Bledsoe or Cassel

[Deus Irae]

Pats07/08 - Brady08 + Cassel = 5 less regulars season wins and AFC champs

Pats00/01 - Brady01 + Bledsoe = 6 less regular season wins and SB champs

So the only way to conclude Bledsoe> Cassel is to conclude Brady01>Brady07

Someone doesn't understand his algebra.

 

[Deus Irae]

What a great off season thread.

The creative ability to rationalize myriad contrived excuses for Drew's oft noted poor decision making lives.

As does the ability to argue foolishly in the other direction. Thanks for pointing out half the story.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

I may be wrong but does anyone think Cassel is never going to even sniff the stats and accomplishments of what Bledsoe did here and in his career?

Hell even if Cassel had been the starter this year and beyond he would not even come close to Drew...and I don't need a crystal ball to know this,Cassel is going to go down as a one year wonder.

Of course this has little to do with this conversation so on we go ...

 

[Double G]

What a great off season thread.

The creative ability to rationalize myriad contrived excuses for Drew's oft noted poor decision making lives.

So needless to say you come down on the Cassel side of the fence on this one.

Thanks for playing and for your enormous contribution to this thread as without you, it would have died on the vines.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Pats07/08 - Brady08 + Cassel = 5 less regulars season wins and AFC champs

Pats00/01 - Brady01 + Bledsoe = 6 less regular season wins and SB champs

So the only way to conclude Bledsoe> Cassel is to conclude Brady01>Brady07

There are plenty of other ways to conclude it, since everything around them wasn't held constant, but I'm not too interested in getting into that.

FWIW, I do agree that a) Cassel's career stats will not rival Bledsoe's, and b) Bledsoe is the second-best QB in franchise history. Cassel's just a better QB for the Patriots of the 2000s.

 

[Patjew]

I change my vote to Doug Flutie.

 

[Deus Irae]

I change my vote to Doug Flutie.

Possibly the safest call of them all.

 

[RDS11]

What, no love for Michael Bishop anymore ?

 

[Ring 6]

I don't apologize for anything. I analyze it as straight up as possible. The funny thing about your argument here is that it really serves to make the point. How was Dallas in Aikman's first year? How about Indy in year 1 of the Manning era?

One big difference between those QBs and Bledsoe is that the talent around them on offense became much improved.

>>>Making excuse for performance is apologizing.
The difference in those QBs? They made their teams better. Bledsoe had plenty of talent suurounding him.

I'm sorry, but that's the mark of a good QB. He makes his team better with him than without.

>>>"Elevating" a team to medicority simply illustrates the limitations of the QB.

No, but giving respect instead of bringing in a needless and unhelpful bias would be appropriate.

>>>I bring no bias. If I had bias and an agenda as you are suggesting please find the other thread in 5 years where I even discussed Bledsoe.
I give Bledsoe the amount of respect he deserves, He does not deserve the "respect" of ignoring his flaws, no one does.

That team was in the hopper from the Super Bowl until Bledsoe's rookie season. From the 'fun' in the locker room, to the 'fun' of a 1 win season, it was a disaster. I do find it amusing that you go that far back when I only pointed to the 3 years previous in order to pretend that those years didn't suck the life out of Patriots fans because they had a few more wins. It really highlights the bias.


>>>Actually, I went back to the point of success. Bledsoe last 3 years as started were arguable more disappointing to Pats fans than the 3 before him.

Yes, but you're wrong. Saying it repeatedly, in different languages or while wearing different outfits isn't going to change that.


>>>Everything other than your opinion supports that I am correct. From 1999 on Drew Bledsoe had 6 full seasons. He led exactly zero of those 6 squads to the playoffs. His teams were 45-51 combined with him starting. In 4 of those 6 years his QB rating was under 80 and the 2 over were 86 and 83.7. His completion % was under 60% 4 times and under 57% twice. His TD/Int ratio was 114/94



Of course, the funniest part of it all is that I've already pointed out some of the problems with using 2000 as the anchor for the argument with regards to 'decisions' in this comparison, but that just gets ignored.

>>>I have no clue what that is supposed to mean.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Most of the arguments here have been ignorant, yours included. That's what happens when bias replaces reason.

Clearly spoken by the self proclaimed lone voice of reason hereabouts...

You keep talking about how this offense has changed. It hasn't, it merely adapted. The playbook has expanded to accommodate different talents and to account for defenses attempting to shut it down. At it's core it remains the same offense. One predicated on disciplined execution across the board and a QB's ability to adapt to it, to read defenses, and adjust to them in a consistent manner that his line and receivers can count on and are expected to replicate, to make good decisions quickly and consistently, remain patient and disciplined under pressure and protect the god damn football.

