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2021 Patriots Season:
Upcoming Opponent:
Next Up: vs Jets
Pick Results: NYJ: 1.8% at NE: 98.2%

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Oct 24th

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Ring 6

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Lots of posts here related to the catch, I'll respond here but really it's to all of them.

First of all my original post wasn't meant to be sour grapes. That play didn't win or lose the game - I thought the Steelers turtled up offensively which hurt them, and of course Brady and Gronk got into a rhythm offensively (and Pitt couldn't make an adjustment). NE made the plays at the end, and Pittsburgh didn't.

Furthermore, I look at ref calls as part of the overall tapestry of good and bad fortune that plays out over time - sometimes the ball will bounce one way, sometimes another, but over a season (or many seasons) things tend to even out. IOW, the refs are part of the game.

So again - my post wasn't meant to suggest Pitt lost because of this ruling. The Pats won a great game, and it's a testament to BB, TB and Gronk's greatness that Pitt basically was out of moves by the end of the game. You guys deserved the win and should be proud...

Now to the rule itself: this is a rule I’ve always disliked. I disliked it on the Dez Bryant non-catch. I disliked it yesterday, but I would have disliked it just as much if it had been the Pats losing a TD on an identical play, or if James’ catch had been ruled a TD in spite of the rule. IMHO this is one of many examples in recent years where the refs and the rulebook have wandered too deeply into actual gameplay, to the detriment of the game.

To be clear: this isn’t the worst rule out there. That distinction goes--hands-down--to the touchback rule on fumbles out of the end zone, which makes my blood boil every time I see it. I also don’t particularly love how PI penalties are levied on jump balls down the field (see: Flacco, Joe). And of course they’ve made an stupefying, incoherent mess of what a catch is generally.

But splitting hairs they way they do with this particular rule (specifically, different standards for runners vs receivers breaking the EZ plane) is not that far down the things I’d love to see changed.

I don’t doubt that they’ve spelled all of these rules out very clearly in the rulebook. But the criticism today isn’t against how clearly they’ve laid out the rule; it’s about net result of the rules themselves, which basically tells fans that something that walks like a duck and talks like a duck, is actually not a duck. If a given rule requires a multi-paragraph explanation from officiating authorities to explain it, maybe it warrants a second look and a course correction. They’ve gone so far down the rabbit hole with some of these things that nominally correct, ‘letter-of-the-law’ rulings often fly in the face of common sense.

To bring this all home - there’s a ton of national chatter today about the game. But it’s less about Gronk’s greatness, or the high level of gameplay, or what a fantastic and dramatic game it was generally….It’s largely about this (non)catch, and this particular rule. This happens far too often (and more to the point, more often than is necessary) in the NFL.

So my comment was more about an ongoing gripe I have with the way the refs seem to be increasingly front and center when it comes to NFL games.

As always, just my $.02...
But the rule IS the same for a runner or receiver breaking the plane.
If they break the plane WITH POSSESSION it’s a TD. If they break the plane BEFORE GAINING (or regaining) possession they must gain possession in the end zone.

2 examples this year that prove this.
Austin sefarian Jenkins was a RUNNER when he had possession, lost it, crossed the goal line, landed out of bounds and then regained possession.
As a receiver he completed the catch, became a runner then fumbled.

James on the other hand never became a runner because he never had possession of the football. Possession is attained (when going to the ground) only by maintain control of the football all the way to the ground.
This is consistent with every rule. You can have control of the ball but have your second foot land out of bounds and you never earned possession.
If James were standing in the end zone when he failed to complete the catch you would have the same result. Falling into the end zone WHILE TRYING TO EARN POSSESSION shouldn’t change the result.

The only way to change the rule would be to say if you get 2 hands on the football in the end zone it’s a TD so you have to reward TDs to every drop not just the ones that happen when going to the ground.
 

