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BGC 2021 Pats Big Board - Draft Thread

2020 Patriots Season:
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upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
Justin Fields
He's very coachable and wants to be coached. You see it in his behavior and actions on & off the sidelines. Engaged, focused. He's been working with former/current NFL players & coaches for years. He wants to be pushed and knows this isn't his final form. He knows there's a lot of work to do to get there. Whether it's reading concepts, throwing on the move or working on other issues hes a worker that doesn't run from mistakes. Everything on & off the record from OSU coaches have been positive.


Plenty of arm talent. Routinely shows off the ability to make NFL throws. Plenty of strength and velocity. Tight windows, far hash ropes, easy gas to touch 60 yards. In terms of the tough NFL passes, he makes them routinely. Nice touch, placement & accuracy. Can drop it over a shoulder, fit it on the sidelines, throw a change up - feather it over a defender and before the lines. Can also thread the needle, fire it through traffic. Arm talent is ++.


Almost a 3/4 throwing motion. Tight front shoulder, smooth delivery that could be a lil quicker but it's fluid & efficient. Ball jumps out. Slight hitch at times up top. Overall clean & effective. Could it improve, sure but show me who's couldn't at this stage to some degree. Base is solid - set, plays with enough bounce to evade. Nice balance in his lower half, allows him to really push, drive the ball. Can slide & disappear from would-be rushers, smooth lateral footwork but you don't see enough of it. It's there though. Need to see more. Would like to see him help himself more here. Creating, reworking a platform. Overall pretty clean but I believe his lower half could be more involved. Back foot comes up too often imo. Nice footwork but could faster, a little more efficient. Overall again pretty good but could improve some.


Fields plays with a toughness that should be unquestioned. It gets him into trouble at times imo. He might think he's a little bigger and faster than he is but he has "all in" mentality and toughness. There's no "fake it" here. He'll stand in the pocket or run for a first down, take a hit no problem. Frustrating at times but you don't win by playing scared in the NFL. Funnel and channel it. Designed runs, know when to toss it away, ease up on the contact. I could see him playing in the northeast. Has the size, arm and mentality imo. I think there's a "chip on the shoulder" angle here. Been tied with Lawrence forever. All this pre-draft nonsense, I'm sure Bill would have him on a mission.


Improved throwing on the move big time since HS. Maybe Lawrence's biggest asset is throwing to his non-dominant side. Fields has a lot of potential on the move as well. Bootlegs, scrambling, misdirection he's a big time threat with his athleticism and arm. 4.4 speed. Natural and comfortable here. Also saw improvement on finding his hot read and being quicker there. Good sign, I saw him fire the ball out many times here when he recognized pressure or had to go hot.


Pocket presence could definitely improve. Too often late to react, improvise at times. It's there and you see it but the feel and reaction need to be faster. I get the sense that at times he sees it coming but just thinks his athleticism and strength will be enough to make something happen. A lot of times that works. Those instances are coachable and can be worked out. These are mostly in front of him, he'll pretend like he doesn't see them and move at the last moment. Those can improve. It's the edge where his feel is really hit or miss. That is definitely a point of emphasis imo. Great command, vocal and active. They would run difference cadences, have snap issues and he deals with it. Recognizes and adjust pre & post snap. Its obvious he puts in the work. From his ability to work concepts & go through progressions. To his ability to look of certain defenders, know the weak spots in coverage and players to target. Able to do it all in that regard, could be faster. Overall very good but needs to improve his anticipation, need a little hurry up and work.


Needs to pass with anticipation more consistently but has flashed throwing lead shoulder and other examples many times.


Ran a complex system at a young age and excelled in many areas. OSU went away from mesh, we'll "out athlete" you every other play and went to a more vertical based offense. More option routes. More QB-WR on the same page stuff. Fields ran the most complex system out of the big names. Displayed he's the most accurate pocket passer in the class (almost every analytic person out there says Fields is the most accurate passer in the class) who just happens to run a 4.4. Prototype size - Cut up 6'3 225. Proportioned, loose muscles.


Fields has displayed great decision-making, accuracy and command in the pocket with a rifle for an arm. Precise, can hit from any distance on the field without reckless abandon. His pocket presence has to improve but it's not a killer, just a real area for growth.


