Could This Be What Goodell Really Wants?

[The Gr8est]

I agree. We're addicts and the NFL has our fix.

At some point, there will be a tipping point. At some point, it will be like the NBA.

However, we've seen three weeks of debacles thus far, and which one of us is not going to turn on the Buffalo-New England game this Sunday?

I agree with those that use the phrase "playing with fire." I have no idea what/when the tipping point will be. Maybe it will be a gradual process, maybe something will swing the balance.

But all I know is, for now, people are watching the NFL at higher rates than ever and the NFL has more parity than I can ever remember. So what has Goodell really lost by employing these hack refs?

Yeah we're addicts, but for me personnally, there are limits.

I have followed the Pats since I was a small boy, hoping against hope that the team that I followed so religiously, and had failed me so consistently, could somehow make it to the top and be the NFL champion.

I was finally rewarded in 2001 and the past decade has been more than I could have hoped for. That said, I have been souring somewhat on the whole NFL experience to the point that if the NFL gave me a good reason, I could walk away and not look back.

I would never be able to muster up any enthusiasm for another team, and it is not the Pats who are making me feel this way; it is the NFL itself, although certainly the overreaction and demonization of the Pats by Goodell and jealous fans of other teams has contributed mightily.

I suspect that the fact that the Pats are still a premiere franchise and look to still be a special team worth watching has held sway to keep me invested, but make no mistake, when the Pats hit hard times again, I will be done with the NFL.

Unfortunately, if the current referee debacle continues I may move in that direction sooner than planned.

 

[Deus Irae]

I don't think that Goodell particularly cares about either of these points. No one has suggested that the replacement refs are biased...

You haven't been paying attention if you really think this. It's been suggested, it's been said, and it's been proven in one case (New Orleans game).

 

[Deus Irae]

NFL breaks the refs this season and in the process screws up the playoffs.

New full time refs for 2013 will give them the PR cover to repair what non substantive damage occurs this season. Your NBA point is well taken but it took years and over a decade to destroy that much more fragile product. NFL is robust enough to withstand a 6 month you-know-what storm.

Baseball thought the same thing. It was right time and again.




And then it was wrong.

 

[Patriot Missile]

The NBA has lost a good chunk of it's viewership over the years due to bad officiating. What makes you think that the NFL won't? I think both you and Mo are putting too much stock into the amount of people that enjoy the product. People enjoy the product that was put on the field prior to the scab referees bumbling it this year. Over time, if this keeps occurring, people will walk away just like they did, and continue to do, with the NBA. Goodell doesn't want to lose money, and if the replacement refs keep at it, he eventually will.

It gets old quick. These replacements keep screwing up these games and I will beg to differ with anyone who thinks the game will get 10 fans for every 1 that quits. I could see more like a 100 quit to each new fan. Imagine having to watch what we are watching until the end of the season. Its quite annoying actually and makes me want to turn the **** off and we are only going into week 4. No flow to the games and phantom calls is a lousy product. Btw i think a deal gets done by week 5 though. Nfl just isn't that stupid. Are they?

 

[mayoclinic]

You haven't been paying attention if you really think this. It's been suggested, it's been said, and it's been proven in one case (New Orleans game).

No, I've been paying attention. I'm aware of the New Orleans side judge incident. That lineman was removed prior to the game.

To the best of my knowledge, no one has reasonably suggested that the use of replacement refs is resulting in a bias towards certain teams. People have most certainly suggested that the refs are creating a less controlled environment which may favor certain styles of play, and that the overall quality of officiating has deteriorated, to the point of affecting the outcome of some games. But I don't think anyone has suggested that that is the result of any inherent bias or preferential treatment, and if they have, I have yet to see anything that would corroborate such a point of view.

The fact is that the refs - regular or replacement - affect the outcome of games all the time. It's somewhat inevitable given the nature of football. In a game which combines trench warfare with aerial acrobatics, some kind of holding, pushing off or other form of marginal contact, the refs could probably call a penalty any time that they wanted to. I don't think a game goes by in which there aren't several critical judgment calls that could potentially affect the ruling of a game. Heck, we wouldn't have won our first SB except for a disputed call by "regular" referees. It's inevitable that teams, players, fans and media on the "wrong" end of those calls would see them differently from those on the other side.

