Complaining about the draft: some perspectives

[ATippett56]

We fans hope for a big splash and we are underwhelmed when the Pats pick somebody that all the "experts" have in the 2nd or 3rd round and that no one was thinking about.

Nate Solder was rated the 23rd overall prospect in the 2011 NFL Draft according to NFL Draft Scout.

NFL Draft Scout----Powered By: The Sports Xchange

I don't see where you get that Nate Solder was rated a second or third round draft pick?

 

[patsfanboy]

Drafting an OL is boring as hell, if it was a DE stud like Aldon or Quin, i would've jumping with joy. It is like Christmas when you want a new toy, but they give something else, hopefully Soldier will be good.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Drafting an OL is boring as hell, if it was a DE stud like Aldon or Quin, i would've jumping with joy. It is like Christmas when you want a new toy, but they give something else, hopefully Soldier will be good.

Like I said in another thread....no one in Cleveland is complaining about taking that 'boring' OL in Joe Thomas a few years ago at #3 who just might be their BEST player on that team today.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Drafting an OL is boring as hell, if it was a DE stud like Aldon or Quin, i would've jumping with joy. It is like Christmas when you want a new toy, but they give something else, hopefully Soldier will be good.

Maybe THIS WILL MAKE YOU FEEL BETTER about the Solder pick

If the Pats didn't pick him, he wasn't getting past the Colts at 21.

 

[SoonerPatriot]

Here's one other possible conclusion: BB doesn't believe the pass rush is a problem.

For each of the last 5 years (or longer) a pass rushing OLB is listed as a key need. Really Cunningham is the only relevant player that's been taken during that time.

Given the fact that BB has gone in other directions in every draft since this became a "need" you could argue he doesn't believe it's a problem.

But of course there's always tomorrow night and Saturday...

 

[Bostonian1962]

"Very few understand the value of piling up 2nd round picks".

I understand. Over the last 10 years 75% of 1st round picks became starters. Not All Pro's, simply starters. Only 50% of 2nd round picks became starters. The more you trade down into inferior talent, the less chance you have of "hitting" on a player.

There will be all these supposed "experts" that say 'Belichick is a genius in how he traded for future picks'. They say that every year. They said it this year, but the best 5 Technique DE, and the best RB fall to BB, and he doesn't pull the trigger.

He HAS to trade for future picks for value. Imagine if the 14 and 2 team came out of the first round with Cam Jordon and Mark Ingram. The Patriots would never be that lucky that BOTH of those players would fall to them, at two of their biggest need positions. Finally, BB would really address the DE/OLB position after trading down and ignoring it over the years. WRONG! He takes a converted TE to OL guy number one, and nothing else, because he traded down for value.

The 14 and 2 Patriots got better how after Round 1? That's O.K., BB is smart. Wilkerson or Heyward will be there with pick #33. WRONG. Both are gone, one being taken by the rival Jets. No matter how this is spun, this was not a great first round for the Patriots.

So people are excited about next years first rounder, that will be near the end of the round, and likely traded for value. Sheesh. Brady isn't getting any younger. How about saying NO to a trade Bill? Sometimes the best trades are the ones you DON'T make.

 

[ausbacker]

"Very few understand the value of piling up 2nd round picks".

I understand. Over the last 10 years 75% of 1st round picks became starters. Not All Pro's, simply starters. Only 50% of 2nd round picks became starters. The more you trade down into inferior talent, the less chance you have of "hitting" on a player.

There will be all these supposed "experts" that say 'Belichick is a genius in how he traded for future picks'. They say that every year. They said it this year, but the best 5 Technique DE, and the best RB fall to BB, and he doesn't pull the trigger.

He HAS to trade for future picks for value. Imagine if the 14 and 2 team came out of the first round with Cam Jordon and Mark Ingram. The Patriots would never be that lucky that BOTH of those players would fall to them, at two of their biggest need positions. Finally, BB would really address the DE/OLB position after trading down and ignoring it over the years. WRONG! He takes a converted TE to OL guy number one, and nothing else, because he traded down for value.

The 14 and 2 Patriots got better how after Round 1? That's O.K., BB is smart. Wilkerson or Heyward will be there with pick #33. WRONG. Both are gone, one being taken by the rival Jets. No matter how this is spun, this was not a great first round for the Patriots.

So people are excited about next years first rounder, that will be near the end of the round, and likely traded for value. Sheesh. Brady isn't getting any younger. How about saying NO to a trade Bill? Sometimes the best trades are the ones you DON'T make.

Nice rant, unfortunately for you BB didn't trade 17, he stayed there and took the player the Patriots wanted first. Pick 28, the Patriots next pick in the sequence was then on-traded for great value in this year and next year.

