Can Somebody Please Break Down our Secondary Breakdowns?

[pencilneckgeek]

Ok, I know we can't know who was at fault on every play, because we don't have the defensive calls, but I still think a little analysis would prove worthwhile and interesting to those of us with a more modest understanding of what's going on.

Field Yates took a stab at this on the ESPN Boston blog, but for me, it raises as many questions as it answers:

Brady was picked off on a dropped pass by Sudfeld. EJ Manuel found Woods for a score two plays later. On the pass, it looked as though the Patriots were in Cover 6, meaning they were playing Cover 2 on one side of the field and Cover 4 on the other. It appeared as though safety Steve Gregory should have had over-the-top coverage on the play (he was aligned on the Cover 2 side), but he was too heavily influenced by a seam route from tight end Scott Chandler. The sign that the coverage was likely Cover 2 was linebacker Dont'a Hightower dropping into the middle of the field and trailing Chandler up the seam and cornerback Aqib Talib occupying the flat. Always tough to know for sure on these, but Gregory, who gestured in what looked like confusion before the snap, may have been out of place.

The TV audience view:
Buffalo Bills quarterback EJ Manuel 18-yard touchdown pass to Robert Woods - NFL Videos

And an end zone view, as posted by one of our own...

I'm not sure if I fully buy Field's analysis of this one. Certainly, if it is Cover 2 on Talib's side, Gregory should be over there helping. A primary point of Cover 6 is to limit the responsibilities for the Cover 2 side safety, and McCourty would be responsible for helping Hightower with teh TE. That would be on Gregory. However, given that that's the strong side with 3 receivers to 2 on the other side, shouldn't that be the Quarters side of the field, in which case the corner (Arrington or Talib, in this case) would be responsible for carrying his man deep? (Or it's a straight Cover 4, which is essentially the same for our purposes.) I'm pretty confident they didn't draw it up like that.

It looks to my under-informed eye that Talib must have blown that coverage. I know things get more complicated in the pro game, particularly with a bunch set like that, so maybe I'm reading it wrong. Unlike Field, I don't have a resume where Scott Pioli signed my paychecks, but I'd like to see if someone with more experience can shed some light on this, so we all might understand better what's going on in the future (rather than reflexively blaming the guy who made the previous mistake, for example).


The second one seems much more straightforward. From ESPNBoston again:

2. Playtime: 11:16, 3rd Quarter. Pinpointing where the Patriots appeared to break down on EJ Manuel's touchdown throw to Steve Johnson. The Bills came with an empty set with two receivers to the defense's right. The Patriots had man coverage across the board with Devin McCourty as the single high safety, shaded to the right. Kyle Arrington had outside leverage, allowing Johnson to press inside on his stem, presumably with the belief that McCourty would provide help over the top. By the time McCourty recognized the route it was too late, as Manuel had released the football, which faded outside and beyond the radius McCourty could get to after a late break. McCourty has been very good at preventing over-the-top throws since his transition to safety, but it looks like he was a step behind on this score.

WK 1 Can't-Miss Play: Buffalo Bills quarterback EJ Manuel 18-yard touchdown pass to Stevie Johnson - NFL Videos

Looks like McCourtey simply got sucked-up by the number of routes being run across the middle near the 1st down marker and couldn't get on stride with Johnson. Seems like a pretty basic mistake and not one that I expect him to repeat.

 

[Ring 6]

Typically any pass that is caught people blame the free safety for not getting there. The fact is that NFL pass plays are run with combination routes, and there are always at least 2 choices for a free safety to make. The QB often will read that FS and throw to the other receiver.
To expect a FS to guess which receiver the ball will go to 100% of the time is ridiculous.
Arguably leaving the outside player alone on a short field and staying inside is a smart move more often than not.
They were beaten by a good receiver and good throw. The only way a FS impacts that play is by guessing, which we do not want, or jarring the ball out after the catch.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Typically any pass that is caught people blame the free safety for not getting there. The fact is that NFL pass plays are run with combination routes, and there are always at least 2 choices for a free safety to make. The QB often will read that FS and throw to the other receiver.
To expect a FS to guess which receiver the ball will go to 100% of the time is ridiculous.
Arguably leaving the outside player alone on a short field and staying inside is a smart move more often than not.
They were beaten by a good receiver and good throw. The only way a FS impacts that play is by guessing, which we do not want, or jarring the ball out after the catch.

