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Cam Newton: "It's really put-up or shut-up time"

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Sep 12th

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jimnance

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This is like playing Texas Hold Em, going all-in with pocket 5s against pocket Aces, and arguing you’re right if you get incredibly lucky despite having big odds against you.

Of course Bill wasn’t right…replacing the still productive GOAT with a washed-up veteran and then playing the lottery on a mid-first round QB? Those options are available to teams any time. There was no master plan/ wise guy knowledge about a special skilled QB or trade target. This was all just some kind of bluff or point being made with no actual strategy at QB.

Anyone outside New England understands this…it’s not even a debate. The best Bill will get for an excuse is he just miscalculated on Brady’s remaining production; the truth is it may have been about more than that…a coach who prioritized his personal preference to move on from Brady over the best interest of the franchise.
I usually disagree with most of your takes on Belichick. I have a hard time bashing either Belichick or Brady-I'm just grateful for all theyve done. Nothing thats happened has made me lose one ounce of respect for either.
And none of us really knows for sure all the reasons this happened.
But Bill is in charge. Just as I hold Tom accountable for what happens on the field,I hold Bill accountable for running the team.
So I agree with you on this- Bill f'd up, plain and simple.
By 2020 it was probably too late. But there was plenty he couldve done prior to that to salvage losing Brady.
He should've learned by his miscalculation of how well Brady would play beyond 40, when he drafted Jimmy G- a couple years too early.
Theres no bigger fan of Belichick on this board than me-going back to the Milloy thing- which I was one of a very few that agreed w. Bill 100% from the getgo.
But in this case,Bill f'd up.
 

sb1

Pro Bowl Player
I usually disagree with most of your takes on Belichick. I have a hard time bashing either Belichick or Brady-I'm just grateful for all theyve done. Nothing thats happened has made me lose one ounce of respect for either.
And none of us really knows for sure all the reasons this happened.
But Bill is in charge. Just as I hold Tom accountable for what happens on the field,I hold Bill accountable for running the team.
So I agree with you on this- Bill f'd up, plain and simple.
By 2020 it was probably too late. But there was plenty he couldve done prior to that to salvage losing Brady.
He should've learned by his miscalculation of how well Brady would play beyond 40, when he drafted Jimmy G- a couple years too early.
Theres no bigger fan of Belichick on this board than me-going back to the Milloy thing- which I was one of a very few that agreed w. Bill 100% from the getgo.
But in this case,Bill f'd up.
It was Brady's call that he was outta here but I will always believe the Butler benching pushed TB past the the point of no return in NE. Gronk too.

Grady Little was fired by the Red Sox for something less egregious than that decision.
 

Sicilian

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
I will always believe the Butler benching pushed TB past the the point of no return in NE. Gronk too.

Grady Little was fired by the Red Sox for something less egregious than that decision.

If Grady Little had won five WS titles before making that decision, he'd get a pass too. And that pass would have been justified if he'd won a sixth the very next year.
 

jimnance

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It was Brady's call that he was outta here but I will always believe the Butler benching pushed TB past the the point of no return in NE. Gronk too.

Grady Little was fired by the Red Sox for something less egregious than that decision.
The Butler benching? That makes no sense. Didnt the Pats win another SB the next year?
C'mon man,theres plenty of other reasons Brady saw staying as untenable, but that sure as hell aint one of em
 

amfootball

In the Starting Line-Up
I usually disagree with most of your takes on Belichick. I have a hard time bashing either Belichick or Brady-I'm just grateful for all theyve done. Nothing thats happened has made me lose one ounce of respect for either.
And none of us really knows for sure all the reasons this happened.
But Bill is in charge. Just as I hold Tom accountable for what happens on the field,I hold Bill accountable for running the team.
So I agree with you on this- Bill f'd up, plain and simple.
By 2020 it was probably too late. But there was plenty he couldve done prior to that to salvage losing Brady.
He should've learned by his miscalculation of how well Brady would play beyond 40, when he drafted Jimmy G- a couple years too early.
Theres no bigger fan of Belichick on this board than me-going back to the Milloy thing- which I was one of a very few that agreed w. Bill 100% from the getgo.
But in this case,Bill f'd up.
Think about this. Jimmy was drafted 7 years ago. Brady is STILL playing and his team is favored to go back to the SB. Jimmy could be a back up as soon as this season.
 

203Pat

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
A thread about the Cam Newton and we’re talking about Tom Brady. Cool.