It's clear to me that the quality of officiating right now is poorer than with the regular refs. It's clear to me that the replacement refs have a hard time keeping control of games. It's clear to me that they've made mistakes, some of which have impacted games, but it's not clear to me that the regular refs wouldn't have made mistakes as well. And it's not at all clear to me that any of this is really undermining the "integrity" of the game, or that the league really cares as long as ratings continue to soar and money comes in.

I have no doubts that if the replacement refs start costing the NFL money, directly or indirectly, they will be gone PDQ.

 

[E1Downey]

Who knows? I think i can smell a little conspiracy here. This whole problem would make scripting games easier too.
Take last night for example. The review process took quite some time. Now maybe the "booth review" refs have a direct line to NFL command center. While it looks like the play is being reviewed, perhaps the upstairs refs are making a phone call to command center and getting the instructions on how to end this game. The scenarios are as endless as they are crazy!
This whole thing is turning me into a nut.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Deus Irae]

No, I've been paying attention. I'm aware of the New Orleans side judge incident. That lineman was removed prior to the game.

To the best of my knowledge, no one has reasonably suggested that the use of replacement refs is resulting in a bias towards certain teams. People have most certainly suggested that the refs are creating a less controlled environment which may favor certain styles of play, and that the overall quality of officiating has deteriorated, to the point of affecting the outcome of some games. But I don't think anyone has suggested that that is the result of any inherent bias or preferential treatment, and if they have, I have yet to see anything that would corroborate such a point of view.

The fact is that the refs - regular or replacement - affect the outcome of games all the time. It's somewhat inevitable given the nature of football. In a game which combines trench warfare with aerial acrobatics, some kind of holding, pushing off or other form of marginal contact, the refs could probably call a penalty any time that they wanted to. I don't think a game goes by in which there aren't several critical judgment calls that could potentially affect the ruling of a game. Heck, we wouldn't have won our first SB except for a disputed call by "regular" referees. It's inevitable that teams, players, fans and media on the "wrong" end of those calls would see them differently from those on the other side.

It's clear to me that the quality of officiating right now is poorer than with the regular refs. It's clear to me that the replacement refs have a hard time keeping control of games. It's clear to me that they've made mistakes, some of which have impacted games, but it's not clear to me that the regular refs wouldn't have made mistakes as well. And it's not at all clear to me that any of this is really undermining the "integrity" of the game, or that the league really cares as long as ratings continue to soar and money comes in.

I have no doubts that if the replacement refs start costing the NFL money, directly or indirectly, they will be gone PDQ.

The bias being noted most often is a home team bias. And game results are getting changed. Integrity doesn't get much more undermined than that.

 

[goheels22002]

They already give pensions to the officials. This is about taking them away.

On this point, I agree with the NFL owners. Pensions are anachronisms and create an expensive long-term liability, especially when tied to some percentage of the final compensation package for the employee. I think the referees get something like a military pension - 80% of the of the average of the last three years compensation for life.

The point is valid: why should the NFL fund the referees pensions long after they can no longer perform the job?

I think the present offer on the table is not to dissolve the pension, just to grandfather in current employees in the program now and start the 401k with the next hire. The NFL also wants more leverage to fire the older officials, which is why Markright and Hoculi and those guys are fighting so hard. Right now they can be let go for cause, but the evidence has to be clear on film that they are making mistakes.

Fundamentally, the referees want a better deal than the players and the other team personnel have. They won't win, but they sure can cash in if they take advantage of the current situation.

It's a terrific opportunity for the union to get big gains in compensation to dump the pension plan. If the union wants money in place of the pension, this is a very good week to make that deal.

 

[Koma]

"Could this be what Goodell really wants?"

We are through the looking glass people. Black is white. Up is down.

 

[Deus Irae]

On this point, I agree with the NFL owners. Pensions are anachronisms and create an expensive long-term liability, especially when tied to some percentage of the final compensation package for the employee. I think the referees get something like a military pension - 80% of the of the average of the last three years compensation for life.

The point is valid: why should the NFL fund the referees pensions long after they can no longer perform the job?

