BGC 2023 OT/PTP Thread

[patfanken]

You take a RT at #14 if you've got a left-handed QB. Because that's his blind side and you want your most capable pass protector there.

What "number 1 corner" do you want to sign?

30 yr old James Bradberry?
33 yr old Patrick Peterson?
30 yr old Marcus Peters who has missed games due to injury each of the last 2 years?

Who is this #1 CB you are hot to trot for and why do you think the Patriots need to cut a BARGAIN starting tackle in Brown to sign the guy?

What makes you think that Wright will still be there at 46?

You are right on the money about the FA CB class. There aren't any easy CB fixes there. That's why the Pats NEED to focus on CB in the draft, because the LT class in this draft becomes very iffy very quickly. And if I have figured this out, there are 32 NFL front offices that have figured it out too. That's why I strongly believe, the one or 2 "sure-fire" LT prospects will be gone well before 14. So IMHO, that will make what to do at 14 much easier, because a "sure-fire" CB type WILL likely be there.

As for trading down, I think it is a good possibility we go in this direction. From about 12 to 50, you are generally picking from the same level of athlete. It is need and perception that determines where in this grouping a player will be picked. Having THREE picks in this grouping will go a long way to filling some of the holes we have in our roster. Coming up with 3 players who can contribute immediately in a rotational or starting role would be AWESOME

2 other questions on the the topic of OT's

a. @BaconGrundleCandy did his ratings of OT's back in October. My question to him is how he would rate them NOW, after the senior bowl For example he has Paris Johnson in his 1B group, where today many think Johnson might be the first OT off the board. Who would be in his top 3 groupings now?

b. What does think about the OTHER options the Pats ALREADY have on their roster? I'm thinking particularly of Cajuste and Stuber. Both these guys will go into this off-season healthy (I think) for the first time in their careers Could THEY be the answer or part of the answer at OT.

c Which leads to another question to the great man, WHO is a good comparison to Stuber and Cajuste in this draft class?

 

[DaBruinz]

You are right on the money about the FA CB class. There aren't any easy CB fixes there. That's why the Pats NEED to focus on CB in the draft, because the LT class in this draft becomes very iffy very quickly. And if I have figured this out, there are 32 NFL front offices that have figured it out too. That's why I strongly believe, the one or 2 "sure-fire" LT prospects will be gone well before 14. So IMHO, that will make what to do at 14 much easier, because a "sure-fire" CB type WILL likely be there.

As for trading down, I think it is a good possibility we go in this direction. From about 12 to 50, you are generally picking from the same level of athlete. It is need and perception that determines where in this grouping a player will be picked. Having THREE picks in this grouping will go a long way to filling some of the holes we have in our roster. Coming up with 3 players who can contribute immediately in a rotational or starting role would be AWESOME

2 other questions on the the topic of OT's

a. @BaconGrundleCandy did his ratings of OT's back in October. My question to him is how he would rate them NOW, after the senior bowl For example he has Paris Johnson in his 1B group, where today many think Johnson might be the first OT off the board. Who would be in his top 3 groupings now?

b. What does think about the OTHER options the Pats ALREADY have on their roster? I'm thinking particularly of Cajuste and Stuber. Both these guys will go into this off-season healthy (I think) for the first time in their careers Could THEY be the answer or part of the answer at OT.

c Which leads to another question to the great man, WHO is a good comparison to Stuber and Cajuste in this draft class?

If Witherspoon, Porter, and Cam Smith are still there at 14 when the Pats pick, I'm looking to trade back and taking calls from anyone who wants to draft Joey Porter Jr. If I can trade back to 17-20 while adding a 3rd round pick, I'm doing it.

b. Cajuste is a UFA. IF the Patriots bring him back, it will be on small money. I'm not sure they will based on his injury history. Steuber is interesting because he's lined up at RT with Onwenu next to him before. He is my darkhorse to be the reserve RT/RG..

 

[patfanken]

If Witherspoon, Porter, and Cam Smith are still there at 14 when the Pats pick, I'm looking to trade back and taking calls from anyone who wants to draft Joey Porter Jr. If I can trade back to 17-20 while adding a 3rd round pick, I'm doing it.

b. Cajuste is a UFA. IF the Patriots bring him back, it will be on small money. I'm not sure they will based on his injury history. Steuber is interesting because he's lined up at RT with Onwenu next to him before. He is my darkhorse to be the reserve RT/RG..

