Brady Second Circuit Judges: Parker, Katzmann, Chin

[XLIX]

Right, I think people are getting too caught up in the whole pro-labor vs. pro-management angle in a case that's really about how much deference the court is supposed to afford the arbitrator.

Exactly. And as the case I quoted proves, judges often set aside labor v. management partisanship when determining if arbitrator's acted properly because, in general, an arbitrator may rule unfairly for labor just as much as he may rule unfairly for management.

 

[Fencer]

Happy it's Chin ... definitely did not want Sum Ting Wong.

Why do we need to mock Chinese names?

Or Sum Dum Fuk

Ditto.

 

[Ring 6]

Why do we need to mock Chinese names?



Ditto.

Seriously?
Lighten up

 

[Fencer]

Everyone is trying to frame this as a partisan political management v. labor battle, hoping for democrats because Brady is labor.

However, IMHO, it is not quite as partisan as people are making it out to be. It is about the limits and rules for arbitration. In this particular instance, the labor side won the dispute and the management are the ones appealing. However, I don't see a group of judges declaring that arbitrators must be impartial as something that necessarily benefits labor any more than it benefits management.

This case is about management having the right to appoint an arbitrator, and the other side then questioning what the limits on that arbitrator are.

Are there analogous situations where labor can appoint the arbitrator?

 

[Fencer]

Yea I don't know who his folks where but I do remember them being bible thumpers from TX

I have vague memories of hearings as to whether Hinckley can get some time out of jail to go hang out with his mother.

Unless I'm mixing Hinckley up with some similar creep ...

 

[Fencer]

I wasnt really referring to Berman but you do have a point with the age in which SCJ's are typically nominated and appointed. Its my understanding that they typically are in the 50s.

Chin is 61 or 62
Katzmann is 65 or 66
Parker is 71

Clement is 49 and a fmr SG so his is absolutely in the right age bracket.

That has become true. Presidents want the maximum bang, as counted in years, for their appointments.

 

[Fencer]

yes, i guess that's what Judge Berman meant by Goodell inventing "his own brand of industrial justice."

That was a phrase from some precedent.

 

[Fencer]

In other words, a court making it easier for other courts to overturn an evidently partial arbitrator's decision is not necessarily a pro-labor verdict.

I ask again -- how frequent is that kind of partiality, as opposed to partiality that is pro-management?

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

Exactly. And as the case I quoted proves, judges often set aside labor v. management partisanship when determining if arbitrator's acted properly because, in general, an arbitrator may rule unfairly for labor just as much as he may rule unfairly for management.

And with the whole world watching and a lower court finding abuse of due process, I think it's going to be hard for CA2 to just defer to the arbitrator in the name of expediency (which, at the end of the day, is the whole rational behind arbitrators).

 

[XLIX]

This case is about management having the right to appoint an arbitrator, and the other side then questioning what the limits on that arbitrator are.

Are there analogous situations where labor can appoint the arbitrator?

I don't know of any situations where labor can unilaterally appoint an arbitrator, but there are certainly situations where arbitrators are selected from a list of arbitrators that both sides make which leaves open the possibility that a labor-friendly arbitrator gets selected which potentially opens up the can o' evident partiality worms.

 

[Fencer]

More embarrassment brought to you by the NFL. Now they have mediots that are starting to question the stripping(heist) of picks. The negative media attention they are going to receive is going to be a circus. Evidently right where they want to be. Front and center during NBA and MLB so their precious little money maker can be Relevant during the offseason.

Actually I think a more juicier story would be hgh and Peyton Manning but it's pretty clear they just want to discuss Peyton's possible retirement decision instead.

Manning, on the whole, has been treated pretty fairly by the media.

This outrages us because it's such a contrast to Brady's treatment. But in a vacuum, it's not bad. He gets over-praised. He gets over-criticized. He gets viewed as much more important than he is. Lazier "journalists" report on what he says or does at face value.

It's all pretty normal for a major celebrity athlete.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

I ask again -- how frequent is that kind of partiality, as opposed to partiality that is pro-management?

