Cam Newton: "It's really put-up or shut-up time"

[One-If-By-Sea]

Did youse guys forget there is a Tom Brady forum? This is the Cam put-up or shut-up thread. This will be the Pats 2nd season without Tom. We all love him, but we love the Pats too. Let's talk about the Pats here, and about Tom in the Tom Brady forum.

 

[203Pat]

Probably true - but it's also true that in a weird way, the Pats lucked into the money they had to build the roster this year (the opt-outs) in addition to using the money they would have had to pay Brady. That 2019 team was played out with older vets, their second/third contract guys poached, crappy draft positions made worse by stolen picks and by getting more expensive vet players for picks to extend the dynasty.

So I'm not sure how much they might have been able to better the roster in time for Brady. Particularly given what happened with Gordon and AB and Sanu, and my serious doubts that Gronk would have come back to play in New England.

The 2019 team was a culmination of bad drafting and roster moves. The whole "Bill picks at the end of the draft" stuff is nonsense. There are good players there we just haven't been getting many late in round one. Bill didn't bother to replace Gronk. Just straight up put practice squad guys out there at TE. There were the desperation moves like gambling on AB and wasting a 2nd on Sanu. 2020 wasn't just a one off thing it was a snowball effect where the snowball (hopefully) made it to the bottom of the hill.

 

[captain stone]

Probably true - but it's also true that in a weird way, the Pats lucked into the money they had to build the roster this year (the opt-outs) in addition to using the money they would have had to pay Brady. That 2019 team was played out with older vets, their second/third contract guys poached, crappy draft positions made worse by stolen picks and by getting more expensive vet players for picks to extend the dynasty.

Don't forget the Abysmal drafting with the picks they did have and the still-available talent that was ignored.

More than anything else, this is the reason why TB is no longer the QB of the NEP.

 

[50-yard-line]

The 2019 team was a culmination of bad drafting and roster moves. The whole "Bill picks at the end of the draft" stuff is nonsense. There are good players there we just haven't been getting many late in round one. Bill didn't bother to replace Gronk. Just straight up put practice squad guys out there at TE. There were the desperation moves like gambling on AB and wasting a 2nd on Sanu. 2020 wasn't just a one off thing it was a snowball effect where the snowball (hopefully) made it to the bottom of the hill.

I can agree on some of your points, while still recalling 2015, 17, and 18 (and almost 16). I'll take it.

 

[Pats2000]

Probably true - but it's also true that in a weird way, the Pats lucked into the money they had to build the roster this year (the opt-outs) in addition to using the money they would have had to pay Brady. That 2019 team was played out with older vets, their second/third contract guys poached, crappy draft positions made worse by stolen picks and by getting more expensive vet players for picks to extend the dynasty.

So I'm not sure how much they might have been able to better the roster in time for Brady. Particularly given what happened with Gordon and AB and Sanu, and my serious doubts that Gronk would have come back to play in New England.

It's hard to argue with the success the Pats have had over the years, the one gripe I think we all have is the horrendous drafting when it comes to Receivers. Other than that, it's been a storied run. If BB and team had been better at drafting receivers, Brady woudl probably still be here.

But he's not and I am personally excited to see Mac play at some point this season.

 

[‘Mondre]

Who is flattering themselves? I am not comparing Tampa vs Boston as cities. The dingus who I responded to said Brady left for more fame to which I responded about the media markets. I lived down it Tampa for almost a decade. It is a podunk town as far as a national scale goes. Yes it may snow in Boston and yes it may not be New York or LA media marketwise but it is a significantly bigger market than Tampa, Florida.

We never should have "parted ways" with Brady. Bill should have done a better job drafting and building the roster. It is pretty evident Brady can still play at a very high level and it is pretty obvious Brady has done a significantly better job than Bill has at his job since 2017 so tell me why it is Brady who should have been ridden out of town?

I mean bro come on they put a super team around him. Just accept it. Eli would’ve done damage with that roster.

 

[PatsWSB47]

I mean bro come on they put a super team around him. Just accept it. Eli would’ve done damage with that roster.