So you think that Porter, Witherspoon and Smith are interchangable? You don't think that Porter and Gonzales are the 2 top guys and there is a gap between them and Smith, witherspoon and Ringo? Or they all in a big pile and you'd be happy with any of them?

BTW- who is your top pick for your OT in the 2nd round. Wright or Mauch, assuming you had that choice at 46

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

You are right on the money about the FA CB class. There aren't any easy CB fixes there. That's why the Pats NEED to focus on CB in the draft, because the LT class in this draft becomes very iffy very quickly. And if I have figured this out, there are 32 NFL front offices that have figured it out too. That's why I strongly believe, the one or 2 "sure-fire" LT prospects will be gone well before 14. So IMHO, that will make what to do at 14 much easier, because a "sure-fire" CB type WILL likely be there.

As for trading down, I think it is a good possibility we go in this direction. From about 12 to 50, you are generally picking from the same level of athlete. It is need and perception that determines where in this grouping a player will be picked. Having THREE picks in this grouping will go a long way to filling some of the holes we have in our roster. Coming up with 3 players who can contribute immediately in a rotational or starting role would be AWESOME

2 other questions on the the topic of OT's

a. @BaconGrundleCandy did his ratings of OT's back in October. My question to him is how he would rate them NOW, after the senior bowl For example he has Paris Johnson in his 1B group, where today many think Johnson might be the first OT off the board. Who would be in his top 3 groupings now?

RD 1

Paris Johnson

Late 1 / early 2

Darnell Wright / Broderick Jones / Matthew Bergeron

RD 2

Dawand Jones / Anton Harrison

RD 3

Jaelyn Duncan / Warren McClendon
Blake Freeland

RD 4-5

Tyler Steen

Wanya Morris

Carter Warren

b. What does think about the OTHER options the Pats ALREADY have on their roster? I'm thinking particularly of Cajuste and Stuber. Both these guys will go into this off-season healthy (I think) for the first time in their careers Could THEY be the answer or part of the answer at OT.

c Which leads to another question to the great man, WHO is a good comparison to Stuber and Cajuste in this draft class?

I liked Cajuste coming out a decent bit. I think I had a 3rd on him. Extremely athletic, nimble feet, easy mover. That's what i think of when looking back on YC. Skoronski has some great footwork, easy mover very light on his feet. I just think Skoronski is a G next level. Cody Mauch potentially has some pretty good footwork next level. Light easy mover. No lumbering or hesitation or many false steps. He's a beast.

One name that hasn't been mentioned almost anywhere is Wanya Morris. He's just about as talented as anyone in the class. Extremely high expectations at Tenn. 5* guy coming out HS. I mean this kid has a skill set but again just never took it to the next level. Sometimes I don't have "fancy" answers or even a answer. He just loses his **** in pp too often. Just falls apart too often but will flash at times. He's powerful, agile and takes great angles at times but he'll get lazy at the waist. Fluid mover. He flashes some sweet footwork at times. Could be a good RT or RG with some real tlc and good coaching.

 

[DaBruinz]

So you think that Porter, Witherspoon and Smith are interchangable? You don't think that Porter and Gonzales are the 2 top guys and there is a gap between them and Smith, witherspoon and Ringo? Or they all in a big pile and you'd be happy with any of them?

BTW- who is your top pick for your OT in the 2nd round. Wright or Mauch, assuming you had that choice at 46

PFK - That's not what I said. My preferences (based on whom I expect to be there) are either Witherspoon or Smith. I want nothing to do with Joey Porter Jr. because of his father. I think that Witherspoon or Smith would be better fits defensively for the Pats as well.

Mauch is being moved inside. That's why he played G and C at the Senior Bowl..

Dawand Jones or Darnell Wright would look very good next to Onwenu. Wright, who also has experience at LT, could be a swing tackle for a year. But that would be provided that the Pats signed someone to play LT in free agency. But that has gotten iffy with the likelihood of Orlando Brown being franchised by the Chiefs.

