Celtics 2023 - 2024 Discussion

[Jim Beankie]

Hilarious. I looked at the box score, and they were up by 15 with 6min left and thought to myself, just so long as they don't jack up 3s all the time the rest of the way they'll be good... Sigh.

 

[aluminum seats]

I have to think other teams love how predictable the Celtics are in this situation.

Seriously. On the plus side, if they keep doing this once they hit the playoffs if they decide to switch it up and have something different actually happen think how successful they'll be with the element of surprise

 

[jimnance]

Since I only saw the final 2 minutes last night, I didn't know they blew a 22 pt 4th quarter lead til just now.
That last Tatum possession was a thing of horror.
To Mazulla's credit, he tried to call a timeout when Tatum had the ball but the refs didn't see him. He had to be thinking the same thing we all were.
Maybe next time he'll call it right away and draw up a play so there's no question about what they do- get the ball out of Tatums hands.
White had just made a great play with KP on previous possession.
I've been saying this for a long time, so have a lot of folks, in crunchtime give the ball to White or Jrue, let them initiate the offense. Both will make the right read leading to a good shot by somebody.
That could be Tatum who will surely get a better look than he does on his own. Or Brown. Or KP. Or anybody.
Tatum is a great player. No question.
He's the best player on the C's.
No question. But he's ?not the most capable Celtic at making the right play
in crucial situations.
Hes not MJ, not Larry Bird, not Magic,not Kobe. Those players could dictate to the coach " give me the damn ball" because they earned that right over and over again. By making a game- winning play. And it wasnt always them taking the shot. Bird and Magic were always great playmakers. MJ learned to be when he started trusting teammates. Then they won championships.
Tatum hasn't won anything. And he's proven time and again he's not the guy to initiate the offense in crunchtime.
Point guards exist for a reason. That's what they're good at. Tatum needs to follow what Brown has been doing and play to his strengths.
Mazzula needs to get that message across to him.

 

[bresna]

Looks like Tatum is 1 for 7 in these last second fade away shots. That really sucks.

Breaking down Celtics' last-second shots reveals one clear issue

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

From ESPN

 

[jimnance]

From ESPN

Can't give you a "like" on this cuz I don't like it. Not one bit.
It's the one major flaw in his game.
And it's easily correctible .. ..
...as in ditch the f'n cape, Jayson, you
aint Superman. You have several teammates who are better than you at initiating the offense in crunchtime. Guess what? They'll even get you better shots than you can get yourself!
Then you can be a hero and get a makeable game winning shot! Or get a game winning assist!
Then when you keep doing this in crunchtime, especially in the playoffs, you can be in the MVP conversation.
Cuz you ain't right now. But you are a damn good player. You can be better.
We all want #18. But we are Celtics fans. We've seen the best do it.
Russell. Havlicek. Bird. Pierce.
KG. We know what clutch greatness looks like. You ain't there yet,buddy.
But you can be.

 

[aluminum seats]

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Peak Jokic > Peak LeFraud

 

[Kdo5]

Missed a good amount of the game but seems like Jaylen tried to carry the team on his back and the other guys (JT, DWhite, Jrue) have let out a wet fart based on the stat line and shooting. That’s not going to cut it against one of the top teams in the West.

These guys would see a second round exit without Brown on the team.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Missed a good amount of the game but seems like Jaylen tried to carry the team on his back and the other guys (JT, DWhite, Jrue) have let out a wet fart based on the stat line and shooting. That’s not going to cut it against one of the top teams in the West.

He was a black hole.

 

[Kdo5]

He was a black hole.

42 points on 58% shooting? I thought you liked the numbers?

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

42 points on 58% shooting? I thought you liked stats?

2-7 on threes
14-22 on twos
7-14 on free throws

He must have opted out on twenty open passes for better teammate shots en route to his “big game.” There’a a reason their win pct is correlated with him shooting less. But I’ll give him credit, he played hard. Tatum had his classic PTSD shell shocked face against a tough opponent.

 

[Kdo5]

2-7 on threes
14-22 on twos
7-14 on free throws

He must have opted out on twenty open passes for better teammate shots en route to his “big game.” There’a a reason their win pct is correlated with him shooting less. But I’ll give him credit, he played hard. Tatum had his classic PTSD shell shocked face against a tough opponent.

58% from the field. Stats don’t lie on that.

The free throws are bad but we get embarrassed tonight without without his contributions.

Tatum has been putrid lately. Looks like White was on a milk carton as well. Gotta be better than that against the best the NBA has to offer.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

58% from the field. Stats don’t lie on that.

The free throws are bad but we get embarrassed without without his contributions.

Tatum has been putrid lately.

That missed corner 3 is why he remains outside the very best players. He has to make that. But worse: we all knew he missed before he let it go. That’s the issue with him. He misses it every time in this type of game and situation.

Since you missed the game: the team just played like ass most of the time. Sloppy passing was the worst. Nuggets just contested every pass and played tough man to man defense. Tatum especially threw so many lazy lobs that got stolen. Reminiscent of the Heat playoff stuff. Bad three point and free throw shooting too but they still could have overcome that if they’d played solid fundamentals and moved the ball.