I think the present offer on the table is not to dissolve the pension, just to grandfather in current employees in the program now and start the 401k with the next hire. The NFL also wants more leverage to fire the older officials, which is why Markright and Hoculi and those guys are fighting so hard. Right now they can be let go for cause, but the evidence has to be clear on film that they are making mistakes.

Fundamentally, the referees want a better deal than the players and the other team personnel have. They won't win, but they sure can cash in if they take advantage of the current situation.

It's a terrific opportunity for the union to get big gains in compensation to dump the pension plan. If the union wants money in place of the pension, this is a very good week to make that deal.

Given that it's been reported that 18 NFL teams still use the pension system, and the pension systems are still in effect in many companies today, I'm not sure why you'd make such a claim.

Then again, I'm not sure why people think it's great that others get screwed just because they did. I don't see any wisdom in that line of thinking.

 

[ausbacker]

You haven't been paying attention if you really think this. It's been suggested, it's been said, and it's been proven in one case (New Orleans game).

How was it proven? The ref passed the screening test. His team allegiance was subsequently discovered and he was removed from the officiating unit. You can't demonstrate bias and favor a team if you're not officiating a game that involves said team.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Yeah we're addicts, but for me personnally, there are limits.

I have followed the Pats since I was a small boy, hoping against hope that the team that I followed so religiously, and had failed me so consistently, could somehow make it to the top and be the NFL champion.

I was finally rewarded in 2001 and the past decade has been more than I could have hoped for. That said, I have been souring somewhat on the whole NFL experience to the point that if the NFL gave me a good reason, I could walk away and not look back.

I would never be able to muster up any enthusiasm for another team, and it is not the Pats who are making me feel this way; it is the NFL itself, although certainly the overreaction and demonization of the Pats by Goodell and jealous fans of other teams has contributed mightily.

I suspect that the fact that the Pats are still a premiere franchise and look to still be a special team worth watching has held sway to keep me invested, but make no mistake, when the Pats hit hard times again, I will be done with the NFL.

Unfortunately, if the current referee debacle continues I may move in that direction sooner than planned.

LOL Pahleeeeese do you poor tortured soul.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

You haven't been paying attention if you really think this. It's been suggested, it's been said, and it's been proven in one case (New Orleans game).

Do you think regular refs were created in a lab somewhere and raised in a bubble? Most of them are fans, too. Just not naive enough to have left something out there in today's social media. Something that has been and will continue to be the downfall of many an aspiring professional.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I suspect that the fact that the Pats are still a premiere franchise and look to still be a special team worth watching has held sway to keep me invested, but make no mistake, when the Pats hit hard times again, I will be done with the NFL.

Unfortunately, if the current referee debacle continues I may move in that direction sooner than planned.

If that isn't the definition of Fair Weather Fan, I don't know what is.

Not to say that isn't your choice. It's not irrational for someone to decide that their precious personal time is better spent not being emotionally invested in an entity that has no care whatsoever for you.

My take is a bit different. were the NFL to (1) continue this beyond annoying ref chaos beyond the current season (2)or adopt MLB style no-cut contracts (3) or demonstrably show that games are fixed, (4) or the Pats change to a bozo owner as in the past, I'd pull the chain find a better use of my time. So I'm just a different weather fan I guess.

 

[The Gr8est]

If that isn't the definition of Fair Weather Fan, I don't know what is.

Not to say that isn't your choice. It's not irrational for someone to decide that their precious personal time is better spent not being emotionally invested in an entity that has no care whatsoever for you.

My take is a bit different. were the NFL to (1) continue this beyond annoying ref chaos beyond the current season (2)or adopt MLB style no-cut contracts (3) or demonstrably show that games are fixed, (4) or the Pats change to a bozo owner as in the past, I'd pull the chain find a better use of my time. So I'm just a different weather fan I guess.

Well if being a consistent fan of the Pats since around 1962 to the present isn't enough of a dedication to avoid being considered a fair weather fan then I don't what to say in my defense.

I paid my dues over the years and this team should be continuing to provide an enjoyable experience as we watch a team full of very promising young players, established veteran greats, and a HOF HC get to compete and chase excellence and their place in NFL history; but elements not directly tied to the play on the field are seemingly conspiring to short circuit it.

