Cameron Heyward

[mgteich]

Have folks forgotten his injury issue? I've seen no mention of his injury lately. A few weeks age, many had him completely off their boards.

 

[sbpatfan]

Is Tommy John surgery even that serious for football players? I remember Deion Sanders had the same thing done at one point. I'm no doctor but it seems like an elbow problem is a much smaller worry than say, a torn ACL. Its somewhat surprising how much someone can be written off just because they weren't able to participate in the combine. The kid had a good career at O$U.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

Have folks forgotten his injury issue? I've seen no mention of his injury lately. A few weeks age, many had him completely off their boards.

Well its tommy johns not microscopic knee surgery. He supposedly is ahead of schedule according to sources. He will be able to go for Ohio state's pro day on wednesday.

This may be even more of a reason for the pats to cash in on his sliding stock, by trading down from 17 if watt is off the board. We could acquire a few more picks and still get a stud run stopper that has the tools to be a potential pass rusher from that LDE spot.

I posted the comparison between he and seymour in some other threads. Interested in what u think. Watt is my #1 DE but I don't think he is a seymour type of DE. Which is what alot of people seem to be wanting at that LDE spot.

 

[andrewgarrr]

I posted the comparison between he and seymour in some other threads.

Seymour was (and still probably is) the best 34 DE (Raiders played a lot of 43 last season) in the league for the past 10 years. I'd even go so far to say he was in the top 2 defensive lineman in the past 10 years (Warren Sapp). The expectation of any player to fill his shoes is ridiculous. Suh was probably the only player to come out in the last 10 years that has the potential to match Sapp or Seymour's production and impact in the league. Watt, Heyward, Jordan, Dareus, Bowers, Fairley do not. Dareus comes the closest. Lets compare some of these guys to Ty Warren - who is still a damn good defensive lineman, but Sapp and Seymour are HOFers, and they are once in a generation type players.

 

[mgteich]

Yes, Heyward is similar to Seyomour. I'm sure the pats will be at his pro date. Of course, if he has a great pro date (and injury concerns are gone0 he could move up on the boards.

I was fine with drafting both Watt and Heyward. If watt is gone and Jordan are gone, we could very well trade down from 17 and draft Heyward (or Wilkerson).

Well its tommy johns not microscopic knee surgery. He supposedly is ahead of schedule according to sources. He will be able to go for Ohio state's pro day on wednesday.

This may be even more of a reason for the pats to cash in on his sliding stock, by trading down from 17 if watt is off the board. We could acquire a few more picks and still get a stud run stopper that has the tools to be a potential pass rusher from that LDE spot.

I posted the comparison between he and seymour in some other threads. Interested in what u think. Watt is my #1 DE but I don't think he is a seymour type of DE. Which is what alot of people seem to be wanting at that LDE spot.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I do not care. Based on my lying eyes, this kid played most of the season with the passion of a 60 year old prostitute. That does not make him a hot date, or even a sure thing. Maybe Rex Ryan can do something with him - his Ohio State quota is low at the moment.

 

[tuckeverlasting]

I do not care. Based on my lying eyes, this kid played most of the season with the passion of a 60 year old prostitute. That does not make him a hot date, or even a sure thing. Maybe Rex Ryan can do something with him - his Ohio State quota is low at the moment.

sorry, don't know any 60 yr old prosti's, so please enlighten me. is this a positive or a negative, is heyward an option @ 17

 

[supafly]

Well its tommy johns not microscopic knee surgery. He supposedly is ahead of schedule according to sources. He will be able to go for Ohio state's pro day on wednesday.

This may be even more of a reason for the pats to cash in on his sliding stock, by trading down from 17 if watt is off the board. We could acquire a few more picks and still get a stud run stopper that has the tools to be a potential pass rusher from that LDE spot.

I posted the comparison between he and seymour in some other threads. Interested in what u think. Watt is my #1 DE but I don't think he is a seymour type of DE. Which is what alot of people seem to be wanting at that LDE spot.

Apologies if it seems like nitpicking, I believe you mean RDE spot, as that would go with your Seymour comparisons etc. Also Ty Warren will likely man the LDE as usual, barring a bad setback to his injured status.

