Darrelle Revis just got destroyed

[Ring 6]

That is the best you are going to get. If you don't believe their raw stats that is fine.

I thought it was well understood that PFF is a joke.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I thought it was well understood that PFF is a joke.

I think that was true a couple of years ago. I think they are improved. They've taken on a ton of investment dollars over the last couple of years, done some hiring, etc.

As I said earlier, how they derive at their ratings and analytics is flawed.

 

[Ring 6]

I think that was true a couple of years ago. I think they are improved. They've taken on a ton of investment dollars over the last couple of years, done some hiring, etc.

As I said earlier, how they derive at their ratings and analytics is flawed.

Butctheircratings and analytics being flawed taints the analytic numbers you are relying on.
In addition to Watkins torching him Hopkins was well over 100 and both jags WRs were over 120.
Thats 350+ to those 3 guys and I saw each of thise games. He did get owned.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Does revis have a hip injury? He did not seem as fluid as he usually is. He failed repeatedly to break down, makes me think he played with a hip pointer or back injury.

 

[NormZauchin]

The IRS is, and so are the state level tax collectors. They get a big slice, roughly half. Then add in his agents, and his family, and his posse, and he's feeding a lot of mouths. But even still, he's set for life, unless he's a total idiot (but when it comes to money, many NFL players are idiots).

And now by locking down SOOO much money on DL and DB that the Jets will need an awful lot of awful cheap players to be able to contend going forward.

I understand that Revis Island is an off shore tax haven, and that the IRS won't be getting any money from him.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Revis Galaxy

Revis Archipelago (I like this one best, but I think most people wouldn't immediately grasp it.)

 

[Kdo5]

I would still take him back in a second for cheap money if they cut him.

He pissed me off when he opened his mouth about Brady after leaving. We don't need him and if we did still want him he'd need to push his ego aside (fat chance) and take a major pay cut.

I'd rather develop our young guys. See what we can get out of Cyrus, Coleman and Rowe.

 

[patfanken]

No doubt green is good but being beaten consistently is being beaten consistently whether you are close or not which he wasn't on the long TD.
Whenever he was in man dalton picked on him
I'm not saying he is the worst corner in the NFL but I am saying if you run your defense under the assumption he is the best corner in the NFL he is going to look a lot more like the worst one in terms of production.

Did anyone say he was "the best CB in the NFL" Andy? I said he was a very good CB. I also said he isn't worth the money the Jets are paying him. In fact NO CB is worth that much. But to say, like some people implied, that Greene was beating him like a rug, is just disingenuous. It is like saying Larry Fitzgerald was beating Logan Ryan like a drum, when most of the time Ryan was right with Larry or in a zone coverage....or picked. Having great coverage on a receiver is not always a guarantee the pass won't be completed.

Now back to the issue of Revis, maybe we can agree that Revis can no longer be left on an island against an elite WR anymore like he could in his heyday. Maybe he can no longer capable of shutting down half the field. Maybe, at this point in his career, he is merely a very good NFL CB.

 

[goheels22002]

I looked at the Revis-Green matchup and read the stories. It was impressive what the Bengals did to target Revis on routes that forced Revis to react quickly to Green blowing through the five- to eight-yard cushion that Revis gave Green at the line of scrimmage. The Bengals knew that the Jets safeties were focused elsewhere and would leave Revis out to dry over the top. The 54-yard TD was classic bad safety coverage.

The Bengals also did a nice job with multiple bunch routes, throwing to AJ Green underneath and getting Revis lost in the wash. Again, nobody was sent to knife through the defense to smack Green after the snap. It was an easy five to eight yards whenever the Bengals needed it.

The Jets made no adjustment to help Revis with Green. 10 for 10 for 152 yards in single coverage is a guy getting beat and needing help. Revis was there and never really out of position, but nobody covers a guy like Green with the success the Bengals were having. Dalton looked good and clearly has faith in Green to be where he's supposed to be. The Jets should have switched up and disrupted Green inside the 5-yard contact area.

You at least go to Cover 2 and jam the crap out of the receiver, for starters. If this were the Patriots, Butler would be all over Green at the line like a cheap suit, and forcing the refs to throw a flag. Revis sat back on all those catches and tried to react to a guy who is at least as fast and who has a terrific catching radius.

You can bet that teams will watch this tape and start picking on Revis. It's not that his cover skills are gone, it's that the Jets are predictable and didn't adjust.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

So the Jets sacked Dalton 7 times, the Bengals were playing without Eiffert, and AJ Green, their only hope to move the ball, saw constant single coverage? Lol

 

[slash83]

Thankful for Revis helping the Pats win a SB, but hope he continues to suck in NY.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Butctheircratings and analytics being flawed taints the analytic numbers you are relying on.
In addition to Watkins torching him Hopkins was well over 100 and both jags WRs were over 120.
Thats 350+ to those 3 guys and I saw each of thise games. He did get owned.

