Business Insider "BB's Drafting of DBs Is Killing The Pats"

[Snake Eyes]

Heh. Says the one whining about manners.

"Maybe you shouldn't go on the internet without a translator"

This is what he said to me. Don't start none, won't be none.

 

[Sicilian]

"Maybe you shouldn't go on the internet without a translator"

This is what he said to me. Don't start none, won't be none.

Yeah, in response to this:

Nice try. If you don't think TFB has been a HUGE part of their success you probably shouldn't go outside without a helmet.

Don't start none indeed.

 

[Danger Zone]

5 times in Belichick's tenure he has picked dead last or second to last.

Almost every year we make it a couple of rounds into the Playoffs and end up drafting behind 4/5ths of the rest of the NFL.

For those of you that play fantasy football.. you tell me what you think it would do to your draft options had you picked in the Patriots draft position year after year.

This doesn't excuse everything, Bill has certainly made mistakes, but his drafting position has been the worst of any team during his time with us. It would have a real affect on anyone.

As does the fact that for every time, drafting is still a crapshoot, to mention nothing of statistical outliers.

The chances for even top pick players to become regular starters is less than 60% and it goes dramatically down by round after that. That means every team and every GM has a LOT of fail.

 

[bagwell368]

5 times in Belichick's tenure he has picked dead last or second to last.

Almost every year we make it a couple of rounds into the Playoffs and end up drafting behind 4/5ths of the rest of the NFL.

For those of you that play fantasy football.. you tell me what you think it would do to your draft options had you picked in the Patriots draft position year after year.

This doesn't excuse everything, Bill has certainly made mistakes, but his drafting position has been the worst of any team during his time with us. It would have a real affect on anyone.

As does the fact that for every time, drafting is still a crapshoot, to mention nothing of statistical outliers.

The chances for even top pick players to become regular starters is less than 60% and it goes dramatically down by round after that. That means every team and every GM has a LOT of fail.

I'm going to respond, and then go on a semi-rant not at all aimed at you.

If drafting was the only way to stock a team, than evaluating just the draft would make a good deal of sense. However, BB has made extensive use of signing FA's, UDFA's, and making trades.

I've seen articles claiming that the 2007 draft was a bust, but they do not consider the trades to obtain Moss and Welker, adding their value to that draft makes it anything but a failure.

Most if not all Coaches around the NFL are on much less firm ground than BB is here. Therefore many of these Coaches will hold picks on the roster for years - well after the time it's clear that they can't help, to avoid the negative PR of cutting them. BB's cutting of medium/high picks has to be right at the top of the league. All BB cares is that if someone on the 90 man is better than someone else, than he'll keep the better player.

I've seen articles the past 3 years that I don't have the URL's for that say BB is the best GM since he started with the Pats when everything is considered.

Another factor is that BB the trader has often added to his haul of picks - say from 6 to 9, with one forward into the next year. Those that want to burn BB will say - see? After 3 years he only has two guys left from 11 picks. Well, the amount of room available on a team's roster with 17-2 or a 14-4 record is limited, and if they don't count the 3 UDFA's and 3 FA's that were brought in as well - not to mention not spending money on older players that BB has walked away from (his record here is almost impossibly great).

Do I wish more of his 2nd rounders were still here and playing at a high leve - sure - but - careful of the agenda/carelessness of those that claim BB is anything other than stellar as a GM overall.

 

[goheels22002]

I'm going to respond, and then go on a semi-rant not at all aimed at you.

If drafting was the only way to stock a team, than evaluating just the draft would make a good deal of sense. However, BB has made extensive use of signing FA's, UDFA's, and making trades.

I've seen articles claiming that the 2007 draft was a bust, but they do not consider the trades to obtain Moss and Welker, adding their value to that draft makes it anything but a failure.

Most if not all Coaches around the NFL are on much less firm ground than BB is here. Therefore many of these Coaches will hold picks on the roster for years - well after the time it's clear that they can't help, to avoid the negative PR of cutting them. BB's cutting of medium/high picks has to be right at the top of the league. All BB cares is that if someone on the 90 man is better than someone else, than he'll keep the better player.

I've seen articles the past 3 years that I don't have the URL's for that say BB is the best GM since he started with the Pats when everything is considered.

Another factor is that BB the trader has often added to his haul of picks - say from 6 to 9, with one forward into the next year. Those that want to burn BB will say - see? After 3 years he only has two guys left from 11 picks. Well, the amount of room available on a team's roster with 17-2 or a 14-4 record is limited, and if they don't count the 3 UDFA's and 3 FA's that were brought in as well - not to mention not spending money on older players that BB has walked away from (his record here is almost impossibly great).

