Bruce Arians counting his chickens before they hatch (Chandler Jones)

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I like Bruce Arians, and he is a great coach. That said, free agency is summed up with the phrase caveat emptor, buyer beware. Chandler Jones is a great player, but how many times have we seen a guy go to another team and flop, and how many times have we seen Belichick unload a guy who he realized was not as good as advertised? I remember the Minnesota Vikings thumping their chests about getting Randy Moss back in 2010, making similar statements about how their downfield passing game has no completely changed, even before Moss had taken a single snap. I don't think it's a great idea to throw adulation on incoming players who are already expecting a big pay day, and I think it's rather foolish to start talking about long term extensions before seeing if someone fits into a system and culture. Jones has never played in a 3-4 for one thing. Even if he had, though, I can't count the number of times players with tons of talent and proven success have just not fit into a new environment.

Arians: Getting Chandler Jones “cured” our pass rush

 

[gobesmug]

I like Bruce Arians, and he is a great coach. That said, free agency is summed up with the phrase caveat emptor, buyer beware. Chandler Jones is a great player, but how many times have we seen a guy go to another team and flop, and how many times have we seen Belichick unload a guy who he realized was not as good as advertised? I remember the Minnesota Vikings thumping their chests about getting Randy Moss back in 2010, making similar statements about how their downfield passing game has no completely changed, even before Moss had taken a single snap. I don't think it's a great idea to throw adulation on incoming players who are already expecting a big pay day, and I think it's rather foolish to start talking about long term extensions before seeing if someone fits into a system and culture. Jones has never played in a 3-4 for one thing. Even if he had, though, I can't count the number of times players with tons of talent and proven success have just not fit into a new environment.

Arians: Getting Chandler Jones “cured” our pass rush

Perhaps this is all part of BB's master plan. Initiate a trade to a team whose scheme doesn't match Jones skill set, then when he flops, resign him back at a reduced contract the following season. Like the Bengals did with Michael Johnson a few years ago.

 

[Kontradiction]

Chandler, injuries aside, should see a good amount of success in that defense. He won't have the gap responsibilities, among other things, there that he does here. He'll have much more freedom to simply pin his ears back and rush the passer. That said, Jones is someone whose production has been known to tail off, particularly down the stretch. Did he even make the team plane to Denver? We will see if that carries over to Arizona.

 

[FourierSeries]

For some reason, people are overrating the hell out of him now, and claiming that the NE defense will take a step back and that Arizona's will be significantly improved.

Personally, I don't miss him. He was a streaky player. The problem was that his hot streaks never seemed to come when the team needed him most (in the postseason.)

 

[Galeb]

I like Bruce Arians, and he is a great coach. That said, free agency is summed up with the phrase caveat emptor, buyer beware. Chandler Jones is a great player, but how many times have we seen a guy go to another team and flop, and how many times have we seen Belichick unload a guy who he realized was not as good as advertised? I remember the Minnesota Vikings thumping their chests about getting Randy Moss back in 2010, making similar statements about how their downfield passing game has no completely changed, even before Moss had taken a single snap. I don't think it's a great idea to throw adulation on incoming players who are already expecting a big pay day, and I think it's rather foolish to start talking about long term extensions before seeing if someone fits into a system and culture. Jones has never played in a 3-4 for one thing. Even if he had, though, I can't count the number of times players with tons of talent and proven success have just not fit into a new environment.

Arians: Getting Chandler Jones “cured” our pass rush

By "cured", maybe he means smoked.

 

[BobDigital]

Arians is right to say it improved their team. It did.

Losing Chandler Jones hurts us and helps them short term. No ifs ands or butts about it. However we are in a position to absorb the loss well with Sheard and Nink and our depth looks promising.

Jones is a good but not really a dominating player which means you cant afford to pay him the money he is due. Generally you are way better off paying the Von Miller's and JJ Watts 16M a year as oppose to paying Jones 12M a year. Paying the top dollar for a truly dominate player is better than paying big money to a player that is just very good. To paraphrase Felger's puppet 2 pony are never as good as a horse and 2 horses are never as good as a stallion.

 

[Ross12]

Arians is right to say it improved their team. It did.

Losing Chandler Jones hurts us and helps them short term. No ifs ands or butts about it. However we are in a position to absorb the loss well with Sheard and Nink and our depth looks promising.

Jones is a good but not really a dominating player which means you cant afford to pay him the money he is due. Generally you are way better off paying the Von Miller's and JJ Watts 16M a year as oppose to paying Jones 12M a year. Paying the top dollar for a truly dominate player is better than paying big money to a player that is just very good. To paraphrase Felger's puppet 2 pony are never as good as a horse and 2 horses are never as good as a stallion.

But I need to know, are 4 ponies as good as a stallion? What if I could get a fifth pony playing for the veteran minimum?

 

[TBR]

For some reason, people are overrating the hell out of him now, and claiming that the NE defense will take a step back and that Arizona's will be significantly improved.

Personally, I don't miss him. He was a streaky player. The problem was that his hot streaks never seemed to come when the team needed him most (in the postseason.)

Before the most recent playoffs, Von Miller hadn't done much in his 3 post-season games. Then in a contract year, he went on an absolute tear. I was hoping the same might happen for Jones if we kept him.