That's a good/fair question but that wasn't my quote you're referring to.

I assume that labor is the side more likely to be seeking judicial relief to vacate arbitration awards than management but I don't really know.

 

[Fencer]

I don't know of any situations where labor can unilaterally appoint an arbitrator, but there are certainly situations where arbitrators are selected from a list of arbitrators that both sides make which leaves open the possibility that a labor-friendly arbitrator gets selected which potentially opens up the can o' evident partiality worms.

How does that work? Do both sides suggest partial administrators, after which the names are put into a hat and somebody's are drawn out?

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don't know of any situations where labor can unilaterally appoint an arbitrator, but there are certainly situations where arbitrators are selected from a list of arbitrators that both sides make which leaves open the possibility that a labor-friendly arbitrator gets selected which potentially opens up the can o' evident partiality worms.

There was a case that McCann called out in which Parker overturned a ruling and sided with mgt which wanted an award overturned b/c they had an arbitrator with a bias to union.....need to re-read that one...

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Michael McCann on the Brady appeal judges

I am sorry to start a new thread and realize that this article was posted in the other thread, but this write-up is incredibly comprehensive and a must read. Could a mod merge this and add it to the OP in the other thread?

McCann is just awesome. Best sports law columnist out there.

The judges who will decide Deflategate appeal

 

[XLIX]

How does that work? Do both sides suggest partial administrators, after which the names are put into a hat and somebody's are drawn out?

There can sometimes be a list of approved arbitrators which is submitted to the parties (by a separate organization). I believe there can also be a pre-ordained list of arbitrators written into a CBA, and an arbitrator is selected from that. (But don't quote me on that last part)

As we are all learning, so much of this comes down to luck of the draw. I think Brady has a much stronger case than the league, but I am sure there are judges who could have been selected instead of Berman who would have ruled differently.

 

[Ring 6]

That's a good/fair question but that wasn't my quote you're referring to.

I assume that labor is the side more likely to be seeking judicial relief to vacate arbitration awards than management but I don't really know.

I think it's more specific than siding with labor or management in overturning an arbitration award.
It's about the REASONS for vacature which all are dramatically more likely to be appealed by labor than management.

In other words the court isn't ruling in favor of management or labor but on whether the rights that were denied brady in his appeal of discipline are legally denied.
It would be rare for due notice and right to see investigation notes and question investigators would be points management would be arguing.

To confirm lack of notice is not to take power away from an arbitrator but to say the particular arbitrator/discipliner in this case was incompetent.

 

[Satchboogie3]

So you have the Chief Judge and two other high-powered, well respected US Federal Court judges that preside over major cases on a daily basis and are one promotion away from the US Supreme Court and now they need to hear a labor law dispute in which it's genesis is born from deflated footballs caused by atmospheric conditions and led by an agenda-driven idiot commissioner and bratty owners.

So f***ing stupid it's embarrassing. I can't even begin to think how other countries around the world perceive this madness.

Can they decide after hearing the oral arguments that this case is indeed a total waste of their time and there is absolutely no reason to even consider overturning the ruling as it has been so painfully clear and obvious how Goodell ignored labor law and basic fairness and just end it there, or is it required to go through the full process?

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

This case is about management having the right to appoint an arbitrator, and the other side then questioning what the limits on that arbitrator are.

Are there analogous situations where labor can appoint the arbitrator?

Th NFL has argued no, there are not similar cases, which is why precedents cited by NFLPA don't apply. Of course, take that argument further and there would be precedents in their favor either.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

I think it's more specific than siding with labor or management in overturning an arbitration award.
It's about the REASONS for vacature which all are dramatically more likely to be appealed by labor than management.

In other words the court isn't ruling in favor of management or labor but on whether the rights that were denied brady in his appeal of discipline are legally denied.
It would be rare for due notice and right to see investigation notes and question investigators would be points management would be arguing.

To confirm lack of notice is not to take power away from an arbitrator but to say the particular arbitrator/discipliner in this case was incompetent.

Fair point.