The first play is totally Gregory's responsibility in getting over the top of that. McCourty is responsible for getting on top of the TE that Hightower was trailing and you can see him breaking towards the middle of the field.

 

[Gronkandez]

I think Talib was at fault on the first. I base this on nothing other than what my eyes are telling me. There was no one else in that area for him to cover and for the safety to get over in time he would have had to sprint 40 yards as soon as the ball was snapped. I realize in a zone defense you kind of just cover an area but I still don't think you can let a guy run free in the end zone like that.

 

[Ring 6]

The first play is totally Gregory's responsibility in getting over the top of that.

Of course since you don't know what the play call is, you have no idea if that is true. Either Talib was in the wrong coverage or Gregory was. We do not know.

McCourty is responsible for getting on top of the TE that Hightower was trailing and you can see him breaking towards the middle of the field.

Again you do not know the call. McCourty was going toward the middle of the field. Who covers the TE on an out or flag route?
Unless you know the coverage that was called you don't know who messed up.

 

[pencilneckgeek]

Not to dispute Andy's assertion that we don't know (because we don't), but I was hoping for some informed speculation.

I'm inclined to agree with Gronknoname (hey mods, give the poor guy a new handle), not because I don't think a safety can cover that far over, but rather because I think it was almost certainly Talib's job to track the receiver and help in coverage, once the pass read had been made. This is not because I know the call, but because I think that's how BB rolls in terms of drawing-up his defense to prevent the big play. If it were Tampa 2, where Hightower dropped straight to the center deep zone, Gregory would have been over top for Talib, but with Hightower simply following his man, I would think that Talib and Arrington weren't on the same marching orders (to follow their man deep) with Gregory providing help to that side of the field, but not being the lone watchman in the corner. It's possible that only Dennard had deep coverage responsibilities with McCourty in the middle, and Gregory completely missed his rotation, but that would really expose the underneath on the weak side, leaving Mayo alone with Spiller over there.

 

[PP2]

I'm not sure if I fully buy Field's analysis of this one. Certainly, if it is Cover 2 on Talib's side, Gregory should be over there helping. A primary point of Cover 6 is to limit the responsibilities for the Cover 2 side safety, and McCourty would be responsible for helping Hightower with teh TE. That would be on Gregory. However, given that that's the strong side with 3 receivers to 2 on the other side, shouldn't that be the Quarters side of the field, in which case the corner (Arrington or Talib, in this case) would be responsible for carrying his man deep? (Or it's a straight Cover 4, which is essentially the same for our purposes.) I'm pretty confident they didn't draw it up like that. It looks to my under-informed eye that Talib must have blown that coverage.

Fields is correct in deducing cover 2 from seeing Hightower in trail (as he has turned his back completely on the QB, signifying he is expecting over the top help).

McCourty is not at fault for not helping on Hightower as that is not his half of the field.

If anyone is technically at fault here it is Talib for not maintaining outside leverage on his receiver as the goal of the corner in the general cover 2 scheme is to drive his receiver inwards, towards the safety, and not allow him to get to the outside as that stretches the safety too thin.

But the person I am going to bash here is Gregory. I have never been a fan of him. The guy has zero instincts. He is only out there because he does not make catastrophic mistakes. You can see that he simply freezes in reading EJ and is ignoring the seam route so I would disagree with Fields' interpretation there. He is just in passive read and react mode which in the NFL is only going to buy you the best seat in the house.

Any safety earning their paycheck's worth would have instantly made for the sideline once he saw Talib lose leverage because he knows the QB is keying on that as the primary option. I am willing to bet you that Hightower's man was the second option and that the seam route included a break in case the outside read failed.

 

[Ring 6]

Not to dispute Andy's assertion that we don't know (because we don't), but I was hoping for some informed speculation.

