Cam working on rebuilding his throwing fundamentals

[Deus Irae]

That 15-1 season was one of the biggest flukes in NFL history. He was -never- as good as he was made out to be on the basis of that season, witness his turtle job in the SB and the fact that he's only ever broken 90 in quarter back rating twice in his entire career.

Newton won the MVP in 2015 because his team went 15-1, because his 10 rushing touchdowns made him the NFL's TD leader that season and, quite possibly, because of the politics of it all. But, statistically, Brady and Palmer actually had better seasons than Newton. The fact that the final vote was so lopsided (Newton 48, Brady and Palmer 1 each) serves as a powerful example of narrative over truth. Cam Newton was not better than the 3rd best QB in 2015, yet he won the MVP.


And, don't get me wrong here, because I don't begrudge Newton the award. The most valuable player does not always win the MVP. The best player does not always win the MVP. The best coach does not always win COY. ETC.... I begrudge Manning couple of his MVP's, but playing like a top level QB combined with a 15-1 team record is enough to make Cam getting the award, though not the ridiculously lopsided vote totals, defensible.

But any notion that we should be giving him some special respect in 2021 about his playing abilities, over what has become an overhyped 2015 season, is truly bizarre. Peyton Manning won the SB that year, and I don't want him starting for the 2021 Patriots, either.

 

[‘Mondre]

Ok

Cam sucked during the second half of last season. He just plain sucked. No amount of ball washing will fix that. That was what we are all left with, him completely sucking. Whether or not he is a good/great man, he was awful last season. There are lots of excuses/reasons why he played as poorly as he did, and I think it is extremely fair to give him the benefit of the doubt and hope he will be much better than he was last year. But.... it is all on him, blaming any fan for being extremely skeptical of his abilities going forward is sort of a fool's mission.

you said give benefit of doubt. We agree. Lots of exaggerations in your post but... he was a 5/10 last year... I’m gonna say he’s a 7/10 overall today.

 

[‘Mondre]

Newton won the MVP in 2015 because his team went 15-1, because his 10 rushing touchdowns made him the NFL's TD leader that season and, quite possibly, because of the politics of it all. But, statistically, Brady and Palmer actually had better seasons than Newton. The fact that the final vote was so lopsided (Newton 48, Brady and Palmer 1 each) serves as a powerful example of narrative over truth. Cam Newton was not better than the 3rd best QB in 2015, yet he won the MVP.


And, don't get me wrong here, because I don't begrudge Newton the award. The most valuable player does not always win the MVP. The best player does not always win the MVP. The best coach does not always win COY. ETC.... I begrudge Manning couple of his MVP's, but playing like a top level QB combined with a 15-1 team record is enough to make Cam getting the award, though not the ridiculously lopsided vote totals, defensible.

But any notion that we should be giving him some special respect in 2021 about his playing abilities, over what has become an overhyped 2015 season, is truly bizarre. Peyton Manning won the SB that year, and I don't want him starting for the 2021 Patriots, either.

That’s why it’s called most valuable player. By your standards just call it “qb of the year” award. The politics are your favor, not his.

but also like... if you don’t begrudge him the award then like... what’s your point, man? If others got it unfairly in your opinion... why is Newton’s based off politics? Why does the vote count even matter here? What are you trying to say my guy?

 

[‘Mondre]

15-1 was an outlier year. I respect that year. It was a great year but please don't use that to draw some kind of equivalence to Brady's 20 year career credentials. He's earned a little benefit of a doubt when calling out coaches. Look it. I hope Cam bounces back this year. He's working hard to rejuvenate it. That's what deserves a lot of repect. If he wasnt trying so hard then I'd be all over him too. People just have to know the difference between recognizing legitimate criticism of someone or an outright demeaning them.

The way you guys defend Brady youd think he was paying your bills. Jesus. Don’t take it personally. The evaluation of our qb (Brady ain’t our qb man) needs more NUANCE.

 

[PatsWSB47]

The way you guys defend Brady youd think he was paying your bills. Jesus. Don’t take it personally. The evaluation of our qb (Brady ain’t our qb man) needs more NUANCE.

