Browns trade Shelton to Patriots

[Simpelton]

I like most of your post except your annotation. a) 2) And d) ???

Was that a reference to Home Alone?

 

[JazzaD]

Don't forget he was also an Academic All-American. Bill loves these types of players and tends to get the best out of them

 

[long distance]

They were fringe players who sucked. Shelton is a tier one nose tackle. This is my favorite news of the offseason. Now I don't care that Vea is out of range. So happy right now!

Great news indeed. We said earlier that best draft is waiting at Browns doors and here it is. And as you know this was one position I had my eye on early in this draft. Now, instead of potentially seriously moving up for Vea (or Payne) you get a young, experienced, proven NFL starting NT that fits NE D philosophy and actually add to 2018 draft capital for basically no real cost (2018 mid 5th has chart wise just slightly less value than 2019 lowest 3rd). And I wouldn't be surprised if this Samoan mountain turns into familiar dominant NT force here. Its just a blessing watching BB operate..

 

[Deus Irae]

Sure, great. I acknowledged all your points in my original reply. His age is a little relevant in that he's a scheme fit who has been playing in one that doesn't fit him, so we don't really know that he's not a good player. I'm fine playing wait and see, as I said in the post you called irrelevant because you didn't properly read it.

This is what you posted:

None mentioned by either of you here were 24 when acquired. They aren't really relevant. Shelton fits the system as well. Whether he produces is a separate issue. I think he will, we'll see.

It's completely irrelevant to what was being discussed, and your assertion that it's not doesn't make it so. Neither does your assertion that Shelton is a system fit make that so, or make his age relevant.

 

[Simpelton]

Nothing to really add to the discussion, but it sounds like Belichick made a big move here, and got a lot of value for a small investment.\

Hopefully the kid works out and doesn't pull an Ealy. If he does, we just got younger, stronger, and better on the defensive line without spending very much at all.

We actually have a lot of interesting puzzle pieces among the DTs and linebackers. Bill's got his work cut out for him forging a defense from them, but the raw material is probably there at this point, and we still have a draft to add to it.

Personally I'm kind of waiting to see if Bill's going to make a move like this one to secure a potential QBOTF, or if he's going to go the whole nine yards and draft one in the upper round. If he sees someone he likes you won't hear about it until the deal's done, like Sheldon's trade, but I bet he's scouring the league right now.

 

[HailHydra]

The Browns have been invisible for 10 years. Hard to evaluate their players
when they are stuck in a dumpster fire like they were.

Johnny. Manziel.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

This is absolutely a freakin steal. I wanted the Pats to use one of their first two picks on a NT and they get a former high first rounder from the 2015 draft. Now the Pats still have their first two picks and a stud NT with NFL experience.

My God this is huge. Literally and figuratively. haha

You've been as consistent as the sunrise on this point Tony. You score 10 out of 10 on it/ your 'BB seeing powers' .
While I'm hoping LB help is on deck, I love this pick up too. Did I mention I hope front line LB help is on deck?

 

[hornetfb85]

I like most of your post except your annotation. a) 2) And d) ???

Ha, just utilizing Buzz's numbering system:

 

[holyredeemer]

Was that a reference to Home Alone?

Wow. Good call man.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

shoved out of position or knocked on his ass

d%#*!@t! You stole the working title on a book I'm writing based on Branch's 2017 season.
Oh well, I'll go to my alternate title: 'Panda Express - Alan Branch's 2017 Season'.

 

[Tony2046]

Ha, just utilizing Buzz's numbering system:

Oh. I missed it. Thanks

 

[VJCPatriot]

Still need to draft a passrusher this year, because we are unlikely to pay Flowers the money he'd want to stay. Start the development a year in advance so you don't have to rely on a rookie to provide the pressures next year.

But yeah Shelton is a good addition to the interior DL.

I still feel we need to sign a passrusher, coverage linebacker, and a CB.

Also if we don't resign big Nate Solder, left tackle jumps to the top of the needs list.

I disagree. The front is set now. Focus on the LB's. The front has two rotational big bodies in VV and Shelton + Brown, Guy and Butler as DL's. That's solid as hell.

Hightower, T. Flowers as LB/DE's.. + Rivers??

That's looking pretty damn good to me.

 

[DaBruinz]

I'm liking the addition of Shelton. He will allow the Patriots to use Brown as the Under-tackle in the 4-3 that the Patriots use.. This should help everyone on that line, including the DEs..

 

[Wozzy]

And Springs, Galloway, Johnson, Haynesworth, Holt and many others didn't work out so, other than "BUT PATRIOTS!!!!!!!!", what's your point?

All those guys were senior citizens who cost nothing... the point again?

Shelton was the premier defensive tackle in the 2015 draft, where do you get the impression he played poorly? He played on a poor team, the greatest player in the NFL can't lift his team out of the cellar. I wonder how many of his detractors here not only watched Browns games (none) but when they did watched the play of the nose tackle? The kid is going to be productive for us.

 

[Deus Irae]

All those guys were senior citizens who cost nothing... the point again?

Shelton was the premier defensive tackle in the 2015 draft, where do you get the impression he played poorly?

I got whatever impressions I have of Shelton by watching him, analyzing what I saw, and listening to people who's opinions I think highly enough of to take into consideration when it comes to verifying what I think I've seen.

AllHe played on a poor team, the greatest player in the NFL can't lift his team out of the cellar. I wonder how many of his detractors here not only watched Browns games (none) but when they did watched the play of the nose tackle? The kid is going to be productive for us.