In fact, we have been since pages 1, 2, & 3.

Got things started with a couple troll posts about the “Patriot Way” being dead and it’s been downhill from there.

All of this related to Cam Newton’s upcoming season, how?
"If you don't talk about what I want to talk about or think the way I think then you are wrong."
 

moosekill

In the Starting Line-Up
I usually disagree with most of your takes on Belichick. I have a hard time bashing either Belichick or Brady-I'm just grateful for all theyve done. Nothing thats happened has made me lose one ounce of respect for either.
And none of us really knows for sure all the reasons this happened.
But Bill is in charge. Just as I hold Tom accountable for what happens on the field,I hold Bill accountable for running the team.
So I agree with you on this- Bill f'd up, plain and simple.
By 2020 it was probably too late. But there was plenty he couldve done prior to that to salvage losing Brady.
He should've learned by his miscalculation of how well Brady would play beyond 40, when he drafted Jimmy G- a couple years too early.
Theres no bigger fan of Belichick on this board than me-going back to the Milloy thing- which I was one of a very few that agreed w. Bill 100% from the getgo.
But in this case,Bill f'd up.
Hind sight is 20/20. Betting that a 40 year old nfl qb is going to stay relatively healthy and continue to play at the highest level and even want to continue playing for the next three years, let alone for 5 years, is a bet that has paid off once in the history of the nfl. Obviously Brady has continued to do it so far, and in year one of Bill's decision, Brady's team did better than the Patriots did. There is no way of knowing if the Patriots would have won the superbowl last year if they had kept Tom. If they had kept him, and then didn't win, we would be in a worse situation this season then we are.
 

203Pat

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Hind sight is 20/20. Betting that a 40 year old nfl qb is going to stay relatively healthy and continue to play at the highest level and even want to continue playing for the next three years, let alone for 5 years, is a bet that has paid off once in the history of the nfl. Obviously Brady has continued to do it so far, and in year one of Bill's decision, Brady's team did better than the Patriots did. There is no way of knowing if the Patriots would have won the superbowl last year if they had kept Tom. If they had kept him, and then didn't win, we would be in a worse situation this season then we are.
So having a proven QB instead of an unproven and a bad QB would put us in a worse situation this year?
 

jimnance

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Hind sight is 20/20. Betting that a 40 year old nfl qb is going to stay relatively healthy and continue to play at the highest level and even want to continue playing for the next three years, let alone for 5 years, is a bet that has paid off once in the history of the nfl. Obviously Brady has continued to do it so far, and in year one of Bill's decision, Brady's team did better than the Patriots did. There is no way of knowing if the Patriots would have won the superbowl last year if they had kept Tom. If they had kept him, and then didn't win, we would be in a worse situation this season then we are.
What Bill did or didnt do is understandable. Logical. So was the 4th and 2 vs. the Colts. But both were still the wrong decisions. He's made damn few wrong decisions in NE and a helluva lotta right ones. Just like Brady. Theyre both still the GOATs.
But it is what it is. Theres no use beating a dead horse. Im over it. I'll pull for TB and Gronk long as theyre not playing the Pats.
But Im a Pats fan 1st and foremost and theres nobody I want coaching them besides Bill.
 

sb1

Pro Bowl Player
The Butler benching? That makes no sense. Didnt the Pats win another SB the next year?
C'mon man,theres plenty of other reasons Brady saw staying as untenable, but that sure as hell aint one of em
I think it was. Brady is close to BB. He knows the real reason why the benching happened. He knew it wasted his SB game, one of the greatest championship performances we'll ever see in our lifetime in any sport that will never get the credit that it deserves, and probably started to think was this really worth it? And I think that's exactly why there was rumors about Gronk retiring after the game. Winning a SB is hard. Yes they won another one but without hindsight there's no guarantee they were ever going to get back to one. That's why you don't throw them away like Bill basically did.

It wasn't THE reason why he left but it was the beginning of the end IMO.
 
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50-yard-line

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
I think it was. Brady is close to BB. He knows the real reason why the benching happened. He knew it wasted his SB game, one of the greatest championship performances we'll ever see in our lifetime in any sport that will never get the credit that it deserves, and probably started to think was this really worth it? And I think that's exactly why there was rumors about Gronk retiring after the game. Winning a SB is hard. Yes they won another one but without hindsight there's no guarantee they were ever going to get back to one. That's why you don't throw them away like Bill basically did.