I didnt bring up Brady. The way that anti-Brady rant went you'd think he was over billing you, lol. I actually defended Newton and tried to show a nuance between criticizing him and demeaning him.

 

[‘Mondre]

I didnt bring up Brady. The way that anti-Brady rant went you'd think he was over billing you, lol. I actually defended Newton and tried to show a nuance between criticizing him and demeaning him.

Hit ctrl+f on ya post, type out “Brady”. Bam. Brady.

the goat, put respect on it. Still a diva. Remember the ‘09 bill doc when he corrects him and he’s insubordinate? Denies messing up then goes “oh that one?” Entitlement. What abt the patriot way guys? Ochocinco, moss pulls that crap you guys would have the mob ready. Dude tried to have a store in the stadium. Come on. Put one qb on a pedestal put em all up there, period.

 

[PatsWSB47]

Hit ctrl+f on ya post, type out “Brady”. Bam. Brady.

the goat, put respect on it. Still a diva. Remember the ‘09 bill doc when he corrects him and he’s insubordinate? Denies messing up then goes “oh that one?” Entitlement. What abt the patriot way guys? Ochocinco, moss pulls that crap you guys would have the mob ready. Dude tried to have a store in the stadium. Come on. Put one qb on a pedestal put em all up there, period.

Right that incident defines him, lol. I dont want to get into it but the "Oh that one"clearly indicates that they were both talking about 2 different things at first. You're like my wife that can't forgot something minor she thinks I did wrong years ago. Obviously you're not simply upset with the way some people are trashing Newton. All too ready to pull out things kept handy in your back pocket to spring on us whenever an opportunity arises and you did it unsolicited. Nice straw man Moss and Ochocinco out of thin air too. I get it. You want Cam elevated. Well he has to deliver. We shouldn't try and have the tallest building by tearing the actual tallest building down.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Mockery-K. So belichick spent crazy money upgrading the team, why did he get Cam to begin with? He knew we’d suck last year too, he’s got a few years left. Remember “nobody’s above the team/patriot way” bs? Why is bill just not wiping his hands? What makes cam special if his stats reveal him to be puuuure trash? Why did the leagues greatest coach get him to begin with? You guys act like I’m saying he’s excellent. Average out the 15-1 season with the rest of the crap... I say with last years team minus the Covid/etc.... in ‘21 we go 10/11 wins this year man. That’s not unrealistic.

also nobody’s disputed the Brady’s a diva thing. Remember AB being the devil cause of the civil case? He was a diva. Remember Jimmy’s weird friendships? Remember Edlemans tv show? Remember “oh gronks just bein gronk”? They umm... settled, and dude has a ring (ab). So. Double standards brah. It’s like y’all can’t wait for cam to slip up personally.

main point... he ain’t the goat.. but he’s better than you guys make him out to be. Nuance in the assessment of his value to the team, the lack of which being rooted in some problematic stuff.

He is a bad quarterback. BB's actually addressed not having a lot of cash last year. Everybody would have LOVED Cam to have been a good QB, but he was not. I for one would LOVE him to be a good QB now, but I don't think he is or will be again. I do think there's no slam dunk that we see Mac Jones this year, but that has to do with how ready Jones has to be.

Of course you were mocked. Your take was a mockery. You wanted respect in 2021 for a good 2015 on another team at that. Bragging about one good season six years ago is just as ridiculous as whining about some off field issue from what was it, 9 years ago?

As to "Brady's a diva," I don't really see it, in terms of his general public persona, but who cares. Get me another 7-ring diva, I'm down. Me, I didn't like his politics. But I mean, these guys are not my buddies. I don't have to personally like them, and I'm sure they really don't personally give two ****s about any of us--surprise, sunshine! I want them to play well and win (preferably) when they're playing for NE. Tom did those things. Cam didn't. That can change, but stop demanding that we pretend he did when he didn't.

 

[Deus Irae]

That’s why it’s called most valuable player.

No, that's not why.

By your standards just call it “qb of the year” award.

It's pretty much become that.

The politics are your favor, not his.

I hate politics in sports, so you've got the wrong guy.

but also like... if you don’t begrudge him the award then like... what’s your point, man? If others got it unfairly in your opinion... why is Newton’s based off politics? Why does the vote count even matter here? What are you trying to say my guy?