Raw stats are not analytics. I do not rely on their analytics for anything.

 

[Ring 6]

Did anyone say he was "the best CB in the NFL" Andy? I said he was a very good CB. I also said he isn't worth the money the Jets are paying him. In fact NO CB is worth that much. But to say, like some people implied, that Greene was beating him like a rug, is just disingenuous. It is like saying Larry Fitzgerald was beating Logan Ryan like a drum, when most of the time Ryan was right with Larry or in a zone coverage....or picked. Having great coverage on a receiver is not always a guarantee the pass won't be completed.

Now back to the issue of Revis, maybe we can agree that Revis can no longer be left on an island against an elite WR anymore like he could in his heyday. Maybe he can no longer capable of shutting down half the field. Maybe, at this point in his career, he is merely a very good NFL CB.

Green did beat him like a rug.
He is not very good any more.

 

[Ring 6]

Raw stats are not analytics. I do not rely on their analytics for anything.

They are not raw. They are making judgment calls about who to consider thrown at. That is an analytic. If you watched the games you saw revis beaten way more than he has ever been before. That's just a fact.

 

[RobertWeathers]

They are not raw. They are making judgment calls about who to consider thrown at. That is an analytic. If you watched the games you saw revis beaten way more than he has ever been before. That's just a fact.

I'm not going to get into an argument over what is raw data and what is analysis.

My choice is to take PFF's raw data and do my own analysis. That is the context of my statement.

I did watch Revis play in 2015 and over a 16 game season I do not believe he was a bad as he was in the two games you mention.

If you think Revis was not a top 5 corner in 2015 and you thing PFF's accumulation of raw statistics is worthless then that is your opinion.

BTW PFF agrees with your assessment of the Hopkins and Watkins games.

Analyzing how Jets' Darrelle Revis (beaten by DeAndre Hopkins, Sammy Watkins) played in 2015

 

[Ring 6]

I'm not going to get into an argument over what is raw data and what is analysis.

My choice is to take PFF's raw data and do my own analysis. That is the context of my statement.

I did watch Revis play in 2015 and over a 16 game season I do not believe he was a bad as he was in the two games you mention.

If you think Revis was not a top 5 corner in 2015 and you thing PFF's accumulation of raw statistics is worthless then that is your opinion.

BTW PFF agrees with your assessment of the Hopkins and Watkins games.

Analyzing how Jets' Darrelle Revis (beaten by DeAndre Hopkins, Sammy Watkins) played in 2015

A raw statistic is a receiver caught 10 passes on 14 targets. An analysis is judging who to consider the guy in coverage on those throws. There is no raw NFL statistic that attributes a pass play to a defender as the target. So to use PFF numbers is to accept their analysis.

You seem to be saying their analysis is flawed while at the same time using it to make your argument.
You started out saying they weren't PFF numbers. When I showed you they were you defended PFF calling defensive target stats raw which is silly.
Now you use a PFF analysis article to back up your argument.
PFF is garbage.

 

[RobertWeathers]

A raw statistic is a receiver caught 10 passes on 14 targets. An analysis is judging who to consider the guy in coverage on those throws. There is no raw NFL statistic that attributes a pass play to a defender as the target. So to use PFF numbers is to accept their analysis.

Ok we agree. There are targets. That is a raw stat. There are catches. That is a raw stat. If PFF is saying that Revis is responsible for allowing the receiver to catch the ball or deflecting/defending the throw then I am accepting their assessment of the play. I am not accepting their analysis if Revis is good or not. The action of determining if the CB is good or bad is done by me.

You seem to be saying their analysis is flawed while at the same time using it to make your argument.
You started out saying they weren't PFF numbers.

I said their rating systems were flawed. I never said their raw stats were.

I said comp % against was not a PFF stat. Its generic. The link I sent you and its data was from PFF. PFF does not have a copyright on the CB comp % against metric.

When I showed you they were you defended PFF calling defensive target stats raw which is silly. Now you use a PFF analysis article to back up your argument. PFF is garbage.

I defended the raw stats and their assessment if a player was defending the play.

Look- you think PFF sucks and Revis was a good- not elite CB in 2015 then that is your perrogative. Lets move on.

 

[Ring 6]

Ok we agree. There are targets. That is a raw stat.

No it is not, not for a defender. Unless you know the coverage, how do you assign a target to a defender? Who was the defender on the Hogan TD? Who 'got that target"? The corner sat like he had a short zone, and the safety was nowhere to be seen. Who that target, catch, 37 yards and TD is assigned to is an analytic.