I'm inclined to agree with Gronknoname (hey mods, give the poor guy a new handle), not because I don't think a safety can cover that far over, but rather because I think it was almost certainly Talib's job to track the receiver and help in coverage, once the pass read had been made. This is not because I know the call, but because I think that's how BB rolls in terms of drawing-up his defense to prevent the big play. If it were Tampa 2, where Hightower dropped straight to the center deep zone, Gregory would have been over top for Talib, but with Hightower simply following his man, I would think that Talib and Arrington weren't on the same marching orders (to follow their man deep) with Gregory providing help to that side of the field, but not being the lone watchman in the corner. It's possible that only Dennard had deep coverage responsibilities with McCourty in the middle, and Gregory completely missed his rotation, but that would really expose the underneath on the weak side, leaving Mayo alone with Spiller over there.

The argument that says Talib was not at fault was that it was cover2 so his coverage stopped about 15 yards downfield and Gregory had that deep 3rd. Didn't look that way to me, but you can't really make sense of it because someone was not playing the D that was called. Hard to accurately speculate the call when players were playing different coverages.

 

[Ring 6]

Fields is correct in deducing cover 2 from seeing Hightower in trail (as he has turned his back completely on the QB, signifying he is expecting over the top help).

McCourty is not at fault for not helping on Hightower as that is not his half of the field.

If anyone is technically at fault here it is Talib for not maintaining outside leverage on his receiver as the goal of the corner in the general cover 2 scheme is to drive his receiver inwards, towards the safety, and not allow him to get to the outside as that stretches the safety too thin.

But the person I am going to bash here is Gregory. I have never been a fan of him. The guy has zero instincts. He is only out there because he does not make catastrophic mistakes. You can see that he simply freezes in reading EJ and is ignoring the seam route so I would disagree with Fields' interpretation there. He is just in passive read and react mode which in the NFL is only going to buy you the best seat in the house.

Any safety earning their paycheck's worth would have instantly made for the sideline once he saw Talib lose leverage because he knows the QB is keying on that as the primary option. I am willing to bet you that Hightower's man was the second option and that the seam route included a break in case the outside read failed.

Gregory cannot play his position by trying to read leverage of other players.

 

[supafly]

But the person I am going to bash here is Gregory. I have never been a fan of him. The guy has zero instincts. He is only out there because he does not make catastrophic mistakes.

I have always believed that Gregory would be much better suited for a rotational role as a #3rd safety, but not as an every down starter. He'd provide nice depth as a semi-talented player, but I dislike him as a starter myself. Once again this may be a key issue this year, and that is very unfortunate.

If Harmon or Wilson could step up things may be much different, but I'm not going to hold my breath at this point in time of their careers. We may have to take another shot in the springtime draft yet again.

 

[PP2]

Gregory cannot play his position by trying to read leverage of other players.

A safety is taught never to depend on just reading the QB because a good QB will not telegraph who he is going to throw to. Rodney was very good because he could "see" the whole field.

 

[PP2]

I have always believed that Gregory would be much better suited for a rotational role as a #3rd safety, but not as an every down starter. He'd provide nice depth as a semi-talented player, but I dislike him as a starter myself. Once again this may be a key issue this year, and that is very unfortunate.

If Harmon or Wilson could step up things may be much different, but I'm not going to hold my breath at this point in time of their careers. We may have to take another shot in the springtime draft yet again.

I am high on Harmon. I thought he had great field vision in his play in the preseason.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Ok, I know we can't know who was at fault on every play, because we don't have the defensive calls, but I still think a little analysis would prove worthwhile and interesting to those of us with a more modest understanding of what's going on.

Field Yates took a stab at this on the ESPN Boston blog, but for me, it raises as many questions as it answers:



The TV audience view:
Buffalo Bills quarterback EJ Manuel 18-yard touchdown pass to Robert Woods - NFL Videos

And an end zone view, as posted by one of our own...


I'm not sure if I fully buy Field's analysis of this one. Certainly, if it is Cover 2 on Talib's side, Gregory should be over there helping. A primary point of Cover 6 is to limit the responsibilities for the Cover 2 side safety, and McCourty would be responsible for helping Hightower with teh TE. That would be on Gregory. However, given that that's the strong side with 3 receivers to 2 on the other side, shouldn't that be the Quarters side of the field, in which case the corner (Arrington or Talib, in this case) would be responsible for carrying his man deep? (Or it's a straight Cover 4, which is essentially the same for our purposes.) I'm pretty confident they didn't draw it up like that.