My point was obvious to anyone who was reading for comprehension.

 

[‘Mondre]

Right that incident defines him, lol. I dont want to get into it but the "Oh that one"clearly indicates that they were both talking about 2 different things at first. You're like my wife that can't forgot something minor she thinks I did wrong years ago. Obviously you're not simply upset with the way some people are trashing Newton. All too ready to pull out things kept handy in your back pocket to spring on us whenever an opportunity arises and you did it unsolicited. Nice straw man Moss and Ochocinco out of thin air too. I get it. You want Cam elevated. Well he has to deliver. We shouldn't try and have the tallest building by tearing the actual tallest building down.

im prettier than your wife bro.

hes pretty arrogant man. I brought up the O’Brien thing, the store, the wife, the branding... and guess what?!?! I still love me some Brady!! Nuance is great!

I give up. Y’all can have it. I will return when cam does better this season.

if he don’t, I’ll admit I was wrong.

just don’t want y’all to get him like ya did Vick, kaep, etc.

got my man Vick scared as hell on tv now after that castration. Somebody brought up a computer thing from ten years ago on cam... I pray for his protection. He’s our qb until Mac develops deal with it guys.

 

[‘Mondre]

No, that's not why.




It's pretty much become that.






I hate politics in sports, so you've got the wrong guy.



My point was obvious to anyone who was reading for comprehension.

you said the word politics first in an earlier post, not me. You sound cool pretending to be above it tho.

saw this chart saying something like qb is around 20% of a teams cumulative success, need to find it. Its more likely than not to be the deal breaker, we get it. My point is..... put one on the pedestal and make him untouchable ( Brady), do the same for the rest... speaking on “intangibles/character” AND stats. And just cause others make mvp = best qb, doesn’t mean you have to parrot that. You’re your own dude, and brought up your own opinion.

 

[PatsWSB47]

Why you here all of a sudden rookie?

 

[‘Mondre]

He is a bad quarterback. BB's actually addressed not having a lot of cash last year. Everybody would have LOVED Cam to have been a good QB, but he was not. I for one would LOVE him to be a good QB now, but I don't think he is or will be again. I do think there's no slam dunk that we see Mac Jones this year, but that has to do with how ready Jones has to be.

Of course you were mocked. Your take was a mockery. You wanted respect in 2021 for a good 2015 on another team at that. Bragging about one good season six years ago is just as ridiculous as whining about some off field issue from what was it, 9 years ago?

As to "Brady's a diva," I don't really see it, in terms of his general public persona, but who cares. Get me another 7-ring diva, I'm down. Me, I didn't like his politics. But I mean, these guys are not my buddies. I don't have to personally like them, and I'm sure they really don't personally give two ****. Job s about any of us--surprise, sunshine! I want them to play ball well and win (preferably) when they're playing for NE. Tom did those things. Cam didn't. That can change, but stop demanding that we pretend he did when he didn't.

Fair points, I just actually believe in the “nobody’s above the team” stuff. I would’ve let Brady go back in ‘17, be better for him, us, and Bill too. It was becoming toxic. He wanted weapons, Bill either thought it was too late or selling out, or both. I’ll take Bill

and yes man, cams below average but I think he has potential to snap off some good ones, and last year was just as much an anomaly as 15-1.

don’t wanna whore out the values/team for one more ring. Like the challenge of rebuilding for two, three more.

 

[‘Mondre]

Why you here all of a sudden rookie?

Uh oh it’s gettin dark out.... I’ll be on me way now...

 

[Deus Irae]

you said the word politics first in an earlier post, not me. You sound cool pretending to be above it tho.

saw this chart saying something like qb is around 20% of a teams cumulative success, need to find it. Its more likely than not to be the deal breaker, we get it. My point is..... put one on the pedestal and make him untouchable ( Brady), do the same for the rest... speaking on “intangibles/character” AND stats. And just cause others make mvp = best qb, doesn’t mean you have to parrot that. You’re your own dude, and brought up your own opinion.

Noting a potential political angle is not the same as approving it.