 

[patfanken]

RD 1

Paris Johnson

Late 1 / early 2

Darnell Wright / Broderick Jones / Matthew Bergeron

RD 2

Dawand Jones / Anton Harrison

RD 3

Jaelyn Duncan / Warren McClendon
Blake Freeland

RD 4-5

Tyler Steen

Wanya Morris

Carter Warren

I liked Cajuste coming out a decent bit. I think I had a 3rd on him. Extremely athletic, nimble feet, easy mover. That's what i think of when looking back on YC. Skoronski has some great footwork, easy mover very light on his feet. I just think Skoronski is a G next level. Cody Mauch potentially has some pretty good footwork next level. Light easy mover. No lumbering or hesitation or many false steps. He's a beast.

One name that hasn't been mentioned almost anywhere is Wanya Morris. He's just about as talented as anyone in the class. Extremely high expectations at Tenn. 5* guy coming out HS. I mean this kid has a skill set but again just never took it to the next level. Sometimes I don't have "fancy" answers or even a answer. He just loses his **** in pp too often. Just falls apart too often but will flash at times. He's powerful, agile and takes great angles at times but he'll get lazy at the waist. Fluid mover. He flashes some sweet footwork at times. Could be a good RT or RG with some real tlc and good coaching.

Thanks. That gives me a better feel for this draft class. So based on this, if the CB they really want isn't on the board at 14, they COULD trade down say 10 spots or so, pick up an additional 2nd or early 3rd and still get a starting OT, though not a sure fire instant starter.
btw, where is Mauck in you list. Is he a round 2 guy. What do you think about him at 46 with if we go CB in the first?

 

[Wilfork#75]

Thanks. That gives me a better feel for this draft class. So based on this, if the CB they really want isn't on the board at 14, they COULD trade down say 10 spots or so, pick up an additional 2nd or early 3rd and still get a starting OT, though not a sure fire instant starter.
btw, where is Mauck in you list. Is he a round 2 guy. What do you think about him at 46 with if we go CB in the first?

I love the idea of an aggressive trade down from 14 with a trade up in the second. We could conceivably end up with 3 picks in the top 40 to solidify our OL and add a WR.

Obviously you need a partner to trade, but if a QB is still on the board at 14 (Anthony Richardson?), I could see the Saints looking to move up to grab their guy. Based on the trade value chart, trading 14 and 135 to the Saints for 29 and 40 is almost identical points wise (1139-1140).

I would then look to make a small move up from 46 (46 + 107 would get us up to 38) to get us 3 top 40 picks. With this we could take one of the stud, plug and play RT’s, one of the high ceiling developmental LT’s and one of the explosive tier 2 WR’s. Then at 76 we can take advantage of the deep CB class with whoever is the best fit.

It would be something like:

1(29)- RT- Darnell Wright- Tenn (Dawand Jones OSU)

2(38)- LT- Anton Harrison- Oklahoma (Jaelyn Duncan- Maryland)

2(40)- WR- Zay Flowers- BC (or Kayshon Boutte- LSU)

3(76)- CB- Julius Brents- K State (Garrett Williams- Syracuse)

I’m a huge fan of Anton Harrison and I can’t understand why he seems to be slipping out of the top tier of OT in this draft. To me, if he can just be a bit more consistent with his technique he is a franchise LT. He has the size, strength, agility, hands and feet to be a stud. He has already drawn some Trent Williams comparisons and I think he would be a steal in the late 1st/ early 2nd.

 

[Crazy World of Troy Brown]

Pats face 7 of the Top 10 Teams next year in Sack %, this year.
Philly, Dallas, N.O., KC, Washington, Indy, Jets (2).
8 games, almost half season, you have to work on Protection, for a QB, who isn't very mobile.

 

[Patriot Missile]

If Witherspoon is there at 14 I don’t think I could get my pick up to the podium fast enough. Other than him, there doesn’t seem to be that CB out there that screams trade up for me. At least not from 14. Overall this group is a crapshoot and very thin after round 2. Although Bill is pretty good at picking the position in the mid rounds to ufa and getting them ready. Another thing that goes unnoticed by some while they nitpick the wr failures.