That does not take away what Brady did with them. We can speculate about this guy or that guy or another guy. A team with a load of talent with little or no knowledge of how to win is just a lot of talent. Talent helps but it doesnt quarentee a Lombardi. The talent needed the right culture. Its Brady who brought that to them.

 

[‘Mondre]

That does not take away what Brady did with them. We can speculate about this guy or that guy or another guy. A team with a load of talent with little or no knowledge of how to win is just a lot of talent. Talent helps but it doesnt quarentee a Lombardi. The talent needed the right culture. Its Brady who brought that to them.

DID!

 

[sb1]

It's hard to argue with the success the Pats have had over the years, the one gripe I think we all have is the horrendous drafting when it comes to Receivers. Other than that, it's been a storied run. If BB and team had been better at drafting receivers, Brady woudl probably still be here.

But he's not and I am personally excited to see Mac play at some point this season.

If I'm Bill I have Mac start week 4. He's our first rounder and the future. He's already played in plenty of big games under the national spotlight. No reason to baby the guy. He's going up against one of the best pass rushes he will see this season. Why not see how he can handle it right now? I don't need to see Brady and the Bucs shut the Pats out in our house with Cam playing. Even if the Patriots still lose the game with Mac starting, what an opportunity to learn from facing the best.

Hopefully that's moot anyway and he's already our starter.

 

[sb1]

That does not take away what Brady did with them. We can speculate about this guy or that guy or another guy. A team with a load of talent with little or no knowledge of how to win is just a lot of talent. Talent helps but it doesnt quarentee a Lombardi. The talent needed the right culture. Its Brady who brought that to them.

Think the entire roster re-signs with the team after a championship if Eli was the QB? LOL

 

[sb1]

Don't forget the Abysmal drafting with the picks they did have and the still-available talent that was ignored.

More than anything else, this is the reason why TB is no longer the QB of the NEP.

Brady is a first ballot HOF lock.

Bill is not a first ballot lock, IMO.

 

[Sicilian]

Brady is a first ballot HOF lock.

Bill is not a first ballot lock, IMO.

That's absurd. Bill is getting into the HoF the minute he's eligible. He already has a gameplan in the hall already, and then added the third most wins (at least) all time and six Super Bowls. He's 100% a first ballot lock.

 

[sb1]

That's absurd. Bill is getting into the HoF the minute he's eligible. He already has a gameplan in the hall already, and then added the third most wins (at least) all time and six Super Bowls. He's 100% a first ballot lock.

Agreed about his track record, but unfortunately there very likely are voters who won't see it that way. Fair or not, Spygate will be a problem. Bill also being linked to his drafting record which is known to be subpar in recent years, and also Bill's track record as coach without the GOAT QB which is currently under .500. I think Bill is 80% likely to get a first ballot nod but that's a long way off from the lock Brady is - assuming something crazy doesn't happen with Brady like a PED bust.

 

[Sicilian]

Agreed about his track record, but unfortunately there very likely are voters who won't see it that way. Fair or not, Spygate will be a problem. Bill also being linked to his drafting record which is known to be subpar in recent years, and also Bill's track record as coach without the GOAT QB which is currently under .500. I think Bill is 80% likely to get a first ballot nod but that's a long way off from the lock Brady is - assuming something crazy doesn't happen with Brady like a PED bust.

I really doubt that HoF voters factor in draft record when casting their votes, especially when that draft record resulted in the win/loss record that BB accumulated. What great draft record did Don Shula have? Chuck Noll? Bill Walsh? And if you consider his drafts and team building THAT bad (which they're not), it actually strengthens his case to get in as a COACH.

If they're also factoring Brady in, they need to go back and look at every other HoF coach and subtract any wins they had with their best QB (which won't look good for any of them). So basically you're saying Spygate is going to cost him the first ballot, and I just don't think enough football people actually care about that enough to deny him that honor.

 

[203Pat]

I mean bro come on they put a super team around him. Just accept it. Eli would’ve done damage with that roster.