It wasn't THE reason why he left but it was the beginning of the end IMO.
I was screaming at the TV, too, but I think it's important to note that Butler kinda sucked that year.
 

jdlboot14

Practice Squad Player
why are we talking about Tom & Bill on this thread? It's over, but it will only take a few years after Tom retires that things will go back into nostalgia mode, and it will all be about the golden years of Pats dynasty.

onto Cam - he's the most anti-Brady QB they could have possibly gone with. I can't imagine they want to waste much time with this quasi RPO offense with an old, injured guy who can't throw. If they wanted to stick with that, they would have drafted or signed one of the many "mobile" QBs. Picking Mac gives a clear indication of where they are heading, so the only question is - does Hoyer make a better bridge to Mac than Cam? I expect Cam to obviously suck by week 3. Will BB carry 4 QB's until then, or is Stid gone before week 1?
 

203Pat

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
why are we talking about Tom & Bill on this thread? It's over, but it will only take a few years after Tom retires that things will go back into nostalgia mode, and it will all be about the golden years of Pats dynasty.

onto Cam - he's the most anti-Brady QB they could have possibly gone with. I can't imagine they want to waste much time with this quasi RPO offense with an old, injured guy who can't throw. If they wanted to stick with that, they would have drafted or signed one of the many "mobile" QBs. Picking Mac gives a clear indication of where they are heading, so the only question is - does Hoyer make a better bridge to Mac than Cam? I expect Cam to obviously suck by week 3. Will BB carry 4 QB's until then, or is Stid gone before week 1?
"Why are we taking about Brady? Now on to Cam so I can make an immediate Brady comparison."
 

sb1

Pro Bowl Player
why are we talking about Tom & Bill on this thread? It's over, but it will only take a few years after Tom retires that things will go back into nostalgia mode, and it will all be about the golden years of Pats dynasty.

onto Cam - he's the most anti-Brady QB they could have possibly gone with. I can't imagine they want to waste much time with this quasi RPO offense with an old, injured guy who can't throw. If they wanted to stick with that, they would have drafted or signed one of the many "mobile" QBs. Picking Mac gives a clear indication of where they are heading, so the only question is - does Hoyer make a better bridge to Mac than Cam?
Brian Hoyer Takes Worst Sack Possible & Thinks He Has a Timeout | NFL Week 4 - YouTube

Any questions?
 

jdlboot14

Practice Squad Player
This means nothing. He's made a lot of stupid plays, but has lasted over 10 years. This is the 3rd time BB has brought him back. He's not here to play much, he's here to mentor. But reports in mini-camp were that he was sharp and decisive. You're going to compare a couple rusty moves by Hoyer in his one game, to a season full of ineptitude by Cam?? Like I said, who at least KNOWs how to run this system in order to be a bridge for Mac? That's what I'm considering - and it ain't Cam.
 

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
I think it was. Brady is close to BB. He knows the real reason why the benching happened. He knew it wasted his SB game, one of the greatest championship performances we'll ever see in our lifetime in any sport that will never get the credit that it deserves, and probably started to think was this really worth it? And I think that's exactly why there was rumors about Gronk retiring after the game. Winning a SB is hard. Yes they won another one but without hindsight there's no guarantee they were ever going to get back to one. That's why you don't throw them away like Bill basically did.

It wasn't THE reason why he left but it was the beginning of the end IMO.

Unquestionably, if not earlier that season when Brady learned that Bill was just as amenable to trading him as he was to trading Grop.
 

moosekill

In the Starting Line-Up
So having a proven QB instead of an unproven and a bad QB would put us in a worse situation this year?
No we still wouldn’t have the supporting cast around Brady, as we saw two years ago, having an amazing Qb without a supporting cast means having a mediocre team. With a qb that has at most 3 years left. At some point Brady will be gone, could the Patriots have rebuilt in time to make this a super bowl caliber team? Not sure, but would Brady have stayed around for a couple years of rebuilding, no way.
 

moosekill

In the Starting Line-Up
This really isn’t hard. You argue Tom left because the Patriots didn’t have a team around him. Ok if you accept that fact, then what the Patriots did was use Brady’s $30 million which they cleared out last year, to restock this years team. Yes they would probably be better this year with Brady as QB, except they wouldn’t have been able to invest his salary in free agents so they would still be in more or less the same situation they were in two years ago.
 

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