 

[Pats2000]

I like Bruce Arians, and he is a great coach. That said, free agency is summed up with the phrase caveat emptor, buyer beware. Chandler Jones is a great player, but how many times have we seen a guy go to another team and flop, and how many times have we seen Belichick unload a guy who he realized was not as good as advertised? I remember the Minnesota Vikings thumping their chests about getting Randy Moss back in 2010, making similar statements about how their downfield passing game has no completely changed, even before Moss had taken a single snap. I don't think it's a great idea to throw adulation on incoming players who are already expecting a big pay day, and I think it's rather foolish to start talking about long term extensions before seeing if someone fits into a system and culture. Jones has never played in a 3-4 for one thing. Even if he had, though, I can't count the number of times players with tons of talent and proven success have just not fit into a new environment.

Arians: Getting Chandler Jones “cured” our pass rush

I think the Cardinals are going to be sad when Jones disappears during critical games and moments. He's a great player, but I never really saw him as the game changer. He got his sacks, and he got penetration, but when the game was on the line, it was Jamie Collin, or Hightower, or Butler, or Ninkovich, that were the key cogs in the clutch.

 

[Pats2000]

Before the most recent playoffs, Von Miller hadn't done much in his 3 post-season games. Then in a contract year, he went on an absolute tear. I was hoping the same might happen for Jones if we kept him.

Must have been the year Miller started injecting the steroids instead of just swallowing them...that man played too well to not be on some kind of PED

 

[The Gr8est]

Maybe the NFL* will call holding against him now that he is no longer on the Pats.

He might flourish.

 

[The Brandon Five]

Maybe the NFL* will call holing against him now that he is no longer on the Pats.

He might flourish.

Well, the Pats are playing them in Glendale so I'd say that's a good bet. Two or three calls. Book it.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Arians is right to say it improved their team. It did.

Losing Chandler Jones hurts us and helps them short term. No ifs ands or butts about it.

Could we at least see him play a single snap in a meaningful game before jumping to this conclusion? Yes, I agree, most likely Chandler Jones will make the Cardinals defense better. But to act like he has already come as advertised, or to conclude that he has improved their team, is speculation. Look at what Suh did in Miami last year; their pass rush and run defense was among the very worst in the NFL last year. He gradually improved and was pretty good by the end of the year, but few would have predicted how terrible he was for half the season, and there is no sure thing that he'll ever be close to what they are expecting. When players switch teams, schemes, and coaches, sometimes the unexplainable happens. I would also say that "pure" pass rushers are among the most finnicky players of all the positions; it's a split second difference between getting through to the QB and getting contained...there are lots of factors that can drastically change their production within a defense, and we've seen many times players not work out despite looking like a perfect fit.

 

[signbabybrady]

Arians is right to say it improved their team. It did.

Losing Chandler Jones hurts us and helps them short term. No ifs ands or butts about it. However we are in a position to absorb the loss well with Sheard and Nink and our depth looks promising.

Jones is a good but not really a dominating player which means you cant afford to pay him the money he is due. Generally you are way better off paying the Von Miller's and JJ Watts 16M a year as oppose to paying Jones 12M a year. Paying the top dollar for a truly dominate player is better than paying big money to a player that is just very good. To paraphrase Felger's puppet 2 pony are never as good as a horse and 2 horses are never as good as a stallion.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Jones is a good but not really a dominating player which means you cant afford to pay him the money he is due. Generally you are way better off paying the Von Miller's and JJ Watts 16M a year as oppose to paying Jones 12M a year. Paying the top dollar for a truly dominate player is better than paying big money to a player that is just very good. To paraphrase Felger's puppet 2 pony are never as good as a horse and 2 horses are never as good as a stallion.

I know this is beyond your point, and I don't mean to nitpick, but if you think Von Miller will make $16M a year or Jones will make $12M a year, you need to take a closer look at the recent FA contracts. Malik Jackson is making around $15M a year!!! He is not even a pro bowl player. Miller will likely make closer to $20M and Jones will almost certainly exceed $15M. I do agree with your general idea, though, which is that, if you are going to pay through the nose, you need to make sure you have a superstar, and good teams only realize they have a superstar who fits well into their system when they are extending someone already with the team.

 

[JMC00]

Could we at least see him play a single snap in a meaningful game before jumping to this conclusion?

They way Arians, Keim and Bidwell have been talking at the meetings about him sounds like if Jones' agent went to them right now and said give us the deal similair to Vernon's they'd have the contract drafted up and signed by the next day.

 

[Schmo]

We are better off at DE than OL. Cards have no room on the OL. Draft pick makes up for 1 year's difference in production. No long term risk for either side (except for the draft pick... so we win in that area).

I'm not perfect either, but the synthetic marijuana incident (during the PLAYOFFS!) was a definite red flag. Those actions, apology or not, are completely dissonant with the culture and mindset that BB tries to create. This gives Chandler a fresh start.

Win-win

 

[AtomicDawg]

Watching Chandler and Calais Campbell should be interesting. That is if they stop shopping him and can negotiate a contract with him.

 

[BobDigital]

But I need to know, are 4 ponies as good as a stallion? What if I could get a fifth pony playing for the veteran minimum?

To answer your question. no

People tend to forget you can get a base line JAG player that will producing something for you and maybe develop a guy for cheap. If you throw in 5 ponies and a pack of skittles you might be on to something though.

 

[patriot1136]

Jones disappears in big games, that's the problem.