Celtics 2023 - 2024 Discussion

[aluminum seats]

KP out tomorrow for sure, if the Celtics win he'll have 10 more days

 

[Keep Up With The Joneses]

The game continues to slow down for him.

100% agree. This play was a micro-slice of the coming of age for Tatum. In the past he would have pulled up for a quick 3 with a hand in his face or forced a bad shot and complained about contact.

That pass was elite, but the decision-making and trust excites me even more.

 

[borisman]

Dallas doesn't match up well with Boston. The Celtics can throw multiple defenders at Luka and Kyrie and hopefully, limit their influence. On the other hand, the Mavs don't have good defensive match ups for the Jays.

It goes without saying that we need KP fit and firing. Being able to bring him or Horford off the bench will be a massive differentiator.

I don’t know about that. Doncic and Kyrie are a nightmare to defend and they look healthy. They both shoot the 3 better than any Celtic. This league isn’t a defense league anymore. It’s not going to be a pushover series. I hate Dallas, Kryrie and Cuban so I would love a sweep.

 

[Kdo5]

Looks like it will be Celtics vs Mavs NBA finals. Wow

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Looks like it will be Celtics vs Mavs NBA finals. Wow

Celtics gonna handle them. Mavs kryptonite is Holiday and White on defense.

 

[Brewskies]

Number 18 won't hang this season.

 

[aluminum seats]

Number 18 won't hang this season.

I think it will.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Number 18 won't hang this season.

Mavs are literally not in the top 8 teams I didn’t want to face! Of course any team going into the Finals isn’t going to be a pushover, but the Mavs momentum isn’t going to last. Momentum almost never actually lasts through a new series and opponent.

I’ll gladly take this. Better than a Butler led Miami Heat team that shot like 99.87% on 3s in the closing minutes the last four years, or the Dynasty Warriors. And also significantly better than this year’s Denver, OKC, Minnesota, LA Clippers, or Milwaukee.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I don’t know about that. Doncic and Kyrie are a nightmare to defend and they look healthy.

Not really. They’re good, but they’re a nightmare to defend for a team with five man defense specialists, who struggle with zone snd help-side, and who have 2-3 bigs that can’t help to contain Luka outside the paint.

They both shoot the 3 better than any Celtic.

Irving 41%, Luka 38%.
Holiday 43%, White 40%.

Edge: Celtics

This league isn’t a defense league anymore. It’s not going to be a pushover series.

Defense will matter a lot here. Luka won’t be able to dribble around like a Globetrotter all game.

I hate Dallas, Kryrie and Cuban so I would love a sweep.

Me too.

 

[borisman]

Not really. They’re good, but they’re a nightmare to defend for a team with five man defense specialists, who struggle with zone snd help-side, and who have 2-3 bigs that can’t help to contain Luka outside the paint.

Irving 41%, Luka 38%.
Holiday 43%, White 40%.

Edge: Celtics

Defense will matter a lot here. Luka won’t be able to dribble around like a Globetrotter all game.

Me too.

Not to not pick each sentence but you’re not seriously comparing Jrue & White to Doncic and Irving as 3-point equals or better?
One due shoots 7 for 18 per game.
Other duo shoots 5 for 13.
One duo shoots wide open threes. The other shoots with defenders geared to stop them.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Not to not pick each sentence but you’re not seriously comparing Jrue & White to Doncic and Irving as 3-point equals or better?
One due shoots 7 for 18 per game.
Other duo shoots 5 for 13.
One duo shoots wide open threes. The other shoots with defenders geared to stop them.

True but clearly the idea the Celtics have no one who can shoot like Doncic / Irving is not accurate. We can probably find advanced stats that smooth this out with shot difficulty / contested 3s and my guess is Doncic / Irving have edge but not a big one.

Holiday and White are both >= 40%. That’s outstanding

In addition, the Celtics offense does open up these two for more open looks, which is good for us regardless of whether it’s inflating stats.

 

[ausbacker]

Not to not pick each sentence but you’re not seriously comparing Jrue & White to Doncic and Irving as 3-point equals or better?
One due shoots 7 for 18 per game.
Other duo shoots 5 for 13.
One duo shoots wide open threes. The other shoots with defenders geared to stop them.

So, your issue is with the style of how the points are scored rather than the points being scored. Got it.

Boston is better offensively and defensively than Dallas. The Celtics have beaten the Mavs pretty handily in their last four match ups, one with their updated squads.

Once again, if Boston doesn't beat themselves, they should win it all. Unfortunately, reason doesn't hang banners in forums.

 

[1960Pats]

Is there a bigger crybaby in the NBA than Doncic? If there is I haven't see him.