It looks to my under-informed eye that Talib must have blown that coverage. I know things get more complicated in the pro game, particularly with a bunch set like that, so maybe I'm reading it wrong. Unlike Field, I don't have a resume where Scott Pioli signed my paychecks, but I'd like to see if someone with more experience can shed some light on this, so we all might understand better what's going on in the future (rather than reflexively blaming the guy who made the previous mistake, for example).

Here's Tedy Bruschi on the Woods touchdown:

Chat: Chat with Tedy Bruschi - SportsNation - ESPN Boston

Ian B (Ottawa, ON)



Hey Tedy, great to have you back for the chats for another year! How did you see the breakdown on Woods touchdown? Safety a little slow getting over?
Tedy (12:02 PM)




I do not feel the safety was slow getting over. It appeared to me, watching the replay and the tape of the game this morning, it looked like Steve Gregory was helping on the tight end. Before the play, Gregory communicates to Hightower, who was covering the tight end. That's why I thought Gregory was helping Hightower over the top, and I say that because the easiest throw in the red area is to the tight end in the middle of the field. The lower percentage throws are deep to the outside. You notice something else before the play, Talib is attempting to communicate with Arrington (the inside corner). The Bills are in a bunch formation, which means three receivers within a close proximity of each other. This can cause traffic problems and stresses propoer communication. As the play develops, Stevie Johnson breaks to the flat. Both Arrington and Talib sit on it (attempting to defend it). That's where the breakdown occurred. One of them was supposed to have the 7 route to Woods, and the other was supposed to play deep to short on the flat route. You never want to have two defenders focused on a flat route when you have a receiver going deep and outside (the 7 route). Especially in the red area.

​

It sounds to my totally ignorant ears that you and TB are in agreement.

 

[PP2]

Here's Tedy Bruschi on the Woods touchdown:

I do not feel the safety was slow getting over. It appeared to me, watching the replay and the tape of the game this morning, it looked like Steve Gregory was helping on the tight end. Before the play, Gregory communicates to Hightower, who was covering the tight end. That's why I thought Gregory was helping Hightower over the top, and I say that because the easiest throw in the red area is to the tight end in the middle of the field. The lower percentage throws are deep to the outside. You notice something else before the play, Talib is attempting to communicate with Arrington (the inside corner). The Bills are in a bunch formation, which means three receivers within a close proximity of each other. This can cause traffic problems and stresses propoer communication. As the play develops, Stevie Johnson breaks to the flat. Both Arrington and Talib sit on it (attempting to defend it). That's where the breakdown occurred. One of them was supposed to have the 7 route to Woods, and the other was supposed to play deep to short on the flat route. You never want to have two defenders focused on a flat route when you have a receiver going deep and outside (the 7 route). Especially in the red area.

[/INDENT]
It sounds to my totally ignorant ears that you and TB are in agreement.

I have all the respect in the world for Tedy's opinion, after all he is the best source to consult without having to go inside.

It still remains, to me, that even though Gregory had elected to pick up on that seam route, he was in cover 2 and therefore is responsible for cleaning up on his end of the field.

I still think a solid safety would have made a big difference by having good field vision and having a nose for where the play was going to break, e.g., anticipating.

 

[mgcolby]

Or it could be as simple as a miscommunication. Sometime we like to over think it...but the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. The OP is right, we don't know and have no way of knowing because we don't know the call.

An example: I coach youth football and we use two coverages Cover 2 and Cover 3. We run a 4-3, we gave up a TD in week one because one safety called Cover 2 and the other safety called Cover 3. The CB played cover 2 and his cover safety was playing cover 3. To every parent it looked like the CB made a mistake and quite on the route when in fact he was playing flat in cover 2. Both safeties were technically correct when they made the call, as a receiver went in motion, however the safety who made the second call should not have made the change as coverage calls are not his responsibility. It was a teaching moment for the kids and the Parents who were certain the CB was wrong.

Lesson to the kids its best to be wrong together, with everyone in synch with each other. And the Parents learned that they don't know as much as they think they do.