I do believe that Heyward could be that guy, sure. I also agree with Box, mg, and many others that he would not likely be the BPA available at this position, but Belichick may somehow feel differently. He may feel that he somehow fits our scheme better, or maybe even that Watt is off of our boards due to someone else grabbing him or Condon's presence in the matter. Maybe if he wipes Watt off, then it suddenly becomes either Heyward or Wilkerson. He also could be targeting a different position at 17, if he thinks there is higher value at said position, and looking to the aforementioned players at 28 or 33.

I wouldn't be disappointed with an OL or BPA at 17, then Wilkerson or Heyward later at 28 or 33, if that's the vision our coach has.

 

[supafly]

Have folks forgotten his injury issue? I've seen no mention of his injury lately. A few weeks age, many had him completely off their boards.

It was only a 8-10 week injury, nothing serious in my opinion, as he has also been ahead of schedule according to Dr.James Andrews.

 

[supafly]

I do not care. Based on my lying eyes, this kid played most of the season with the passion of a 60 year old prostitute. That does not make him a hot date, or even a sure thing. Maybe Rex Ryan can do something with him - his Ohio State quota is low at the moment.

You have a point when looking at stats alone, although he had a good enough year in 2009 to warrant the entire offseason chatter of being a very high draft pick, yet decided to stay for his senior year. In '09 he put up 6 sacks, in '10 he put up 4.

He certainly played very well in their biggest games on national television, vs Miami early in the season, and Arkansas in the Sugar Bowl. I am admittedly an OSU fan, so I did watch all of his games this year and last.

Here is an article that projects him to NE :
Heyward looks part as 3-4 end for Pats - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Here is another poster's stats in comparison to Richard Seymour, who he reminds us, only had 1.5 sacks his senior season at Georgia, where he went #6 overall :

Career Numbers:

Richard Seymour: TOT - 223
Solo - 106
Sacks - 9.5
TFL - 25.5

Cam Heyward: 157
79
14.5
34

-------

I believe if we are indeed targeting Heyward, it is because of his incredible size, bulk, bloodlines, and versatility--more than his stats. The following reasons would lead me to believe that he is at least on our radar.

He is 6'5 1/2" anywhere from 295-300 lbs
Wingspan of 34 1/2"
Hands are enormous, almost 11"

He has shown great versatility in being a 3 down player, moving inside for 1st and 2nd downs in the 4-3, then outside at DE on 3rd down situations.

-------

This next link is very impressive, and a must-read for anyone wanting to know more about his fit in the 3-4 scheme. It gives him some pretty good rankings as projected for a 3-4 defense.

"Size / Strength: 10 – Excellent size as a 3-4 DE, a position in need of due to the popularity of the 3-4 defensive scheme. Heyward is very stout at the point of attack, consistently draws double teams and works hard off of those double teams. Stays low with his pad level at times, has good leg drive, and is effective with the bullrush."

"Best fit: 3-4 DE (either a 2 gap or 1 gap scheme). NFL-wise Heyward is the ideal DE for the New England Patriots; a stalwart against the run, with enough athleticism to develop into a dominant pass rusher."

"Run / Pass Skills: 8.5 – Prior to the Sugar Bowl this past month, I would have given Heyward a 7.5 in Run/Pass Skills; however the clinic Heyward displayed against Arkansas was impressive. Heyward showed the skills to get to the quarterback consistently, all the while facing a pretty solid left tackle, Demarcus Love. Cam Heyward is strong at the point of attack, never seeming to be overpowered.

Heyward is very productive against the run, setting a hard edge and scraping down the line with his shoulders squared when on the backside. He has excellent football IQ, diagnosing plays quickly. Cam plays his responsibilities and maintains backside contain. All in all a perfect 3-4 DE."

"Intangibles: 10 – Cam Heyward returned for his senior season and, according to the Ohio State coaching staff, has the best work ethic of any Buckeye football player on roster. Heyward has a constant motor and also has strong leadership qualities."


