Change draft strategy?

[Kontradiction]

Rebuilding happens through many avenues, not just drafting.

This is true but the draft is the most important avenue. Especially in a league with a hard cap.

 

[Doctor DDS]

I don't know anyone who called Graham and Watson "duds". Graham was a good receiving and fantastic blocking right end. He put up good #s in a primarily run first, defensive minded team. And in Watson's first 3 yrs w Brady he had 29, 49 36 catches. This doesn't include his rookie yr where he played 1 game. I'll take those #s in a heartbeat today

Daniel Graham was the 19th pick in the draft, played 5 seasons for the Pats and had a total of 120 total catches for 1400 yards. In 11 post season games he had 13 catches for 140 yards. Watson was a decent receiving TE who became a better player after he left NE. In 81 games for the Pats he had 184 total catches. If Sony Michel is a bust as a 1st rounder with the numbers and impact he has had then I am not sure how these 2 would not be as well. (I personally do not think any of the 3 are busts but they were underwhelming for where they were drafted)

 

[jmt57]

Basically draft without Josh McDaniels in the room. Not a coincidence we draft fine except for WR TE since 2012-now.

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Do we know for a fact that McDaniels has that type of influence in the draft war room?

I was under the impression that it is pretty much just Belichick and Caserio, plus maybe Brian Smith doing any talking. I didn't think the coordinators had much if any say with draft decisions.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Do we know for a fact that McDaniels has that type of influence in the draft war room?

I was under the impression that it is pretty much just Belichick and Caserio, plus maybe Brian Smith doing any talking. I didn't think the coordinators had much if any say with draft decisions.

It was in Michael Holley's book and Reiss also wrote about it. McDaniels pushed for both Maroney and Jackson. National scouts didn't want those players. McD's kid brother coached Maroney in Minnesota. Scouts were upset Belichick overruled them. And this was way early when McDaniels was still very young. Likely more influence now. Zero coincidence our drafts sucked from 05-08 and 2012-now. Gronk/Edelman were developed with Bill O'Brien. Branch/Givens/Graham/Watson developed with Charlie Weiss. McD has developed zero WRs and TEs. We can only trade for them bc we have the worst OC at talent development or eval in the league

 

[DropKickFlutie]

The 2006 Draft: Six Years Later

Tom Gower continues an annual FO tradition of looking back at the draft from six years ago. Remember choosing between a spread quarterback from Texas and a dropback passer from USC? Yeah, that didn't work out.

www.footballoutsiders.com

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Do we know for a fact that McDaniels has that type of influence in the draft war room?

I was under the impression that it is pretty much just Belichick and Caserio, plus maybe Brian Smith doing any talking. I didn't think the coordinators had much if any say with draft decisions.

Biggest bust: As revealed in Michael Holley's War Room, the Patriots scouts clearly regret the fact that Ben McDaniels' experience with Maroney in Minnesota was allowed to overrule their concerns.

The 2006 Draft: Six Years Later

Tom Gower continues an annual FO tradition of looking back at the draft from six years ago. Remember choosing between a spread quarterback from Texas and a dropback passer from USC? Yeah, that didn't work out.

www.footballoutsiders.com

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Do we know for a fact that McDaniels has that type of influence in the draft war room?

I was under the impression that it is pretty much just Belichick and Caserio, plus maybe Brian Smith doing any talking. I didn't think the coordinators had much if any say with draft decisions.

More evidence BB screwed up his and his dad's scouting methods by McD:

"When McDaniels and Caserio were tasked with scouting New England's opposing receivers and corners, they took it further, creating a formula for size, speed, ball skills, scheme and assignments. Then they developed a ranking system based on the Patriots' personnel and playbook. Impressed, Belichick ditched his manual for scouting receivers and corners, replacing it with what he'd learned."

IT TAKES A GENIUS

A LOT OF NFL OWNERS LIKE TO PLUCK BRANCHES OFF BILL BELICHICK'S COACHING TREE. IF ONLY HIS SAPLINGS GREW SO MIGHTY.

www.espn.com

 

[jmt57]

It was in Michael Holley's book and Reiss also wrote about it. McDaniels pushed for both Maroney and Jackson. National scouts didn't want those players. McD's kid brother coached Maroney in Minnesota. Scouts were upset Belichick overruled them. And this was way early when McDaniels was still very young. Likely more influence now. Zero coincidence our drafts sucked from 05-08 and 2012-now

Okay, I had forgotten about that - it has been several years since I last read War Room.

In more recent videos, it appears as though it is almost all BB/Caserio the last few years.

 

[jmt57]

More evidence BB screwed up his and his dad's scouting methods by McD:

"When McDaniels and Caserio were tasked with scouting New England's opposing receivers and corners, they took it further, creating a formula for size, speed, ball skills, scheme and assignments. Then they developed a ranking system based on the Patriots' personnel and playbook. Impressed, Belichick ditched his manual for scouting receivers and corners, replacing it with what he'd learned."

IT TAKES A GENIUS

A LOT OF NFL OWNERS LIKE TO PLUCK BRANCHES OFF BILL BELICHICK'S COACHING TREE. IF ONLY HIS SAPLINGS GREW SO MIGHTY.

www.espn.com

Yes, you have posted that link more than once, amongst the several threads that you have started over the last couple of weeks.