This is such revisionist nonsense. They added Gronk who was good down the stretch but nowhere near the Gronk of old and AB who was slowly worked in and essentially the third option most of the year. Fournette was scrap heap guy who didn't do much until the playoffs (and was also free for anyone to sign). This wasn't Kevin Durant, Kyrie, and Harden conspiring to play together. This was a 7-9 team the prior year with a coach and GM who were in all likelihood going to get canned had Brady not came to town.

It wasn't just Brady's play on the field that helped them win it was the fact they had a real leader. Bruce Arians is a buffoon. It was Brady who gave this group of losers the belief they could go on the road and beat two hall of fame quarterbacks in the playoffs then another in the super bowl.

“All week, he was making us believe we could win,” running back Leonard Fournette explained. “He was texting us at 11 o’clock at night, ‘We will win this game.’”
“Knowing his resume, understanding why he wins … He made us believe,” Fournette said.

“Tom’s the GOAT,” Scotty Miller said on a postgame Zoom call. “Last year I think we ended 7-9 and right now we’re heading to the Super Bowl. So that just tells you. Obviously we’ve added other stuff too and gotten better, but he’s at the helm. He’s our leader and he’s probably the biggest reason we are where we are.
“He’s a great player, great leader. Makes it easier for us to all get behind him and follow him. Just with his composure. He’s been here before. He’s been in these big moments. We know he’s going to get it done. Obviously a couple picks, but when it’s all on the line he’s going to make a play.”



There are another dozen quotes out there like this from his Bucs teammates. This was a pathetic franchise, in a pathetic sports town. This was far from Lebron calling his buddies to form a super team.

 

[amfootball]

This is such revisionist nonsense. They added Gronk who was good down the stretch but nowhere near the Gronk of old and AB who was slowly worked in and essentially the third option most of the year. Fournette was scrap heap guy who didn't do much until the playoffs (and was also free for anyone to sign). This wasn't Kevin Durant, Kyrie, and Harden conspiring to play together. This was a 7-9 team the prior year with a coach and GM who were in all likelihood going to get canned had Brady not came to town.

It wasn't just Brady's play on the field that helped them win it was the fact they had a real leader. Bruce Arians is a buffoon. It was Brady who gave this group of losers the belief they could go on the road and beat two hall of fame quarterbacks in the playoffs then another in the super bowl.

“All week, he was making us believe we could win,” running back Leonard Fournette explained. “He was texting us at 11 o’clock at night, ‘We will win this game.’”
“Knowing his resume, understanding why he wins … He made us believe,” Fournette said.

“Tom’s the GOAT,” Scotty Miller said on a postgame Zoom call. “Last year I think we ended 7-9 and right now we’re heading to the Super Bowl. So that just tells you. Obviously we’ve added other stuff too and gotten better, but he’s at the helm. He’s our leader and he’s probably the biggest reason we are where we are.
“He’s a great player, great leader. Makes it easier for us to all get behind him and follow him. Just with his composure. He’s been here before. He’s been in these big moments. We know he’s going to get it done. Obviously a couple picks, but when it’s all on the line he’s going to make a play.”



There are another dozen quotes out there like this from his Bucs teammates. This was a pathetic franchise, in a pathetic sports town. This was far from Lebron calling his buddies to form a super team.

Great post. Everyone in that organization from the owner to the GM to Arians credited Brady for turning them into champions. If it was just about talent then the Bucs would have never been 7-9 the year prior with basically the same roster. I think it was Dan Orlosvky that said Brady is the "biggest believer in" in all of sports. He is a transformative player like no other in team sports. It has always been his biggest and most important attribute and the key to all of our winning teams. For so many years with us he took junk offensive skill players deep into the playoffs or to the Lombardi.

 

[‘Mondre]

This is such revisionist nonsense. They added Gronk who was good down the stretch but nowhere near the Gronk of old and AB who was slowly worked in and essentially the third option most of the year. Fournette was scrap heap guy who didn't do much until the playoffs (and was also free for anyone to sign). This wasn't Kevin Durant, Kyrie, and Harden conspiring to play together. This was a 7-9 team the prior year with a coach and GM who were in all likelihood going to get canned had Brady not came to town.