The 3-4 | Original NFL Analysis and Predictions

-----

Certainly sounds like he should be on our radar. I also found this part interesting:

"NFL Comparison: Richard Seymour, Oakland Raiders"

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

sorry, don't know any 60 yr old prosti's, so please enlighten me. is this a positive or a negative, is heyward an option @ 17

Ah, the shy and retiring type! Never mind me lad, we'll sip ale together for courage, and true vision, then set of on this quest for enlightenment together! (And I consider Heyward an option at #60, he was most disappointing to my lying eyes when viewed from the perspective of my television screen - made all the worse by his dramatic performance in the final game of his career, oh what could have been.)

 

[stinkypete]

I do not care. Based on my lying eyes, this kid played most of the season with the passion of a 60 year old prostitute. That does not make him a hot date, or even a sure thing. Maybe Rex Ryan can do something with him - his Ohio State quota is low at the moment.

Weren't people saying the same of Seymour back before the '01 draft? Didn't Seymour have work ethic and effort questions.

 

[lostjumper]

Weren't people saying the same of Seymour back before the '01 draft? Didn't Seymour have work ethic and effort questions.

I don't remember any work ethic questions. It was more along "OMG!!! He only had 1.5 sacks last year!!! He suckzzzz!!! /borges

 

[West Philly Patriot]

Seymour was (and still probably is) the best 34 DE (Raiders played a lot of 43 last season) in the league for the past 10 years. I'd even go so far to say he was in the top 2 defensive lineman in the past 10 years (Warren Sapp). The expectation of any player to fill his shoes is ridiculous.

I was speaking more in reference to what Big Sey was when he was drafted in 2001. He was a very athletic run stopping DT, with the tools to be a dominant pass rusher. Of course there is no real comparison to seymour's career and this kid.

I do not care. Based on my lying eyes, this kid played most of the season with the passion of a 60 year old prostitute.That does not make him a hot date, or even a sure thing. Maybe Rex Ryan can do something with him - his Ohio State quota is low at the moment.

You have a point when looking at stats alone, although he had a good enough year in 2009 to warrant the entire offseason chatter of being a very high draft pick, yet decided to stay for his senior year. In '09 he put up 6 sacks, in '10 he put up 4.

He certainly played very well in their biggest games on national television, vs Miami early in the season, and Arkansas in the Sugar Bowl. I am admittedly an OSU fan, so I did watch all of his games this year and last.

Here is an article that projects him to NE :
Heyward looks part as 3-4 end for Pats - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Here is another poster's stats in comparison to Richard Seymour, who he reminds us, only had 1.5 sacks his senior season at Georgia, where he went #6 overall :

Career Numbers:

Richard Seymour: TOT - 223
Solo - 106
Sacks - 9.5
TFL - 25.5

Cam Heyward: 157
79
14.5
34

-------

I believe if we are indeed targeting Heyward, it is because of his incredible size, bulk, bloodlines, and versatility--more than his stats. The following reasons would lead me to believe that he is at least on our radar.

He is 6'5 1/2" anywhere from 295-300 lbs
Wingspan of 34 1/2"
Hands are enormous, almost 11"

He has shown great versatility in being a 3 down player, moving inside for 1st and 2nd downs in the 4-3, then outside at DE on 3rd down situations.

-------

This next link is very impressive, and a must-read for anyone wanting to know more about his fit in the 3-4 scheme. It gives him some pretty good rankings as projected for a 3-4 defense.

"Size / Strength: 10 – Excellent size as a 3-4 DE, a position in need of due to the popularity of the 3-4 defensive scheme. Heyward is very stout at the point of attack, consistently draws double teams and works hard off of those double teams. Stays low with his pad level at times, has good leg drive, and is effective with the bullrush."

"Best fit: 3-4 DE (either a 2 gap or 1 gap scheme). NFL-wise Heyward is the ideal DE for the New England Patriots; a stalwart against the run, with enough athleticism to develop into a dominant pass rusher."

"Run / Pass Skills: 8.5 – Prior to the Sugar Bowl this past month, I would have given Heyward a 7.5 in Run/Pass Skills; however the clinic Heyward displayed against Arkansas was impressive. Heyward showed the skills to get to the quarterback consistently, all the while facing a pretty solid left tackle, Demarcus Love. Cam Heyward is strong at the point of attack, never seeming to be overpowered.