Unless your position is that no player can play well while on a bad team, you've got no real point here. You seem to be arguing against an entire army of straw men.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

However, you would have denied the pleasure of Bill Belichick selecting Jordan Richards in the second round.

I would have been OK with denying him that pleasure.

 

[Wozzy]

I got whatever impressions I have of Shelton by watching him, analyzing what I saw, and listening to people who's opinions I think highly enough of to take into consideration when it comes to verifying what I think I've seen.

Unless your position is that no player can play well while on a bad team, you've got no real point here. You seem to be arguing against an entire army of straw men.

You started this whole conversation by saying "players who play poorly for other teams rarely play well for a new team" (I'm paraphrasing).

Again Randy Moss on the Raiders stunk... right? He had 500 yards receiving the year before he came to New England and had 1500 yards and 23 TD's.

Mike Vrabel was a special teams player for the Steelers before he came to NE and Bill made him a starter. Even Pro Football Focus rated Shelton "above average." About the only redeeming quality of the Brown's team last year was their ability to stop the run.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Shelton was absolutely over drafted but so were everyone else not named Brown who I thought was the #1 DT that year. He landed where he should have imo.

Shelton is a slow run stuffer who at times can be pretty freaking good doing his job in the trenches. Bad body that needs to be monitored at all times but so are many players, on every team.

The Browns have Williams calling plays for some unknown ****in reason & mind you he had Peppers playing 30 yards off the l.o.s. last year.

He wasn't using his players the right way.

We can be assured Bill have Shelton doing the obvious. What he does best.

Not asking him to be an attacking NT like Williams has been doing.

I was literally telling someone yest that the Browns should target Chubb, Minkah & Vea in draft.

Vea is the attacking NT, that can 2 gap. Look the same. Two different players. That's who Williams was asking Shelton to be.

Anyway, back to us.

This is the Branch replacement we all knew was coming. Big ugly space eater.

I'm not worried about his #'s. That's not how this signing will be judged.

*If* healthy Shelton, Brown, Valentine, Guy, Butler is a major upgrade.

We know how Bill does w/ his big guys. Control your gaps, ultimately the l.o.s. Beat your man if you have a shot.

Those guys are all perfect for those roles.

 

[Deus Irae]

You started this whole conversation by saying "players who play poorly for other teams rarely play well for a new team" (I'm paraphrasing).

Again Randy Moss on the Raiders stunk... right? He had 500 yards receiving the year before he came to New England and had 1500 yards and 23 TD's.

Mike Vrabel was a special teams player for the Steelers before he came to NE and Bill made him a starter. Even Pro Football Focus rated Shelton "above average." About the only redeeming quality of the Brown's team last year was their ability to stop the run.

You seem to have almost completely ignored what I actually wrote, beyond needlessly getting your dander up and blindly charging into a non-existent fray.

And, if you're going to continue to try pointing to Randy Moss as a comparison to Shelton, and continue quoting PFF as if it has actual credibility, this is going to be comedy gold. Here's what I actually wrote:

Most players who suck on one team also suck on the next.
Most players who are average on one team are also average on the next.
The volatility of successful team change is usually with high end players. Shelton has not been a high end player, to date.

Notice that

1. I did not say Shelton sucks.
2. Randy Moss would, without question, be a player who'd demonstrated himself to be a high end player during his career. He also had a 1000 yard season in his first year on the Raiders, before clearly checking out in his second.

In fact, my evaluation of Shelton came a bit later:

I get it. Some people like the move and some are more hesitant. That's to be expected with a player who's been a disappointment, but not a bust:

I also opined on the relatively low bar I think is necessary to clear in order for the deal to be a good one:

He doesn't need to be a monster. He just needs to be stout against the run. If he can do that, it's a win for the Patriots.

Now, you can keep jousting against windmills and straw men, or you can just drop this and move on.

 

[Wozzy]

You seem to have almost completely ignored what I actually wrote, beyond needlessly getting your dander up and blindly charging into a non-existent fray.

And, if you're going to continue to try pointing to Randy Moss as a comparison to Shelton, and continue quoting PFF as if it has actual credibility, this is going to be comedy gold. Here's what I actually wrote:

Notice that

1. I did not say Shelton sucks.
2. Randy Moss would, without question, be a player who'd demonstrated himself to be a high end player during his career. He also had a 1000 yard season in his first year on the Raiders, before clearly checking out in his second.

In fact, my evaluation of Shelton came a bit later:

I also opined on the relatively low bar I think is necessary to clear in order for the deal to be a good one:

Now, you can keep jousting against windmills and straw men, or you can just drop this and move on.

The only team that Danny Shelton has ever known has been arguably the most pathetic franchise in the history of the league at the deepest depths of their despair. Since you know about football, physics or team sports you know that a single defensive tackle against an entire opposing offensive line is a lose/lose proposition no matter how good.

We got shellacked by the Eagles because Malcolm Brown was our only good defensive tackle, you may disagree but in the real world football doesn't happen in a vacuum. Ricky Jean Francois isn't a healthy Alan Branch or Vincent Valentine... the guy had no job outside of Dunkins until the Pats called.

Football is a TEAM sport, Randy Moss had 1000 yards because in year 1 Kerry Collins was his QB. In year two it was two guys you never heard of (Andrew Walter, Aaron Brooks).

In my estimation they just got a blue chip DT, if I misunderstood your response I apologize.