How many true LTs are in this draft thus far? I’m in agreement that Paris Johnson will be gone unless a small trade up is made to say the 9th or 10th pick. Don’t really believe the mock drafts where he is almost always there at 14. There are no others that you say to yourself surefire LT If they go in any other direction from him, otherwise, the coaching, evaluation has got to be spot on. A lot of raw talent on the oline this year to choose from with a lot of upside. Really can’t afford a miss. Klemm can really make a name for himself here.

After the combine, and interviews a lot changes though.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Thanks. That gives me a better feel for this draft class. So based on this, if the CB they really want isn't on the board at 14, they COULD trade down say 10 spots or so, pick up an additional 2nd or early 3rd and still get a starting OT, though not a sure fire instant starter.
btw, where is Mauck in you list. Is he a round 2 guy. What do you think about him at 46 with if we go CB in the first?

Yes Harrison, Mauch, Bergeron for example. Just forget Cody but yea he's likely getting a 2nd or high 3rd with his athletic testing coming. His movements are sweet. We usually grab a tackle in the first 3 rounds. So it'll be a small group - Wright, B Jones, D Jones, Harrison, Bergeron, Mauch, Paris or Skoronski as dark horse. He'll grade out high for me but I think hes a guard. I might list him as tackle bc it seems NFL teams disagree with me about where he'll play so we'll see on that. But yea that's the short list and then a signed drop off so again if we're looking at tackle it'll be one of those fellas.

Yup small list at 14. 4-6 guys and trade back for hopefully a 2nd. I wouldn't be shocked if we do a surprise trade too. I know people won't like it but it's a very deep Edge and RB class. I wonder if Bill would trade either Harris or Uche for a 2nd to secure the OT or WR position. Just throwing it out there.

I love the idea of an aggressive trade down from 14 with a trade up in the second. We could conceivably end up with 3 picks in the top 40 to solidify our OL and add a WR.

Obviously you need a partner to trade, but if a QB is still on the board at 14 (Anthony Richardson?), I could see the Saints looking to move up to grab their guy. Based on the trade value chart, trading 14 and 135 to the Saints for 29 and 40 is almost identical points wise (1139-1140).

I would then look to make a small move up from 46 (46 + 107 would get us up to 38) to get us 3 top 40 picks. With this we could take one of the stud, plug and play RT’s, one of the high ceiling developmental LT’s and one of the explosive tier 2 WR’s. Then at 76 we can take advantage of the deep CB class with whoever is the best fit.

It would be something like:

1(29)- RT- Darnell Wright- Tenn (Dawand Jones OSU)

2(38)- LT- Anton Harrison- Oklahoma (Jaelyn Duncan- Maryland)

2(40)- WR- Zay Flowers- BC (or Kayshon Boutte- LSU)

3(76)- CB- Julius Brents- K State (Garrett Williams- Syracuse)

I’m a huge fan of Anton Harrison and I can’t understand why he seems to be slipping out of the top tier of OT in this draft. To me, if he can just be a bit more consistent with his technique he is a franchise LT. He has the size, strength, agility, hands and feet to be a stud. He has already drawn some Trent Williams comparisons and I think he would be a steal in the late 1st/ early 2nd.

I've been a big Harrison guy for a while now. His hands need a lot of work. In pp, working off contact, initial punch and placement. A little late in the run game making first contact or locating target. Like Broderick his feet and hands aren't always in sync. I like him a lot though.

 

[p8ryts]

Yes Harrison, Mauch, Bergeron for example. Just forget Cody but yea he's likely getting a 2nd or high 3rd with his athletic testing coming. His movements are sweet. We usually grab a tackle in the first 3 rounds. So it'll be a small group - Wright, B Jones, D Jones, Harrison, Bergeron, Mauch, Paris or Skoronski as dark horse. He'll grade out high for me but I think hes a guard. I might list him as tackle bc it seems NFL teams disagree with me about where he'll play so we'll see on that. But yea that's the short list and then a signed drop off so again if we're looking at tackle it'll be one of those fellas.

Yup small list at 14. 4-6 guys and trade back for hopefully a 2nd. I wouldn't be shocked if we do a surprise trade too. I know people won't like it but it's a very deep Edge and RB class. I wonder if Bill would trade either Harris or Uche for a 2nd to secure the OT or WR position. Just throwing it out there.