Thank you.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Clearly something with the way bb drafts changed about six years ago and the product on the field has deteriorated ever since.

plus his insistence on drafting terrible defensive backs in the second round is infuriating. This drafting of a division 2 kid this past year was proof to me that bb’s mental abilities may be in decline.

 

[Doctor DDS]

Since BB's first year he has drafted 23 players that current rank in the top 32 (1st round grade) of Career Approximate Value in their draft class. CarAV is far from perfect as it probably overweighs starts vs high level performance but it is not a horrible measure of comparison. Team had 2 first round picks stolen by the league plus traded out often so collectively it looks pretty impressive.

2000 - 2006 (Rank in Draft Class)
Brady - 1
Light -5, Seymour - 9
Branch -20
Samuel - 13, Koppen - 15
Wilfork - 6
Mankins- 4
None

2007 - 2013
None
Mayo - 18
Edelman - 8, Vollmer - 9
Gronk - 7. McCourty - 15
Solder - 11, Cannon - 29
Jones - 8, Hightower -14
Collins - 6

2014 - 2018
None
Mason - 15, Brown -17, Flowers - 30
Thuney - 10
None
Michel - 30

While the recent period obviously has much more time to develop it is clear that BB has hit on less difference makers than in prior periods.

 

[Triumph]

This is true but the draft is the most important avenue. Especially in a league with a hard cap.

Precisely.

Veterans join the team, but want big money like AB.

 

[Triumph]

I knew that something was amiss with Sony when BB took another RB 3rd the next draft.

Harris has shown more promise thus far than Harry.

 

[Jlaff]

I can see it now. For the 2021 draft Goodell orders only Pats WR scouts and McDaniels allowed in the draft room due to BB's age putting him into an at-risk category and for social distancing purposes.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Yes, you have posted that link more than once, amongst the several threads that you have started over the last couple of weeks.

Thank you.

So then it makes no sense why you would ask as if you didn't know. McDaniels has clearly heavily influenced terrible offensive draft picks in the past. And we haven't developed any new WR or TE in 8 years since O'Brien left.

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[DropKickFlutie]

Okay, I had forgotten about that - it has been several years since I last read War Room.

In more recent videos, it appears as though it is almost all BB/Caserio the last few years.

I see. No problem. I also don't think it's just McD to be fair. Caserio has underwhelmed the last 5 years. We need to bring back consultants like Reese or Dimitroff or Pioli. It's been a real problem where the cupboard is bare with young talent developed. It certainly doesn't help when your OC doesn't even try to get your rookie TE involved at all.

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[BaconGrundleCandy]

You can’t just say we are gonna neglect drafting certain positions. It doesn’t work that way.

Pats are notorious for having a very small draft board. It would be interesting to know who had been on their boards and who hasn’t. I think what should be done is an internal review on their drafting and why they haven’t picked well at certain positions, how big the board is, etc.... Belichick should have more time on his hands this year as it isn’t likely we make the playoffs. The next few drafts we need to hit it out of the park, and finding our future QB is the biggest key.

In regards to the bolded ...
Almost impossible to know how big their board is. I've heard 50-150 but never anything certain. I'm sure it varies year to year as most teams. Also very hard to know who's on there board. Again tough to get anyone with eyes on it. I started naming patriot-types when I joined and actually had some success. From Keion Crossen, Rivers, Wynn. Keene, Asiasi, Dugger, Bryant, Lewerke, Uche, Onwenu were on it last year.

I would bet a lot of money Reagor and particularly Justin Jefferson were very high on their board. We definitely have a need there and we traded out after both were taken. And both were high on my board along with a few others.


The next bolded part is key. I bet Bill dives into college this off-season. He's always visiting schools and coaches. Keeping up. This team definitely needs a jumpstart and I wonder how much he'll draw from college considering the effect it's had on the league. Have to think he's as hungry as ever.

 

[Boomer B]

In regards to the bolded ...
Almost impossible to know how big their board is. I've heard 50-150 but never anything certain. I'm sure it varies year to year as most teams. Also very hard to know who's on there board. Again tough to get anyone with eyes on it. I started naming patriot-types when I joined and actually had some success. From Keion Crossen, Rivers, Wynn. Keene, Asiasi, Dugger, Bryant, Lewerke, Uche, Onwenu were on it last year.

I would bet a lot of money Reagor and particularly Justin Jefferson were very high on their board. We definitely have a need there and we traded out after both were taken. And both were high on my board along with a few others.
View attachment 29193

The next bolded part is key. I bet Bill dives into college this off-season. He's always visiting schools and coaches. Keeping up. This team definitely needs a jumpstart and I wonder how much he'll draw from college considering the effect it's had on the league. Have to think he's as hungry as ever.

The work you do in the draft thread is awesome and much appreciated. I actually use your list to look at highlights of the players and gain some insight on the players in the draft. Keep up the great work.

 

[Mack Herron]

 

[NormZauchin]

When Bill had a top 10 choice, he did fine - Seymour and Mayo. However, both were on defense, where Bill seems to be more effective. The question is whether he can make a good to great selection on offense if the Patriots come up with a top ten pick.