Ty Warren is coming back & Marcus Stroud has been signed. Why people continually overlook this is ridiculous.

 

[Triumph]

Almost everyone expect a trade from 33.

I suspect that many folks are surprised that Belichick had Wilkerson and Heyward rated so low that neither was worth the equivalent of two 2nd rounders, or weren't worth the 28th pick in the draft. The 2012 pick could have been secured tomorrow. So, the issue for me, and most, is not that we traded down. That's fine. The issue is the ratings of Wilkerson and Heyward. As often happens, we posters (and the media and a couple of teams that picked right after us) rate players higher than belichick does. Obviously he has much more info. But, it isn't as if these players weren't immediately snapped up by the jets and the steelers.

Mel Kiper claims Wilkerson is the best pick of the whole draft thus far.

I knew that sounded like BS.

 

[RhodyPatriot]

Thats one of the problems with a board like this and the draft.
Everyone reads and studies and decides who they want to pick, and get all excited that they could be right. Then they forget that they are basing their opinion on about 4% of the information BB has at his disposal, so when they get upset because he had the chance to draft 'their guy' he must be an idiot.

We actually have people posting on this board that think Bill Belichick used the 17th pick in the draft on a guy who is a project impliyng he is a longshot to start in the league. As if BB doesnt have a clue what the 17thy pick should get you.
Another poster said the team got no better today, after picking the 17th best player in the draft.
Its too much emotion and not enough thought.

Plenty of thought. Cam Jordan at #17 Mark Ingram at #28 and the Patriots are a better team. Hey but we're being too emotional by addressing two rather large weaknesses on the team.
But they didn't do that and instead went for a OT (not even close to top rating at that position) who they will convert to a guard, which they could have gotten in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.
Poor job by Belichick yesterday and please don't tell me he's going to continue today by picking another reach with Brooks Reed.

 

[livinginthe past]

Plenty of thought. Cam Jordan at #17 Mark Ingram at #28 and the Patriots are a better team. Hey but we're being too emotional by addressing two rather large weaknesses on the team.
But they didn't do that and instead went for a OT (not even close to top rating at that position) who they will convert to a guard, which they could have gotten in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.
Poor job by Belichick yesterday and please don't tell me he's going to continue today by picking another reach with Brooks Reed.

You don't appear to have any shame at all - amazing.

You have your carbon copy rantings from last years Devin McCourty pick thrown back in your face - yet you keep singing from the same hymn sheet.

Your IQ obviously can't be high enough for you to disseminate the information people are trying to relay to you.

You haven't scouted any of these players, and even if you did you have no proven aptitude for it - let alone any accountability.

You read a bunch of mock drafts and think that this is information that you yourself have somehow learned - what players values are exactly and how they fit within any given scheme are of no interest to you.

Every word you type you just clown yourself further.

Its both sad and amusing.

 

[flasox27]

Same complaints as last year. I remember how poster wer saying we should have taken Oldrick or Kyle Wilson. How did that work out with McCourty. I am amazed that people don't realize that maybe BB knows what he is doing.

 

[dhamz]

This is my favorite day of the year on this board.

Without fail people come on and either love or hate the pick of a player they know little about outside of some youtube clips and some scouting reports written by media members the vast majority if whom are not qualified to write scouting reports.

All anyone on this board can really tell you about Solder is the Pats and other teams liked him as a 1st round pick and he plays on the O line which is a huge long term hole on the roster. The Pats have 4 of their 5 OL starters either already gone (Neal), likely already gone (Light), or likely to be gone in the next 12 months (Mankins, Koppen).

 

[vyrago]

Here's one other possible conclusion: BB doesn't believe the pass rush is a problem.

For each of the last 5 years (or longer) a pass rushing OLB is listed as a key need. Really Cunningham is the only relevant player that's been taken during that time.

Given the fact that BB has gone in other directions in every draft since this became a "need" you could argue he doesn't believe it's a problem.

But of course there's always tomorrow night and Saturday...

Well what does he know??? The experts, this board, the talking heads, my goats and I think the Pats need a top notch pass rusher.
Maybe BB ought to study up a little.

 

[patsfan13]

I don't know squat about these guys, I don't spend hours in a film room studying them.

I do think BB knows more about what he needs to get the Pats a Lombardi (and be in contention every year) than Mel and the draftniks, call me crazy.

The draft is a good opportunity to learn what BB thinks about what the team needs to do to improve.