And you seem to struggle understanding my posts, while having "points" which are both silly and strawmen.

 

[‘Mondre]

Noting a potential political angle is not the same as approving it.


And you seem to struggle understanding my posts, while having "points" which are both silly and strawmen.

Saying you’re apolitical is... a political thing to do.

believe me I get your points...

20 spoiled years, now ungrateful... rushing Mac, not seeing the potential of the mechanics change. I’m excited for both qbs.

he’s in between ‘15 and ‘20. That’s it. That’s what I’m saying.

additionally, his working on his mechanics should be heralded here as a good thing, but...

 

[Jangles]

I say the same thing every year about my golf game

Like him I also still suck despite working on it

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Fair points, I just actually believe in the “nobody’s above the team” stuff. I would’ve let Brady go back in ‘17, be better for him, us, and Bill too. It was becoming toxic. He wanted weapons, Bill either thought it was too late or selling out, or both. I’ll take Bill

and yes man, cams below average but I think he has potential to snap off some good ones, and last year was just as much an anomaly as 15-1.

don’t wanna whore out the values/team for one more ring. Like the challenge of rebuilding for two, three more.

'17-'19 might be best thought of as "No, mommy and daddy aren't fighting, we are just having differences of opinion and those mean reporters blew it out of proportion. But whatever happens, we want all our fan boys and girls to remember we'll always love you." It really was like being the kids of super straight laced divorcing parents -- not like some trailer park couple in Green Bay doing the equivalent of smashing up a car with a golf club, because the one thing that mommy and daddy always cooperated on was shielding the kids (and the neighbors) from information that neighbors could use against them and the kids could be hurt by.

Brady's and the Pats' interests just diverged. Brady just eventually decided that the hits he kept taking to the ego (there's your "diva" reasoning, I guess,) were too much, at least looking back through the filter of "football's fun again" etc. The team kept thinking he's going to be gone eventually, and could not afford both the Elite QB - even at a steep discount - and targets for him to throw to. Whether or not they meant to lose him, it was the best thing that could happen to him, in terms of weapons. Also I'm sure the climate down there must be better for his joints

At first, they thought they had the successor teed up, just ready for Tom to decline. Trouble is, Tom didn't want to decline yet. So for the first time, he saw them really thinking about the post-Brady future, regardless of how well he played. They really were high on Jimmy G, and lots of fans were too. I don't think I know any inside scoop, but whatever transpired, nobody acted like it was anything but irreconcilable differences. I don't think anybody did or said anything that made that a bitter divorce (but like everybody, I will studiously hang on the Foxborough Handshake after TB visits this year. I know it's dumb but fans gonna fan.)

But Brady's irrelevant to the Cam situation. I don't care that Cam is eccentric in many ways, I sort of care that the team reportedly really does follow his leadership. I don't actually know why. "His men would follow him anywhere -- not because they thought they would be led to victory, but out of a sort of morbid curiosity such as one finds at train wrecks and natural disasters..." I mainly just care that we have a good QB, and that if Cam is still not one, then the rookie is. (Because Hoyer is just Cam without the upside, and if there is anything to Stidham, by this point, I would be shocked.)

Anyway who knows. Welcome to open competition for QB in New England. Weird feeling.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Saying you’re apolitical is... a political thing to do.

believe me I get your points...

20 spoiled years, now ungrateful... rushing Mac, not seeing the potential of the mechanics change. I’m excited for both qbs.

he’s in between ‘15 and ‘20. That’s it. That’s what I’m saying.

additionally, his working on his mechanics should be heralded here as a good thing, but...

You don't know where he is. He might be between 2020 and whatever's worse than 2020. It's nice to have reports of rebuilt body parts and rebuilt fundamentals, but if it ain't broke, you don't rebuild it.

Agree with you that I'd love to hear how you can apolitically say that it might be politics that Cam Newton won the MVP in 2015. The statement being made, I'd love to hear what political factors came into play, but there is a ban on talking politics on the board. You could probably be kicked out of here for celebrating victory over the axis in World War II. You know, good people on both sides.

 

[moosekill]

Anyone who says Cam didn’t suck during the second half of the year shouldn’t be allowed to post on this board.