There are catches. That is a raw stat. If PFF is saying that Revis is responsible for allowing the receiver to catch the ball or deflecting/defending the throw then I am accepting their assessment of the play. I am not accepting their analysis if Revis is good or not. The action of determining if the CB is good or bad is done by me.

All of their assessments are based upon the analysis. You are taking the numbers that come out of those assessments and using them to judge Revis as a top 5 corner because PFF wrote an article comparing him to 15 other corners they selected and said he was top 5 in stats based upon their analysis.
You are doing nothing to determine whether the corner is good other than quoting PFF contrived and flawed stats, and an article that didn't even say what you thought it did.
You have made zero comment about your determining whether he is a good corner or not, just saying he is top 5 based on stats and analysis that are solely created by PFF.

I said their rating systems were flawed. I never said their raw stats were.

Once again, judging what defender is considered the 'target' is analysis. Those stats are not raw, they are manipulated by the judgment of PFF.

I said comp % against was not a PFF stat. Its generic.

100% wrong. PFF is the only place that does that. They are the only place that uses passing stats as defender stats by using THEIR ASSESSMENT of who to charge the coverage to. If you do not know the coverage, how do you assess a large chunk of the plays, such as Hogans?
Comp % against is an opinion, and the only people who use that opinion statistic are PFF.

The link I sent you and its data was from PFF. PFF does not have a copyright on the CB comp % against metric.

I don't know if they copyright it, but they are the only ones who use it. That is why I knew if was PFF garbage stat when you were denying it.
Official NFL stats are raw. Things that only PFF does is analysis.

I defended the raw stats and their assessment if a player was defending the play.

But you agree they suck, unless it suits your purpose and then you agree with their assessment.
If their ratings are terrible, why would you have any confidence in their ability to determine who was in coverage? Granted there are many plays where it is clear, but there are far too many that are not to give any credence to their numbers.

Look- you think PFF sucks and Revis was a good- not elite CB in 2015 then that is your perrogative. Lets move on.

Elite shouldn't even be in the discussion. Pretty much every top WR he faced lit him up (Dez Bryant didn't because he was injured and Kellen Moore was the QB). You have to watch the games and not rely on PFF. Good is subjective. I know I wouldn't want him one on one with a top WR all day if he was on my team, because the results speak for themselves. Against a team without a real #1, he seems to do fine, but I don't how he would do if they used him differently. I think what is obvious is that he simply can no longer take away a WR.

 

[RobertWeathers]

No it is not, not for a defender. Unless you know the coverage, how do you assign a target to a defender? Who was the defender on the Hogan TD? Who 'got that target"? The corner sat like he had a short zone, and the safety was nowhere to be seen. Who that target, catch, 37 yards and TD is assigned to is an analytic.


All of their assessments are based upon the analysis. You are taking the numbers that come out of those assessments and using them to judge Revis as a top 5 corner because PFF wrote an article comparing him to 15 other corners they selected and said he was top 5 in stats based upon their analysis.
You are doing nothing to determine whether the corner is good other than quoting PFF contrived and flawed stats, and an article that didn't even say what you thought it did.
You have made zero comment about your determining whether he is a good corner or not, just saying he is top 5 based on stats and analysis that are solely created by PFF.




Once again, judging what defender is considered the 'target' is analysis. Those stats are not raw, they are manipulated by the judgment of PFF.

100% wrong. PFF is the only place that does that. They are the only place that uses passing stats as defender stats by using THEIR ASSESSMENT of who to charge the coverage to. If you do not know the coverage, how do you assess a large chunk of the plays, such as Hogans?
Comp % against is an opinion, and the only people who use that opinion statistic are PFF.


I don't know if they copyright it, but they are the only ones who use it. That is why I knew if was PFF garbage stat when you were denying it.
Official NFL stats are raw. Things that only PFF does is analysis.




But you agree they suck, unless it suits your purpose and then you agree with their assessment.
If their ratings are terrible, why would you have any confidence in their ability to determine who was in coverage? Granted there are many plays where it is clear, but there are far too many that are not to give any credence to their numbers.


Elite shouldn't even be in the discussion. Pretty much every top WR he faced lit him up (Dez Bryant didn't because he was injured and Kellen Moore was the QB). You have to watch the games and not rely on PFF. Good is subjective. I know I wouldn't want him one on one with a top WR all day if he was on my team, because the results speak for themselves. Against a team without a real #1, he seems to do fine, but I don't how he would do if they used him differently. I think what is obvious is that he simply can no longer take away a WR.

I really don't know WTF your problem is this morning.

 

[Ring 6]

I really don't know WTF your problem is this morning.

No problem just having a discussion. I'm surprised you have suddenly become Mr PFF.