For me, the 2007 season was the start of the downturn. I don't have a problem with what BB did in Spygate; it was drastically overblown, and punished far too severely.

All the Pats did that was year was to pound all comers into submission, but the constant drumbeat of media scorn and negativity made watching the most successful season a team has ever had in the history of the NFL, into a thoroughly unenjoyable experience. Then the bogus charge of taping the Rams' walk through gets leveled two days before the SB along with threatened congressional investigations, and by that point I just wanted the SB and season to be over.

I have compared the Pats attempt at going undefeated, to the scene in Caddyshack where Danny Noonan is putting, and the other caddies are saying "Miss!", and trying to otherwise distract him from making the putt. Rather than being given a chance to reach greatness, the Pats had to play while dealing with outside distractions not of their doing. As if the pressure of what they were attempting to do wasn't enough, the naysayers and obstructionists continued trying to hamstring the Pats right up to the opening kick off.

Remember the commercial right after the SB where there were 1972 Dolphins players celebrating that the new neighbor wouldn't be moving into their neighborhood after all? It didn't get much run time though; maybe even the naysayers thought the gloating was a bit much.

Then the media distortions and controlling of the narrative, combined with the uneven dispensation of justice by Goodell and the league office have been steadily diminishing the enjoyment for me.

A Pats team which should have been admired, has been consistently badmouthed and denegrated by yellow journalism media fueled scorn from opposing fans.

Now we have this officiating fiasco which is furthering dampening my enthusiasm and I'm getting to the point where this form of enjoyment just isn't worth the aggravation.


My point is that I don't like the direction that the NFL is going and when the Pats are again at the bottom working their way back up, I don't see enough of a payoff to follow them on their quest to try and become a top team again. The payoff used to be worth it......

 

[Deus Irae]

How was it proven? The ref passed the screening test. His team allegiance was subsequently discovered and he was removed from the officiating unit. You can't demonstrate bias and favor a team if you're not officiating a game that involves said team.

The league didn't catch it. And that's a proven bias that was caught.

 

[IllegalContact]

the regulars make bad calls, too.......maybe not with the magnitude of error we are seeing now, but the real point is that the game is not as good to watch......to many stoppages

something that I found interesting is that 20 penalties were called over various times amounting to 20 minutes.....at one point 5 penalties were called in a 4 min span at the end of the first quarter, then there were 6 penalties called in a 4 minute span at the end of the 3rd quarter

the penalties appear to come in bunches......am I to believe the play onb the field is that inconsistent, or is it the incapacity of the LFL guy?

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201209230rav.htm

EDIT: here's the seattle green bay game......seems as though the penealties come in bunches there, too

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201209240sea.htm

another edit.....2 prime time games.......both decided in the last second.......both games had a total of 24 penalties........somebody please tell me how these idiots are not impacting the game

 

[Deus Irae]

Do you think regular refs were created in a lab somewhere and raised in a bubble? Most of them are fans, too. Just not naive enough to have left something out there in today's social media. Something that has been and will continue to be the downfall of many an aspiring professional.

I'm not the one who brought up bias, so I have no idea why you chose to direct your post at me. I just pointed out its existence in response to someone claiming there was none.

Also, your argument would have more credibility if these officials weren't obviously the dregs and poorly screened.

 

[Wolfpack]

I'm sorry that your reading comprehension sucks, but I'm not going to bother explaining this further to you.

Now, now.... don't throw a hissy fit just because I'm pointing out how silly your non-boycott is.

Goodell isn't exactly shaking in his shoes when idiots say "I'm boycotting HALF the NFL, but still watching my home team!"

 

[aluminum seats]

Now, now.... don't throw a hissy fit just because I'm pointing out how silly your non-boycott is.

Goodell isn't exactly shaking in his shoes when idiots say "I'm boycotting HALF the NFL, but still watching my home team!"

I don't think it's a question of a "boycott." That's where you're missing the point. It's more a matter of dimininishing interest based on a highly inferior product.

If they stop this nonsense fairly soon, there shouldn't be any lasting damage. If they don't, there will be. And that's not a guess.