The team could still upgrade there.

3. WR (even with Edelman re-signing)
Need. The team doesn't have a true flanker.

4. Move TE
Do I even have to explain why this is a hole?

5. DT
Wilfork is either coming back fresh off an Achilles tear or is getting cut. DT, either way, is a need.

6. Pass rushing 3-tech
Hole. Once Kelly went down, the team didn't have a true pass rushing 3-tech.

7. DE (possibly multiple of the team is looking for a rotation)
Unless you like watching both Nink and Jones get gassed by season's end, there is a real need for a rotation of guys.

8. LB
Hole and need. Spikes is gone, leaving a hole in his place. If you don't agree there, it's still a need since the team seems to be moving on from the big leadfoot/thumper LB's of the past few years. This could change if they bring in Woodyard, though.

9. CB
Hole. Talib hasn't signed the dotted line yet.

10. SS
Hole. Even before it was a hole, it was a need since Gregory was an overpaid back-up at best. Happy to see Belichick came to his senses on that one.

Any further questions?