YOUGOTMOSSED

In the Starting Line-Up
Haha ‘sorry not sorry’ to disappoint ;)

I’ll continue to maintain that the lion’s share of fans - from any team - are normal, sane, reasonable people. You just don’t see or hear from them, because not everyone has the time or inclination to post Tolstoy-length game analysis on opposing team forums :)

If we were to “Venn Diagram” this out, you’d see massive circles for both Pats Nation and Steelers Nation fans (or any other fan base for that matter)...and the intersection would barely touch. So when we say “fans of team X are the WORST” we’re really saying “fans of team X, that are on the extreme end of the the very small subset of fans that are outgoing enough/obnoxious enough/troll-worthy enough for us to even detect on the Internet, are the WORST”

I lived in MA for several years and still have friends and family there, so I know that Pats fans aren’t actually the raving lunatics they can sometimes appear to be on gamedays or post-game. (And I say that with great affection, as there is obviously equivalent lunacy on Steelers’ boards ;)

I think (?) if you had a similar experience, you’d feel the same way about Steelers fans...

Never been to Pittsburgh but I did live around the corner from a Blondies in NYC for awhile so I've experienced Yinzers at their best and worst. I can understand how a few heartbreaking losses can bring out the worst in some fans (e.g. Red Sox fans prior to 2004 after some tough losses to the Yanks).

Generally the Yinzers are passionate and knowledgeable about the sport. I think, deep down, they know the "cheating" allegations are BS but they cling to it to either make themselves feel better and/or to yank the chain of gloating Patriot fans.
 

RobertWeathers

Author of the Port Huron Statement
PatsFans.com Supporter
I actually hope Shazier doesn’t play again.
I say that because I think that’s what is best for him.
I hope he fully recovers, finds another lucrative career and doesn’t risk having this happen again.

Yea I just want him to pursue his dream but I agree, retiring is the right thing to do.
 

scott99

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Great post ! Always like hearing the thoughts of knowledgeable fans such as yourself. As well as hearing from decent fans as well. You are both. You made an interesting comment about them being down at the goal line at the end. Do me a favor, watch that play again. It was an OBVIOUS pick play that should've been called (Pats get away with this as well from time to time). Should've been a penalty. That being said, what an amazing play, that Schuster kid (watched him at USC a lot, so I like him) sure can run in the open field, pretty amazing.

I'm so happy to see Shazier in good spirits. I hope he lives a long, happy, healthy productive life. Football doesn't matter at this point. Just want to see him get healthy and walking, and living his life.

I think this was the best the Steelers played against the Pats in a long time. Unfortunately, we always seem to play each other with key players out. We were missing 3 key receivers from our SB run last year, maybe our 3 best from last year (Edelman, Hogan and Mitchell), our best LBs (Hightower & Van Noy) and our best run stuffer (Alan Branch). You guys were missing your best receiver and linebacker and DB. Would love to see them play a game where both teams are 100% healthy.
 

scott99

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Great post ! Always like hearing the thoughts of knowledgeable fans such as yourself. As well as hearing from decent fans as well. You are both. You made an interesting comment about them being down at the goal line at the end. Do me a favor, watch that play again. It was an OBVIOUS pick play that should've been called (Pats get away with this as well from time to time). Should've been a penalty. That being said, what an amazing play, that Schuster kid (watched him at USC a lot, so I like him) sure can run in the open field, pretty amazing.

I'm so happy to see Shazier in good spirits. I hope he lives a long, happy, healthy productive life. Football doesn't matter at this point. Just want to see him get healthy and walking, and living his life.

I think this was the best the Steelers played against the Pats in a long time. Unfortunately, we always seem to play each other with key players out. We were missing 3 key receivers from our SB run last year, maybe our 3 best from last year (Edelman, Hogan and Mitchell), our best LBs (Hightower & Van Noy) and our best run stuffer (Alan Branch). You guys were missing your best receiver and linebacker and DB. Would love to see them play a game where both teams are 100% healthy.
 

SEA_Pat

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Great post as always lilloyd, like it when reasonable opposing fans come on the board. I tried to do the same for the Steelers forum last year but they wouldn't approve me.

If I may provide one more perspective on the catch rule...I agree with those who note that the rule has evolved to the current point and how changing it would just open up another big can of worms. But unlike most, I kind of like the rule. This has made the lunge for the pylon or the plane one of the more interesting and entertaining parts of the game. Who doesn't enjoy a Faustian bargain playing out live on TV? This is clearly now known as a "high risk - high reward" type play. That's drama and excitement.

It's not coincidental that the greatest coach the game has seen basically forbids his players from doing this. He's not big on high risk.
 
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