Do I wish more of his 2nd rounders were still here and playing at a high leve - sure - but - careful of the agenda/carelessness of those that claim BB is anything other than stellar as a GM overall.

Ordway, you fat b#$@*%d! It's you!

Glenn Ordway was a broken record on the importance of including free agent pickups in trade for draft selections when determining whether a specific year's draft was a success or failure.

I agree. 2007 was tremendous success when you consider Moss and Welker.

The other factor is the coaching. I've expressed my doubts on whether this team can develop players on defense. So many players do not meet their potential and I think coaching is a big deal at this level.

On the offensive line, I think you could give Dante Scarnecchia a Whopper, two Big Macs and two Meat Lovers Pizzas and he'd coach 'em up to protect the quarterback. Guys like Stephen Neal - a wrestler - and the Teutonic Titan Sebastian Vollmer are exhibits A & B.

Not so much in the secondary. Maybe it's the nature of the position, but the guys they draft come in with skills and experience. So many wash out. Free agents seem to be the best way to stock that particular pond.

2013 is going to be interesting to assess with 10 (I think that's accurate) rookies on the opening day roster. No first rounders. If five of these guys sign a fourth-year contract, this draft will be a success.

The biggest gamble is Collins, in my book. Tremendous physical skills but terrible pedigree.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

so annoying when fans run to that. BB has screwed up plenty of draft picks and deserves flack for them.

So has every other GM in the league. If BB was perfect we'd win the super bowl just about every year, some of you guys seem to expect perfection, all the poster is pointing out is he must be doing something right to have the success he's had. He's not perfect but you're crazy to expect perfection in every aspect.
I see why Felger's show does so well in the ratings, he focuses on what every local team does wrong and does a 4 hour show on one topic, seems he's not alone in doing that.

 

[borg]

5 times in Belichick's tenure he has picked dead last or second to last.

Almost every year we make it a couple of rounds into the Playoffs and end up drafting behind 4/5ths of the rest of the NFL.

For those of you that play fantasy football.. you tell me what you think it would do to your draft options had you picked in the Patriots draft position year after year.

This doesn't excuse everything, Bill has certainly made mistakes, but his drafting position has been the worst of any team during his time with us. It would have a real affect on anyone.

As does the fact that for every time, drafting is still a crapshoot, to mention nothing of statistical outliers.

The chances for even top pick players to become regular starters is less than 60% and it goes dramatically down by round after that. That means every team and every GM has a LOT of fail.

Sorry but you are ignoring the fact that BB used top of the 2nd round picks on 3 whiffs...Chung 34, Butler 41, Dowling 33. To get those picks BB had to maneuver around lots of chips in previous drafts and current drafts to be in a position to be atop the 2nd round to pounce....where he whiffed back to back to back.
Not trying to stir too much up because I like 75% of our first rounders...but BB willingly slid down the first round several times in order to position himself atop of the 2nd. My point....what first rounders were bypassed in order to secure that extra pick in round two.

 

[dales804]

So has every other GM in the league. If BB was perfect we'd win the super bowl just about every year, some of you guys seem to expect perfection, all the poster is pointing out is he must be doing something right to have the success he's had. He's not perfect but you're crazy to expect perfection in every aspect.
I see why Felger's show does so well in the ratings, he focuses on what every local team does wrong and does a 4 hour show on one topic, seems he's not alone in doing that.

The main point, I think, is that the secondary has needed a big improvement for a while and we're still waiting despite major investment into it. Yes, McCourty was a hit, trading for Talib was good, and drafting Dennard helped. But that doesn't erase Butler, Chung, Merriweather, Dowling, Wheatley, or Wilson (all 1st or 2nd rounders).

As for Felger and Mazz, they said exactly that yesterday. They will focus on the negative and critique the local teams rather than tell you why they should or will win a game. It's "more fun" they said.

 

[50-yard-line]

"Maybe you shouldn't go on the internet without a translator"

This is what he said to me. Don't start none, won't be none.

The irony, it burns.

 

[Snake Eyes]

The irony, it burns.

The Patriots hit an absolute jackpot with Brady, they got one of the best QBs of all time with a 6th round pick, that wasn't drafting/evaluating skill nearly as much as it was luck. That luck has turned a LOT of games for them, Brady makes up for a lot of weaknesses elsewhere on the roster.