It wasn't just Brady's play on the field that helped them win it was the fact they had a real leader. Bruce Arians is a buffoon. It was Brady who gave this group of losers the belief they could go on the road and beat two hall of fame quarterbacks in the playoffs then another in the super bowl.

“All week, he was making us believe we could win,” running back Leonard Fournette explained. “He was texting us at 11 o’clock at night, ‘We will win this game.’”
“Knowing his resume, understanding why he wins … He made us believe,” Fournette said.

“Tom’s the GOAT,” Scotty Miller said on a postgame Zoom call. “Last year I think we ended 7-9 and right now we’re heading to the Super Bowl. So that just tells you. Obviously we’ve added other stuff too and gotten better, but he’s at the helm. He’s our leader and he’s probably the biggest reason we are where we are.
“He’s a great player, great leader. Makes it easier for us to all get behind him and follow him. Just with his composure. He’s been here before. He’s been in these big moments. We know he’s going to get it done. Obviously a couple picks, but when it’s all on the line he’s going to make a play.”



There are another dozen quotes out there like this from his Bucs teammates. This was a pathetic franchise, in a pathetic sports town. This was far from Lebron calling his buddies to form a super team.

They were top of the power rankings from week one, and the center of the nfl universe, the predominant topic in the media (also here), etc.

but regardless of whether or not they were that good (many felt even with Winston they were a qb away from being good), the main point is that cam cost us $1m, and we weren’t going to do anything even with Brady anyway. And if he sucks we can...... get a high pick for his replacement.

Strategy.

if Brady retires or falls behind macs/Cams production or retires before we build a playoff-worthy roster, then yes Bill is right.

 

[‘Mondre]

Great post. Everyone in that organization from the owner to the GM to Arians credited Brady for turning them into champions. If it was just about talent then the Bucs would have never been 7-9 the year prior with basically the same roster. I think it was Dan Orlosvky that said Brady is the "biggest believer in" in all of sports. He is a transformative player like no other in team sports. It has always been his biggest and most important attribute and the key to all of our winning teams. For so many years with us he took junk offensive skill players deep into the playoffs or to the Lombardi.

 

[amfootball]

They were top of the power rankings from week one, and the center of the nfl universe, the predominant topic in the media (also here), etc.

but regardless of whether or not they were that good (many felt even with Winston they were a qb away from being good), the main point is that cam cost us $1m, and we weren’t going to do anything even with Brady anyway. And if he sucks we can...... get a high pick for his replacement.

Strategy.

if Brady retires or falls behind macs/Cams production or retires before we build a playoff-worthy roster, then yes Bill is right.

This is such a ridiculous bad take.

Moving on from Brady without a viable replacement is where Bill screwed up royally and of course in year one literally, Brady was hoisting the Lombardi with a new team, new conference, no off-season due to Covid with a clown as his HC.

Do you care to look up where Arians was ranked in the power rankings as a HC prior to Brady? Because he was at #8 this year.

 

[sb1]

I really doubt that HoF voters factor in draft record when casting their votes, especially when that draft record resulted in the win/loss record that BB accumulated. What great draft record did Don Shula have? Chuck Noll? Bill Walsh? And if you consider his drafts and team building THAT bad (which they're not), it actually strengthens his case to get in as a COACH.

If they're also factoring Brady in, they need to go back and look at every other HoF coach and subtract any wins they had with their best QB (which won't look good for any of them). So basically you're saying Spygate is going to cost him the first ballot, and I just don't think enough football people actually care about that enough to deny him that honor.

Most HOF voters are media. One guy is Borges and I'm sure he will be happy to say no for Bill. Another guy is a voter from Pitt and already said in the past he is not voting for Belichick for the HOF because of spygate. It sucks but it is what it is. I also think people are paying a lot of attention now to Bill's track record without Brady but hopefully in a year or two that is moot when Bill rebuilds this team back to the playoffs and into contention.

I think he does get in on the first ballot but I'm sure those guys are not the only ones who will say no.