Celtics 2023 - 2024 Discussion

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Let’s be honest: Celtics are (a) supremely talented and (b) very lucky this postseason. I can’t say how much they’ve matured in terms of leadership and closing out games although the Indiana series made me hopeful. I think the talent gap is so great though, that they're going to win a championship while avoiding any real dogfight.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Would the 2021-22 or 2022-23 Celtics been able to beat the Heat (minus Butler), Cavs (minus Mitchell) and Pacers (minus Haliburton) and have an advantage against Dallas?

Absolutely, though they wouldn’t be 13-2 and I think Mavs would be closer to a coin flip.

So this is nothing against this team. They are the best team in basketball. It’s just weird how it’s all playing out like this.

 

[Kdo5]

Would the 2021-22 or 2022-23 Celtics been able to beat the Heat (minus Butler), Cavs (minus Mitchell) and Pacers (minus Haliburton) and have an advantage against Dallas?

Absolutely, though they wouldn’t be 13-2 and I think Mavs would be closer to a coin flip.

So this is nothing against this team. They are the best team in basketball. It’s just weird how it’s all playing out like this.

22-23 Celtics would’ve choked a few games away against the Pacers IMO.

 

[Kdo5]

I'm seeing an impressive level of maturity from the players and Mazulla that just wasn't there last year. Some of that may be Holliday and Porzingas but I'd hazard a guess more of it is simply coming of age and experience.

A few things. The addition of Holiday and KP means that JT/JB have become more confident in their teammates and more willing to play team basketball consistently. That has led to smarter, selfless play. That’s why both have improved dramatically as facilitators.

While I really like Marcus Smart it was important for him to be traded away. The maturity level wasn’t there with him. He was often reckless and out of control on the court. His tendencies were fuel to the iso-ball style of play that hurt us. And he did have a mouth and confrontational attitude about things even if he perceived it as “being a leader”.

Jrue has been so important in calming things down and playing under control. White too.

 

[RobertWeathers]

22-23 Celtics would’ve choked a few games away against the Pacers IMO.

No question. Even though I loved him removing Marcus Smart from the team was addition by subtraction. While KP and Holiday were great veteran additions, moving Smart allowed the Jays to grow into more confident players.

Need to close the deal still but you've gotta appreciate how this team has become mentally tougher.

 

[RobertWeathers]

A few things. The addition of Holiday and KP means that JT/JB have become more confident in their teammates and more willing to play team basketball consistently. That has led to smarter, selfless play. That’s why both have improved dramatically as facilitators.

While I really like Marcus Smart it was important for him to be traded away. The maturity level wasn’t there with him. He was often reckless and out of control on the court. His tendencies were fuel to the iso-ball style of play that hurt us. And he did have a mouth and confrontational attitude about things even if he perceived it as “being a leader”.

Jrue has been so important in calming things down and playing under control. White too.

Ha I said the exact same thing in my response to you.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Would the 2021-22 or 2022-23 Celtics been able to beat the Heat (minus Butler), Cavs (minus Mitchell) and Pacers (minus Haliburton) and have an advantage against Dallas?

Absolutely, though they wouldn’t be 13-2 and I think Mavs would be closer to a coin flip.

So this is nothing against this team. They are the best team in basketball. It’s just weird how it’s all playing out like this.

Yes but they would have been tougher series as those teams were not a good, confident nor functionally proficient as this current team.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Let’s be honest: Celtics are (a) supremely talented and (b) very lucky this postseason. I can’t say how much they’ve matured in terms of leadership and closing out games although the Indiana series made me hopeful. I think the talent gap is so great though, that they're going to win a championship while avoiding any real dogfight.

Who cares if they don't have a dogfight? Is that important?

The 1991 Bulls cruised to a title. So did a lot of past champions.

 

[aluminum seats]

Let’s be honest: Celtics are (a) supremely talented and (b) very lucky this postseason. I can’t say how much they’ve matured in terms of leadership and closing out games although the Indiana series made me hopeful. I think the talent gap is so great though, that they're going to win a championship while avoiding any real dogfight.