Denver probably beats them in a series. They’re just tougher and scrappier, and their leadership is stronger with Jokic and Murray.

That was a ****ing awesome dunk by Aaron Gordon at the end. Holy ****.

 

[Kdo5]

That missed corner 3 is why he remains outside the very best players. He has to make that. But worse: we all knew he missed before he let it go. That’s the issue with him. He misses it every time in this type of game and situation.

Since you missed the game: the team just played like ass most of the time. Sloppy passing was the worst. Nuggets just contested every pass and played tough man to man defense. Tatum especially threw so many lazy lobs that got stolen. Reminiscent of the Heat playoff stuff. Bad three point and free throw shooting too but they still could have overcome that if they’d played solid fundamentals and moved the ball.

Denver probably beats them in a series. They’re just tougher and scrappier, and their leadership is stronger with Jokic and Murray.

That was a ****ing awesome dunk by Aaron Gordon at the end. Holy ****.

This team just has a tendency to crack under pressure. Not always but too often to win against a group like Denver.

I absolutely love Tatum but he’s missing a consistent clutch factor from his game. Sometimes he gets it (G6 against the Sixers) but more often than not he doesn’t come through. And he gets a lot of opportunities.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

This team just has a tendency to crack under pressure. Not always but too often to win against a group like Denver.

I absolutely love Tatum but he’s missing a consistent clutch factor from his game. Sometimes he gets it (G6 against the Sixers) but more often than not he doesn’t come through. And he gets a lot of opportunities.

The game was out if their control as soon as the offense became the Jaylen Brown show. I don’t put the entire blame on him because everyone else seemed passive or cold shooting, but the fact is this is probably their biggest regular season game of the year and they revert to a complete breakdown of their normal offensive system. Whether it’s the coach, Brown, Tatum, or whoever, it’s just a consistent theme of the Tatum-Brown era. White and Holiday had a combined 12 field goal attempts with 5:00 remaining in the game. 12. And they each had played 30+ minutes.

 

[Kdo5]

The game was out if their control as soon as the offense became the Jaylen Brown show. I don’t put the entire blame on him because everyone else seemed passive or cold shooting, but the fact is this is probably their biggest regular season game of the year and they revert to a complete breakdown of their normal offensive system. Whether it’s the coach, Brown, Tatum, or whoever, it’s just a consistent theme of the Tatum-Brown era. White and Holiday had a combined 12 field goal attempts with 5:00 remaining in the game. 12. And they each had played 30+ minutes.

Brown has not been a black hole this season. His points are down and he has been passing a distributing a lot more than previously. Evidently tonight he took the onus on himself since everyone else was, as you mentioned, passive. Can’t blame him for doing so, especially if he was actually shooting very good from the field.

This season when he isn’t having a good shooting night he holds off on taking threes. He has been way more selective about it.

Tatum’s game hasn’t adjusted at all in that regard. If you’re looking for a consistent black hole on offense it’s right there. When he’s on it’s a thing of beauty but when it’s not it’s kind of disastrous for us.

 

[aluminum seats]

The positive takeaway of the last couple of games is that there's little value in rolling easily to a great regular season if you're just gonna fall on your face at the end. So let's have it out now, all the bad stuff

The negative is nothing has happened that has changed my mind that this team can roll to 30 point victories but won't be able to figure it out in the close ones. The way they're playing now will likely get them to the finals, but as we've seen it won't beat Denver. Now if another team takes out Denver, a less experienced team like Minnesota, they might get it done anyway but not feeling real confident just now

 

[1960Pats]

They’re 10+ point favorites in most games. They play a lot of games. They’re going to lose some, and it will often be because they took their foot off the gas. That’s just basketball.

I have concerns about their player leadership in crunch time. Basically it’s this: White, Holiday, and Porzingis don’t fold under pressure and constantly make game winning plays. Tatum does fold under pressure and constantly makes game losing decisions. I’d like to see Mazzula prioritize winning over burnishing Tatum’s alpha dog reputation.

This isn’t normal. Watch other games. Other teams don’t iso their star player on every final possession. Mazzula is starting to rack up losses where wrongly he didn’t call timeout to get them settled and draw up a play/philosophy. Seen this too many times including last year’s playoffs. Inexcusable at this point with a historically great and varied offense like this.

As I mentioned earlier somewhere, giving Mazzula the HC job here is like buying a brand new luxury car and giving the keys to your friend's kid who just got his driver's license. As great as their record is, it's very frustrating to watch them piss away so many games and it will be much worse if they blow another shot at title #18 in the playoffs.

 

[1960Pats]

Brown has not been a black hole this season. His points are down and he has been passing a distributing a lot more than previously. Evidently tonight he took the onus on himself since everyone else was, as you mentioned, passive. Can’t blame him for doing so, especially if he was actually shooting very good from the field.

This season when he isn’t having a good shooting night he holds off on taking threes. He has been way more selective about it.

Tatum’s game hasn’t adjusted at all in that regard. If you’re looking for a consistent black hole on offense it’s right there. When he’s on it’s a thing of beauty but when it’s not it’s kind of disastrous for us.

The thing that scares me about Brown is his poor free throw shooting, or foul shooting in his case. That can bite a team in the ass in crunch time.