Neal retired
Kaczur who knows he may never play again due to back issues
Mankins ? most likely gone to the highest bidder
Light 33 and a FA

To recap from 2 years ago 4 of 5 starting OL are gone or may never wear a Pats uni again. Possible the best OL in the draft seems pretty reasonable. Perhaps the Pats draft board doesn't show a big diff between 28 and 54 in terms of value for positions they may target????

We got great value from the pick. If the pick from NO this ear turns into a player with the production of Gronk (a 2nd last year0 I'll be perfectly happy with that.

This may also tell you about how BB views the development and upside of Cunningham and Fletcher......how Brace and Warren (and Wright?) are recovering.........just saying


Can't wait for the second round and at least 1 trade today.

 

[Seneschal2]

BB would love to have Ingram. He would make the team, he would play a big role. But, the improvement he would give to the franchise is less than what BB expects to get from the 56th PLUS the Saints 2012 #1. It really is that simple.

I think it's only fair that I comment on Andy's post. As most here may know, Ingram was not only one of my favorite prospects, but #1 overall on my Pats board. Day one for me was filled with hope and anticipation KNOWING it was possible to select Ingram at 17, 28, 33 -- or somewhere in between.

At 17, I was thrilled with the Solder pick, one down and two slots to go for Ingram. The ride was long from 17 to 28 and when #28 was on the clock, fingers were crossed -- then the trade! My first reaction was two thumbs up for the value received from the Saints. My second reaction was -- we can still get Ingram at 33. Then the Saints made their pick.

Disappointed -- of course. But just then a sudden wave of clarity struck. It was FINALLY revealed at that moment that the Pats did not regard Ingram as highly as I did. Wondering and hoping were all replaced by a strong dose of reality called -- valuation. For it's the "value of the pick" which I've grown to understand (and accept) under Belichick, which undoubtedly reduced my initial moment of sadness. Hanging one's hat on ANY prospect is not very wise, unless of course suffering is your choice of comfort. Moving forward is highly recommended.

Trust in Belichick is optional. Earned it he has, unless of course winning is not your agenda. Scattered throughout the several draft busts and several unproductive players -- gems have been discovered. And in this inexact science known as the draft, desired results can be elusive. At the very least, BB gets an A for effort. As a fan, I can't ask for more...

 

[Triumph]

Maybe people hating the pick are right this time

 

[PATSNUTme]

I'll post this again:

FWIW, Rick Gosselin had Solder ranked as the 13th best player on his top 100. Most other had him in the top 20's.

He was not the player I wanted. But even the most dedicated draftnut has to keep in mind that, BB has forgotten more about selecting players while going tho the bathroom, then we draftnut's have ever known.

 

[Ring 6]

Plenty of thought. Cam Jordan at #17 Mark Ingram at #28 and the Patriots are a better team. Hey but we're being too emotional by addressing two rather large weaknesses on the team.
But they didn't do that and instead went for a OT (not even close to top rating at that position) who they will convert to a guard, which they could have gotten in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.
Poor job by Belichick yesterday and please don't tell me he's going to continue today by picking another reach with Brooks Reed.

Good for us that we have BB who makes good football decisions, even if they conflict with your plan to draft the names you heard the most.

 

[mcgraw_wv]

Solder looks nastier than Light, I liek light, but he lacks the power and nastiness in the run game.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I think it's only fair that I comment on Andy's post. As most here may know, Ingram was not only one of my favorite prospects, but #1 overall on my Pats board. Day one for me was filled with hope and anticipation KNOWING it was possible to select Ingram at 17, 28, 33 -- or somewhere in between.

At 17, I was thrilled with the Solder pick, one down and two slots to go for Ingram. The ride was long from 17 to 28 and when #28 was on the clock, fingers were crossed -- then the trade! My first reaction was two thumbs up for the value received from the Saints. My second reaction was -- we can still get Ingram at 33. Then the Saints made their pick.

Disappointed -- of course. But just then a sudden wave of clarity struck. It was FINALLY revealed at that moment that the Pats did not regard Ingram as highly as I did. Wondering and hoping were all replaced by a strong dose of reality called -- valuation. For it's the "value of the pick" which I've grown to understand (and accept) under Belichick, which undoubtedly reduced my initial moment of sadness. Hanging one's hat on ANY prospect is not very wise, unless of course suffering is your choice of comfort. Moving forward is highly recommended.

Trust in Belichick is optional. Earned it he has, unless of course winning is not your agenda. Scattered throughout the several draft busts and several unproductive players -- gems have been discovered. And in this inexact science known as the draft, desired results can be elusive. At the very least, BB gets an A for effort. As a fan, I can't ask for more...

At Gillette early on during the draft Ivan Fears told the fans that the Pats rated 2 other RBs higher than Ingram FWIW