If Belichick coached here until 2039 Bledsoe could not play for him because he cannot run that fundamental offense. Might he win some more games than the 3 over .500 he won in his first 9 years here if inserted into the 2007 cast as assembled? Probably, but would some of them have ever come here to play for Bill Belichick behind Drew Bledsoe? On a team that hadn't won a Superbowl beyond 2001? I don't think so. Would Branch and Givens have developed without what Brady brought to the mix? Probably not. Would the present "cerebral" OL have played as well in front of a statue as they learned to in front of a cerebral QB with uncanny pocket presence? Probably not. And would BB not bench him as Parcell's did if he became insubordinate? Or when he merely persistently failed to adjust a throw to beat a defense and hit a defender in stride rather than Moss or Welker who had read the defense and made the adjustment?

You admire talent. Including guys who can sling it. Unfortunately that remains the downfall of half the NFL franchises. Bill looks for system fits first and foremost beginning with his QB because if talent can't execute within his system it is of no value to him.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Someone doesn't understand his algebra.

While some others simply don't understand Belichick's system.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I may be wrong but does anyone think Cassel is never going to even sniff the stats and accomplishments of what Bledsoe did here and in his career?

Hell even if Cassel had been the starter this year and beyond he would not even come close to Drew...and I don't need a crystal ball to know this,Cassel is going to go down as a one year wonder.

Of course this has little to do with this conversation so on we go ...

Aside from yards and attempts, the bar isn't set all that high.

Drew Bledsoe Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

So needless to say you come down on the Cassel side of the fence on this one.

Thanks for playing and for your enormous contribution to this thread as without you, it would have died on the vines.

Yes, my 6 or 7 posts in this thread are quality, not quantity.

Try to learn from it, Grasshopper.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Thanks for comparing Brady to Bledsoe.

Now back to the thread.

Way to completely gloss over the entire issue. What he was saying was that in the AFCCG, which you guys keep treating as some miracle performance that itself constitutes an excellent body of work, Bledsoe made poor decisions on 9 of 21 throws. That is by the coaches' own measurement. Does it need to be explained more clearly that this is a bad ratio, and is a snapshot of Bledsoe's greatest limitations as a player? Say what you want about Cassel, but he wasn't making bad decisions with the ball almost half of the time that he dropped back to pass.

 

[Double G]

Yes, my 6 or 7 posts in this thread are quality, not quantity.

Try to learn from it, Grasshopper.

Ok Enstein, thanks for yet another award winning, stop the presses post..........

 

[BradyFTW!]

Ok Enstein, thanks for yet another award winning, stop the presses post..........

1. Insult person's post
2. Be responded to with an evenhanded post that casts your bizarre aggression in an even harsher light
3. Respond with another insult
4. ....

See where this is going? You seem to be stuck in a loop, and the only thing that any of this is proving is that you're both misinformed and WAY too invested in this.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Aside from yards and attempts, the bar isn't set all that high.

Drew Bledsoe Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Not just yards and attempts. I doubt Cassel comes close in int or fumbles either. Bledsoes numbers are almost Favreske in those areas.

 

[Ring 6]

Clearly spoken by the self proclaimed lone voice of reason hereabouts...

You keep talking about how this offense has changed. It hasn't, it merely adapted. The playbook has expanded to accommodate different talents and to account for defenses attempting to shut it down. At it's core it remains the same offense. One predicated on disciplined execution across the board and a QB's ability to adapt to it, to read defenses, and adjust to them in a consistent manner that his line and receivers can count on and are expected to replicate, to make good decisions quickly and consistently, remain patient and disciplined under pressure and protect the god damn football.

If Belichick coached here until 2039 Bledsoe could not play for him because he cannot run that fundamental offense. Might he win some more games than the 3 over .500 he won in his first 9 years here if inserted into the 2007 cast as assembled? Probably, but would some of them have ever come here to play for Bill Belichick behind Drew Bledsoe? On a team that hadn't won a Superbowl beyond 2001? I don't think so. Would Branch and Givens have developed without what Brady brought to the mix? Probably not. Would the present "cerebral" OL have played as well in front of a statue as they learned to in front of a cerebral QB with uncanny pocket presence? Probably not. And would BB not bench him as Parcell's did if he became insubordinate? Or when he merely persistently failed to adjust a throw to beat a defense and hit a defender in stride rather than Moss or Welker who had read the defense and made the adjustment?

You admire talent. Including guys who can sling it. Unfortunately that remains the downfall of half the NFL franchises. Bill looks for system fits first and foremost beginning with his QB because if talent can't execute within his system it is of no value to him.

Careful, you are disrespcting Drew by commenting on his weaknesses. That isnt fair, he signlehandedly saved the franchise. After those 3 bad years we were ready to be disbanded. You should know that this means you are not objective or reasonable because only those whose praise Drew are speaking honestly and fairly.
Stop using facts and bow to Drew. We owe that to him, he wasn't just a QB who had a few good years then languished in medicority HE IS THE IDENTITY OF MANY POSTERS ON THIS BOARD. BLASPHEMER.

 

[Patjew]

Ok Enstein, thanks for yet another award winning, stop the presses post..........

...........................................

 

[Ring 6]

Ok Enstein, thanks for yet another award winning, stop the presses post..........

I love it. You attempted to use sarcasm to imply he is stupid by calling him Einstein, yet you misspelled Einstein.