And what about the constant stiff arms to the defenders chest to give himself space?

If the refs continue to swallow their whistles that may level off the talent difference the C's have.

I'm concerned.

 

[Keep Up With The Joneses]

It certainly looks like the Finals matchups are coming together, but I'm not ready to look past the Pacers yet, and I hope the Celtics aren't either.

They lost 2 games they could have easily won. They exposed the Celtics in the paint. They have nothing to lose as a 6 seed. They will NOT want to be swept on their home floor.

Depending on their mindset, I feel like tonight is going to either be the Celtics win in blowout fashion or the Pacers winning.

Of course we never know with the WCF either, but Minnesota just looks beaten. I don't think they will show up in Game 4, and will go quietly. They won their championship by beating Denver.

 

[bresna]

Is there a bigger crybaby in the NBA than Doncic? If there is I haven't see him.

And what about the constant stiff arms to the defenders chest to give himself space?

If the refs continue to swallow their whistles that may level off the talent difference the C's have.

I'm concerned.

Have you been watching Tatum this year at all? He whines quite a bit. That said, he has every reason to whine as the refs seem to allow a lot of contact on drives to the hoop.

And if you're going to complain about Doncic's stiff arms, look at Tatum's and Brown's drives to the hoop. Brown does it a lot. It seems to be the way to drive to the hoop with these relaxed rules on contact for drives to the hoop. The refs are letting it go on both sides.

 

[1960Pats]

Have you been watching Tatum this year at all? He whines quite a bit. That said, he has every reason to whine as the refs seem to allow a lot of contact on drives to the hoop.

And if you're going to complain about Doncic's stiff arms, look at Tatum's and Brown's drives to the hoop. Brown does it a lot. It seems to be the way to drive to the hoop with these relaxed rules on contact for drives to the hoop. The refs are letting it go on both sides.

A lot of NBA players squawk, including Tatum, but none of them are in Doncic's category.

As for the stiff arms, Doncic takes them a step further by extending his hand out into the defenders chest and pushing off. I don't see that with other players, including Tatum and Brown. They mostly use their forearms.

 

[maust]

Have you been watching Tatum this year at all? He whines quite a bit. That said, he has every reason to whine as the refs seem to allow a lot of contact on drives to the hoop.

And if you're going to complain about Doncic's stiff arms, look at Tatum's and Brown's drives to the hoop. Brown does it a lot. It seems to be the way to drive to the hoop with these relaxed rules on contact for drives to the hoop. The refs are letting it go on both sides.

It's only whining when the other guy does it, my guy always has a legit *****. My team is fouled on every play. Not to mention the officials obviously have it in for my guys. Likewise, my guy is never dirty. That clown on the other team doing the same thing is the one getting away with murder.

 

[borisman]

True but clearly the idea the Celtics have no one who can shoot like Doncic / Irving is not accurate. We can probably find advanced stats that smooth this out with shot difficulty / contested 3s and my guess is Doncic / Irving have edge but not a big one.

Holiday and White are both >= 40%. That’s outstanding

In addition, the Celtics offense does open up these two for more open looks, which is good for us regardless of whether it’s inflating stats.

Don't twist my words. I said those two are a nightmare to defend and they both shoot the three better (than our two best players), even though D. White puts up 1 more 3's than Brown because he has more open looks and Brown's game is more geared toward attacking and mid-range.
Now, the C's live and die by the three so I'd prefer if Tatum and Brown were a bit better at shooting from deep. They shoot around 36.5% so yeah, Doncic and Irving shoot better.
As far as metrics go the C's have no.1 offensive and no.2 defensive ratings but they need Porzingis back to put that much more pressure on Dallas to outperform in the finals. Without him I think it goes seven games. And anything can happen then.

Edit: Also, this Pacers series could easily be 1-2 right now so it's not like the C's are dominating them. Let's slow our roll on "we're way better than anyone". We're better but we can't discount anyone in the finals.

 

[borisman]

So, your issue is with the style of how the points are scored rather than the points being scored. Got it.

Boston is better offensively and defensively than Dallas. The Celtics have beaten the Mavs pretty handily in their last four match ups, one with their updated squads.

Once again, if Boston doesn't beat themselves, they should win it all. Unfortunately, reason doesn't hang banners in forums.

When it comes who are the better shooters, yes. I can see how nasty Doncic and Irving can be. So thinking we will smoke them in the finals is wishful thinking. We need Porzingis back or else this will be a dog fight.

 

[Kdo5]

Number 18 won't hang this season.

What? Lol. I’ll grant you that the Mavs will likely put up a good fight and maybe even win but this is wildly pessimistic when the Celtics are the better team.