If blown assignments aren't obvious to observers at the 12-13 year old level, imagine how hard it is to tell at the NFL level, which is infinitely more intricate. Just my 0.02 cents.

 

[Mike the Brit]

I have all the respect in the world for Tedy's opinion, after all he is the best source to consult without having to go inside.

It still remains, to me, that even though Gregory had elected to pick up on that seam route, he was in cover 2 and therefore is responsible for cleaning up on his end of the field.

I still think a solid safety would have made a big difference by having good field vision and having a nose for where the play was going to break, e.g., anticipating.

Great thread, by the way -- thanks to all.

 

[unoriginal]

I'm not sure if I fully buy Field's analysis of this one. Certainly, if it is Cover 2 on Talib's side, Gregory should be over there helping. A primary point of Cover 6 is to limit the responsibilities for the Cover 2 side safety, and McCourty would be responsible for helping Hightower with teh TE. That would be on Gregory. However, given that that's the strong side with 3 receivers to 2 on the other side, shouldn't that be the Quarters side of the field, in which case the corner (Arrington or Talib, in this case) would be responsible for carrying his man deep? (Or it's a straight Cover 4, which is essentially the same for our purposes.) I'm pretty confident they didn't draw it up like that.

I'm with you on that. What's going on the near side is anybody's guess, which is what makes it so fascinating to watch.

If it's vanilla Cover 2, Gregory's at fault. In the case of two verticals in Cover 2, the linebacker/inside corner runs with "#2" and the safety, if he can't stay on top and split the difference due to lack of field, needs to float over to the sideline because usually the outside CB does not run vertical with the "#1" route, he protects the flats. Certainly the way Talib skates underneath Woods's out-cut fake suggests he believes his responsibility is the flats.

But it could just as easily be a man-combo situation with strange CB alignments due to the bunch set receivers, with Talib just getting beat. My impression of Talib is that he tends to lope along with receivers and try to "run their routes" with them instead of playing more reactive coverage, which as he is both large and lanky for a corner and a ballhawk plays to his strengths but will result from time to time in plays where it doesn't look like he's making much of an effort, like this one. If this is the situation then its more excusable for Gregory to focus on the first route that develops because (a) that's the first route to develop and you might as well make the rookie QB go through his progressions and (b) throws to smaller receivers on the outside are harder than throws to large tight ends on the inside, and since he's running out of real estate he might as well pick a poison instead of getting caught in no man's land.

And as you noted, Yates may have gotten his directions reversed and they're playing Quarters/Cover 4 to the near side, in which case Talib royally blew it.

Another thing: in both the plays this thread looks at, McCourty takes a weird jab step forward at the snap, and he seems surprised by the snap each time. Safeties are supposed to make their reads from a controlled backpedal. I think that strange tic / technique no-no accounts for the 2nd TD, the one to Stevie Johnson. Johnson just passes McCourty in the fast lane because McCourty is making these false steps out there. Sometimes he looks less like a safety and more like a guard trying to stop dribble penetration.

Arrington also aligns in a jamming position but doesn't disrupt Johnson at all. That did McCourty no favors in the footrace down the field. Dennard really is the Pats best player at jamming. Probably why he's the most consistent corner.

 

[RayClay]

Great thread.

 

[jsull87]

Number 1 looks like a miscommunication to me. if it was cover 6 then it looks like they called the wrong side of the field to have the cover 2 and cover 4 set up. It looks to me that gregory probably knew that. I.E it looks like he was wondering why he had the entire strong side to cover.

2 is on McCourty he was just to shallow and a step behind where he needed to be.

 

[Ring 6]

So you respect bruschis opinion bit totally dismiss it and deem him wrong from your living room? Interesting. You should have stopped with you don't like Gregory. Everything that follows appears controlled by that feeling.

I have all the respect in the world for Tedy's opinion, after all he is the best source to consult without having to go inside.

It still remains, to me, that even though Gregory had elected to pick up on that seam route, he was in cover 2 and therefore is responsible for cleaning up on his end of the field.

I still think a solid safety would have made a big difference by having good field vision and having a nose for where the play was going to break, e.g., anticipating.