To ignore that when evaluating the teams personnel moves is pretty foolish.

 

[50-yard-line]

The Patriots hit an absolute jackpot with Brady, they got one of the best QBs of all time with a 6th round pick, that wasn't drafting/evaluating skill nearly as much as it was luck. That luck has turned a LOT of games for them, Brady makes up for a lot of weaknesses elsewhere on the roster.

To ignore that when evaluating the teams personnel moves is pretty foolish.

Well no ****, **** Tracy, as we used to say.

I'm not ignoring anything.

 

[bagwell368]

The main point, I think, is that the secondary has needed a big improvement for a while and we're still waiting despite major investment into it. Yes, McCourty was a hit, trading for Talib was good, and drafting Dennard helped. But that doesn't erase Butler, Chung, Merriweather, Dowling, Wheatley, or Wilson (all 1st or 2nd rounders).

As for Felger and Mazz, they said exactly that yesterday. They will focus on the negative and critique the local teams rather than tell you why they should or will win a game. It's "more fun" they said.

I think that you are one of the folks that would say that a guy that panned 1000 lbs of rocks to get 1 oz of silver is more successful than a guy that panned 1600 lbs of rocks to get 1.3 oz of silver - because he didn't do as much work/passed through as much crap.

BB knows getting players that will work well here is a shot in the dark, in part he mitigates that by having more guys on the roster every season.

Also "rounds" is a poor way to evaluate these picks since we so often pick late in rounds. Also, AFAIK Wilson is a 2nd year player that looks like a good in the box S and a good ST'er. I think you should wait before you anoint him a bust.

Chung played well at first but was hurt and lost a lot of his speed - is that BB's fault?

Merri actually gave pretty good value for his draft slot.

Butler started out well and lost his confidence, and Wheatley didn't do anything much, you could hang those guys on him.

Dowling did have an injury history which is why he wasn't a top 15 pick. BB tossed the dice and lost. Hindsight is always 20-20. Now go find me a GM since Wheatley's draft year that's brought in better players than BB via all routes. I'll wait.

 

[Huckleberry1]

The Patriots hit an absolute jackpot with Brady, they got one of the best QBs of all time with a 6th round pick, that wasn't drafting/evaluating skill nearly as much as it was luck. That luck has turned a LOT of games for them, Brady makes up for a lot of weaknesses elsewhere on the roster.

To ignore that when evaluating the teams personnel moves is pretty foolish.

Pick a great player=luck

Pick a bad player=you suck




The Patriots pick at the bottom of every draft except for those times when Belichick is able to turn picks into high picks, which is really hard to do, and despite the fact that they always pick after most of the rest of the league they remain at the top of it year after year, and it's clearly not due to spending in free agency. they have their share of misses but so does every team, but they are also one of the best drafting team's in the league and a 10 year comprehensive analysis of the entire league showed that they and the ravens are the two top drafting teams in the league. No other team has had the success they have had during the Belichick era and that is the final measure.

 

[50-yard-line]

Pick a great player=luck

Pick a bad player=you suck




The Patriots pick at the bottom of every draft except for those times when Belichick is able to turn picks into high picks, which is really hard to do, and despite the fact that they always pick after most of the rest of the league they remain at the top of it year after year, and it's clearly not due to spending in free agency. they have their share of misses but so does every team, but they are also one of the best drafting team's in the league and a 10 year comprehensive analysis of the entire league showed that they and the ravens are the two top drafting teams in the league. No other team has had the success they have had during the Belichick era and that is the final measure.

Not even San Francisco? That surprises me - they've built a wagon out there.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Not even San Francisco? That surprises me - they've built a wagon out there.

It was done a couple of years ago and ran from 2001-2011 and looked at every pick for every team and the success of those players. The Patriots and Ravens were named the top 2. S.F. has done really well over the past 4-5 years but remember that they sucked (and I like the 49ers) for the early part of that time period. The real challenge for teams is staying on top, and what people seem to forget, but Pioli pointed out a year ago, is that Belichick has done something that few if any GM's are able to do, which is completely overhaul a championship team and never drop out of contention and still challenge for SB's during that rebuild. If the Patriots win another SB with Brady it may well be the first time a team has completely rebuilt around one player and gone on to win it all, there are no remaining members of that 2001 team other than Brady.

Belichick has his misses but the criticism of his drafting is basically cherry picked garbage, and any comprehensive analysis of it in the context of the league as a whole clearly demonstrates that.