Heyward is very productive against the run, setting a hard edge and scraping down the line with his shoulders squared when on the backside. He has excellent football IQ, diagnosing plays quickly. Cam plays his responsibilities and maintains backside contain. All in all a perfect 3-4 DE."

"Intangibles: 10 – Cam Heyward returned for his senior season and, according to the Ohio State coaching staff, has the best work ethic of any Buckeye football player on roster. Heyward has a constant motor and also has strong leadership qualities."


The 3-4 | Original NFL Analysis and Predictions

-----

Certainly sounds like he should be on our radar. I also found this part interesting:

"NFL Comparison: Richard Seymour, Oakland Raiders"

This a great article, and it reinforced the comments I made. He is an athletic run stopper much like seymour was in '01. He's pretty close to the Ideal measurements that Sey had, and he's intelligent. Plus he will provide value in the mid-late 1st and we won't need to pick him @ 17. Wilfork slid to 32 and I think this kid will be the same kind of story.

O and yea thanks for the correction I meant RDE. I dont know if the work ethic stuff is true, honestly i would be more worried about that than the elbow. But I trust our coaches to do their due diligence on that.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

Yes, Heyward is similar to Seyomour. I'm sure the pats will be at his pro date. Of course, if he has a great pro date (and injury concerns are gone0 he could move up on the boards.

I was fine with drafting both Watt and Heyward. If watt is gone and Jordan are gone, we could very well trade down from 17 and draft Heyward (or Wilkerson).

I am really interested in his shuttle, 3 cone and 10 yard split to see if he has the agility to be more than just a run stuffer. I already know he's powerful and stout @ the POA.

 

[patchick]

I don't remember any work ethic questions. It was more along "OMG!!! He only had 1.5 sacks last year!!! He suckzzzz!!! /borges

There were definitely "takes plays off" rumblings about Seymour, as there are about most 300-lb college DTs -- it's typically a stamina issue. General work ethic, practice & workout habits, etc. are a different matter, though.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Here is another poster's stats in comparison to Richard Seymour, who he reminds us, only had 1.5 sacks his senior season at Georgia, where he went #6 overall :

Career Numbers:

Richard Seymour: TOT - 223
Solo - 106
Sacks - 9.5
TFL - 25.5

Cam Heyward: 157
79
14.5
34

College stats are a poor indicator of how a prospect will translate to the pros. The numbers often lie. The question is what kind of tools does the kid have, will those translate against a higher grade of competition, and does he have the makeup and work ethic to get better and better at the next level? Often if you are not going forward in the pros you are going backwards.

If you really insist on examining the stats, for comparison's sake in 2 seasons of work JJ Watt put up 106 tackles, 36.5 TFLs, and 11 sacks.
Project that to 4 seasons worth and you'll get around 200 tackles and 20 sacks with 72 TFLs which are comparable if not better than the other two candidates in the comparison.

In any case, the stats are not as important as the tools. Just watch Watt on film and you'll see that he has tools to beat offensive linemen in a variety of ways, and I haven't seen this level of agility and quickness in a DL in a long time. Given that he's still a junior and already has a 6'5 frame at 290 lbs, it's not hard to see him filling out into a 300 lb monster with Peppers level agility. Just thinking of what BB could do with such a defensive weapon is exciting to say the least.

Heyward does have some interesting physical qualities to him but he didn't show that consistency from game to game in 2010. He mainly blew up at his bowl game but didn't really show up to that prior. Was this due to injury or is it his overall makeup? That's what's really keeping him lower on my draft board.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I was speaking more in reference to what Big Sey was when he was drafted in 2001. He was a very athletic run stopping DT, with the tools to be a dominant pass rusher. Of course there is no real comparison to seymour's career and this kid.

In college Seymour played along side Stroud and while Stroud tried to shoot the gap, Seymour covered the gaps behind him and that showed BB what a huge monster he was as a potential two gapper.