I've been a big Harrison guy for a while now. His hands need a lot of work. In pp, working off contact, initial punch and placement. A little late in the run game making first contact or locating target. Like Broderick his feet and hands aren't always in sync. I like him a lot though.

Wow, I like the Uche trade idea. I was big on him as a rookie. Gave us nothing. Finally clicked a little last year. He's no Judon. If someone was willing to invest a 2 or 3 in him I would grab it. Maybe he will continue to develop but I thought he lacked instinct.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Wow, I like the Uche trade idea. I was big on him as a rookie. Gave us nothing. Finally clicked a little last year. He's no Judon. If someone was willing to invest a 2 or 3 in him I would grab it. Maybe he will continue to develop but I thought he lacked instinct.

It would be a Bill move. Idk will Bill really play him full-time for a season? I like Uche and have been asking for him to be "unleashed" for a while now. Just saying not sure how Bill feels about him even after a big year. It's a deep Edge class and have to make sure the offense is on point even if we have to take from the defense a little.

 

[Crazy World of Troy Brown]

Watched the whole TCU-Oklahoma game. (only way to evaluate, because of situations), I gave Harrison a Incomplete, nothing there because of score, TCU blew them out, and because of that Anton Harrison, went against a 3 man front, along with a back-up Edge most of 2nd half. Need another game, looks like he has some footwork. Need more, so far my boy is from Tenn. Darnell Wright, followed by Skoronski.

 

[Crazy World of Troy Brown]

Watched the condensed version of 2021 Michigan - Michigan St game, 3 things hit me.
Skoronski is a controlled animal, geat athlete.
Andrew Stueber could surprise folks at RT.
Jaylen Reed not getting enough attention.

 

[PowerRunRevival]

Watched the condensed version of 2021 Michigan - Michigan St game, 3 things hit me.
Skoronski is a controlled animal, geat athlete.
Andrew Stueber could surprise folks at RT.
Jaylen Reed not getting enough attention.

I don't understand this post. Only one of the players you mentioned play for the teams you mentioned (Skornski played for Northwestern and Reed played for Penn State).

 

[BelizePats]

I don't understand this post. Only one of the players you mentioned play for the teams you mentioned (Skornski played for Northwestern and Reed played for Penn State).

Thank you for this. It made no sense to me.

 

[Crazy World of Troy Brown]

I don't understand this post. Only one of the players you mentioned play for the teams you mentioned (Skornski played for Northwestern and Reed played for Penn State).

Jayden Reed.

 

[captain stone]

One name that hasn't been mentioned almost anywhere is Wanya Morris. He's just about as talented as anyone in the class. Extremely high expectations at Tenn. 5* guy coming out HS. I mean this kid has a skill set but again just never took it to the next level. Sometimes I don't have "fancy" answers or even a answer. He just loses his **** in pp too often. Just falls apart too often but will flash at times. He's powerful, agile and takes great angles at times but he'll get lazy at the waist. Fluid mover. He flashes some sweet footwork at times. Could be a good RT or RG with some real tlc and good coaching.

Agree... This dude has Left Tackle measurables at height/weight/arm length/wingspan... Didn't like his pass-protection snaps at RT nearly as much, unfortunately...

 

[State]

Matthew Bergeron. Elite run blocker. Needs more consistency in pass protection. That scares off some teams.

Matthew Bergeron Draft and Combine Prospect Profile | NFL.com

All Combine and Draft-Related Analysis, News, Video, and Biographical Information for Matthew Bergeron

www.nfl.com

Klemm, with proper Dante-like coaching, you could turn this young man into an above average OT.

 

[upstater1]

Wow, I like the Uche trade idea. I was big on him as a rookie. Gave us nothing. Finally clicked a little last year. He's no Judon. If someone was willing to invest a 2 or 3 in him I would grab it. Maybe he will continue to develop but I thought he lacked instinct.

I would argue a 2nd for Uche is low. Given his sack total; he appears to be coming into his own. If a team in the lower half of the 1st is looking for a pass rusher, they would have instant impact with Uche.