It’s a fair point. But I think Holiday and Porzingis have made a difference for sure. Brown has evolved, even from the beginning of the season, and Tatum seems much much less focused on his numbers than he had in the past. I think if he scored 50 in a game this series, you wouldn’t see him making a big deal about hitting that number.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Tatum seems much much less focused on his numbers than he had in the past.

I cannot emphasize enough how much he has grown in this area.

Nothing pissed me off more than his behavior during G7 of the semis vs Philly last year. The "50" sign with his fingers while the game was still in the balance......jesus. I was close to giving up on his as a pot'l all-time Celtic great let alone someone I wanted on this team.

...but hes changed that. Just look at this playoff run. Hes 25/10/6/1/1 . The only beef I have with him is his shot efficiency/selection but hes doing so much else to help the team win. It's clear he understands what is required of him to win games. Sacrificing. Facilitating. Get his teammates involved. Dirty work type-stuff. Love it.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I think that tactically the Mavs can do better defensively as witnessed during their run in the third quarter. However the flaw that can’t be fixed is that Luka and Kyrie are subpar defenders and the Celtics can continue to target them.

Remember in the run up to the Finals everyone was saying that Kyrie and Luka were greatly improved as defenders?? Hahahahahahahahahaah. I guess they are greatly improved compared to barn doors.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Remember in the run up to the Finals everyone was saying that Kyrie and Luka were greatly improved as defenders?? Hahahahahahahahahaah. I guess they are greatly improved compared to barn doors.

Kyrie has always been an average on the ball defender. His height and focus on offense always has held him back.

Flopcic is a latter-day Larry Bird. Energy is spent on offense but is wery court-aware on D. OK near the paint. Quick hands. Gets in passing lanes but like most euros is sub-standard on the ball defender on the perimeter.

 

[RobertWeathers]

40 years ago today was a day off between G4/5 Celtics/Lakers.

The greatest NBA Finals of all-time.

 

[rochrist]

Who cares if they don't have a dogfight? Is that important?

The 1991 Bulls cruised to a title. So did a lot of past champions.

There's a reason they finished 7 games ahead of last year's champion and 14 games ahead of the Mavs.

 

[RobertWeathers]

There's a reason they finished 7 games ahead of last year's champion and 14 games ahead of the Mavs.

Yep

 

[Captain Cliche]

Call me a cynic, but if Boston wins game 2, expect the refs to gift Dallas game 3.

 

[Kdo5]

Call me a cynic, but if Boston wins game 2, expect the refs to gift Dallas game 3.

I want to see Game 2 play out but if it’s anything like Game 1 Tony Brothers and Scott Foster will have a difficult time pulling it off regardless.

Celtics need to go ice cold shooting and Dallas needs to get red hot in order for them to win, which could happen but it isn’t happening 4 out of 6 games.

Fast paced, three point shooting offenses are an absolute nightmare matchup for Dallas. It’s not just the Celtics. Luka and Kyrie scored a ton of points in both games against the Pacers and they still got absolutely smoked.

 

[UrbanCowboy]

I'm seeing an impressive level of maturity from the players and Mazulla that just wasn't there last year. Some of that may be Holliday and Porzingas but I'd hazard a guess more of it is simply coming of age and experience.

Holiday definitely. I'd say Jalen Brown has changed/matured the most. I'll admit I thought it was wrong to give him the max contract. I thought he'd just sorta take the money and chill. But he's really become a more complete player and it was a good thing to keep him.

 

[jimnance]

Remember in the run up to the Finals everyone was saying that Kyrie and Luka were greatly improved as defenders?? Hahahahahahahahahaah. I guess they are greatly improved compared to barn doors.

Yeah Luka and Kyrie may have ?slightly improved as defenders., mostly Luka.
But neither one is responsible for the Mavs greatly improved D. And neither will ever be mistaken fir a defensive stopper.
Jones is the main guy with Lively,Gafford and Washington all contributing.
But the C's defense is a whole 'nother level

 

[1960Pats]

Let’s be honest: Celtics are (a) supremely talented and (b) very lucky this postseason. I can’t say how much they’ve matured in terms of leadership and closing out games although the Indiana series made me hopeful. I think the talent gap is so great though, that they're going to win a championship while avoiding any real dogfight.

I don't think that losing their starting center for most of the playoffs was a lucky break for the Celts. KP's a difference maker on both ends of the court.