 

[supafly]

College stats are a poor indicator of how a prospect will translate to the pros. The numbers often lie. The question is what kind of tools does the kid have, will those translate against a higher grade of competition, and does he have the makeup and work ethic to get better and better at the next level? Often if you are not going forward in the pros you are going backwards.

If you really insist on examining the stats, for comparison's sake in 2 seasons of work JJ Watt put up 106 tackles, 36.5 TFLs, and 11 sacks.
Project that to 4 seasons worth and you'll get around 200 tackles and 20 sacks with 72 TFLs which are comparable if not better than the other two candidates in the comparison.

In any case, the stats are not as important as the tools. Just watch Watt on film and you'll see that he has tools to beat offensive linemen in a variety of ways, and I haven't seen this level of agility and quickness in a DL in a long time. Given that he's still a junior and already has a 6'5 frame at 290 lbs, it's not hard to see him filling out into a 300 lb monster with Peppers level agility. Just thinking of what BB could do with such a defensive weapon is exciting to say the least.

Heyward does have some interesting physical qualities to him but he didn't show that consistency from game to game in 2010. He mainly blew up at his bowl game but didn't really show up to that prior. Was this due to injury or is it his overall makeup? That's what's really keeping him lower on my draft board.

I do also agree without a doubt that Watt is the better pick. The only questions I have with JJ Watt are whether or not we'll use the Condon excuse, if he'd even be there at 17, how BB feels about the value there vs. the value at taking another position such as OL or BPA at 17 instead, and of course how BB projects him to our system.

Everything else is not much of a debate for me--Watt is my pick too.

I think we are just giving examples of taking someone later, after the 17 pick, in case that is the route they go.

As far as the stats etc--I agree with you. I pointed out another poster's stats vs Big Sey just to show that they aren't worlds apart. I agree that skill set, strength, how he handles himself, football IQ etc are important, and that's why I listed those too.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

College stats are a poor indicator of how a prospect will translate to the pros. The numbers often lie. The question is what kind of tools does the kid have, will those translate against a higher grade of competition, and does he have the makeup and work ethic to get better and better at the next level? Often if you are not going forward in the pros you are going backwards.

If you really insist on examining the stats, for comparison's sake in 2 seasons of work JJ Watt put up 106 tackles, 36.5 TFLs, and 11 sacks.
Project that to 4 seasons worth and you'll get around 200 tackles and 20 sacks with 72 TFLs which are comparable if not better than the other two candidates in the comparison.

In any case, the stats are not as important as the tools. Just watch Watt on film and you'll see that he has tools to beat offensive linemen in a variety of ways, and I haven't seen this level of agility and quickness in a DL in a long time. Given that he's still a junior and already has a 6'5 frame at 290 lbs, it's not hard to see him filling out into a 300 lb monster with Peppers level agility. Just thinking of what BB could do with such a defensive weapon is exciting to say the least.

Heyward does have some interesting physical qualities to him but he didn't show that consistency from game to game in 2010. He mainly blew up at his bowl game but didn't really show up to that prior. Was this due to injury or is it his overall makeup? That's what's really keeping him lower on my draft board.

I do also agree without a doubt that Watt is the better pick. The only questions I have with JJ Watt are whether or not we'll use the Condon excuse, if he'd even be there at 17, how BB feels about the value there vs. the value at taking another position such as OL or BPA at 17 instead, and of course how BB projects him to our system.

Everything else is not much of a debate for me--Watt is my pick too.

I think we are just giving examples of taking someone later, after the 17 pick, in case that is the route they go.

As far as the stats etc--I agree with you. I pointed out another poster's stats vs Big Sey just to show that they aren't worlds apart. I agree that skill set, strength, how he handles himself, football IQ etc are important, and that's why I listed those too.

We are all saying the same thing. I'm just coming to grips with the fact watt probably won't be there at 17. I only put those stats up to show that Big Sey's game is closer to Heyward than watt's to me. Heyward will be the best DE left and we can even trade back and butter our bread a little. I think he can contribute to our run D right away in the 30, and kick inside in the 4-2 nickel. So he still warrants a day one pick imo.