Fields also has silly athleticism. Athleticism that wasn't always utilized probably imo. At times it looked like he wanted to prove a point hanging in the pocket. Where not talking huge leaps and bounds. Slight advancements with his presence and feel would go a long way.


Prospects like Fields don't come along every year. Pocket passers with a ratio of 60+ passing TD's to less than 10 INT the last two years. Athleticism to make defenses think, hesitate and suffer. He has that killer mentality and again I think Bill could really do work with him. Both have a lot to prove short term and could be a great pair.





I've been sold on Fields and have said so since November. His talent just pops out at me. Love for him to be a Patriot.
 

KontradictioN

Probably the nicest guy on the forum
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2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
I think it is actually fair to keep all the qb's not named Lawrence in the mix as a possibility for the Patriots. I think there is a ton of gamesmanship going on, and we all may be very surprised who goes where.
The top 3 are going to be Lawrence, Wilson, Fields (or Fields/Wilson). SF didn’t give up all of that to move up to #3 and not draft a QB. Short of us trading up to #2, which won’t happen, none of the 3 should be on the big board.
 

moosekill

In the Starting Line-Up
The top 3 are going to be Lawrence, Wilson, Fields (or Fields/Wilson). SF didn’t give up all of that to move up to #3 and not draft a QB. Short of us trading up to #2, which won’t happen, none of the 3 should be on the big board.
I don't disagree with you that these will probably be the three, but at the same time I would not be surprised at all if they weren't, so keep them on the board.
 

Steve:Section 102

A lion isn't concerned with the opinion of sheep

KontradictioN

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2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Do you really think so? He seems like a huge risk. I get what everyone reads, and I know you've been sold on him for sometime. I am really concerned his bust potential.
I legitimately have no idea what they will do. But I don’t see them trading up for any position other than a QB and he will be the only top QB within our trade-up “range” (I.E., outside of the top 3).
 

Steve:Section 102

A lion isn't concerned with the opinion of sheep
I legitimately have no idea what they will do. But I don’t see them trading up for any position other than a QB and he will be the only top QB within our trade-up “range” (I.E., outside of the top 3).
I think the Jones thing to the 49ers is smokescreen. I think they take Fields. Jones was supposed to be as low as a third rounder originally. To me, that's the safe pick. He's a high floor/low ceiling guy.

Who the hell knows? This Lance kid could be great. I'm glad I am not the GM.
 

KontradictioN

Probably the nicest guy on the forum
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2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
I think the Jones thing to the 49ers is smokescreen. I think they take Fields. Jones was supposed to be as low as a third rounder originally. To me, that's the safe pick. He's a high floor/low ceiling guy.

Who the hell knows? This Lance kid could be great. I'm glad I am not the GM.

^^ A full first round mock I just did. Run on QBs in the top 3 then a run on tackles throughout the rest of the first round. Either way, whether they trade up for a QB or stay put, some prime talent will fall to them. The only thing I do not want to see them doing with 10 damn picks is trade down.
 

jmt57

Moderator
Staff member
Stumbled across this article and thought it might fit here in this thread. Thought it was a relatively interesting column (though it may be a bit boring to some of our forum draft gurus).


"Once it's all up vertically at every position, then you look across horizontally. You have a 6.0 grade for linebacker X. Then you follow across on the board and find the guys with the other 6.0 grades,” said Belichick.​
"This part is hard to do. Here you start talking about a corner on the rise versus a center who's a good player but not a good athlete."​
-​
Belichick explained the information-gathering process as it stood in 2004. It’s changed little since. Consistent evaluations are imperative.​
"We want the same eyes to see the same players," Belichick said. "First we scout regionally, then we have our scouts who scout nationally come in and look at those players. [The national scouts] will see all the players on offense, defense, east of the Mississippi, west of the Mississippi. Then by the end of November we break it up and do it positionally.​
"By the time the Combine comes [in March], a regional scout, the national scout, a position scout, a position coach and, ultimately, (then VP of Player Personnel) Scott (Pioli) and I will look at them. We get six or seven looks at a guy. When we put the whole board together, that's where Scott and I and the national scouts come in and start stacking horizontally."​
"There's no shortcut," Belichick said. "You have to see the players. The hard part is when you have bad information. Like when you're scouting a player, looking at him and the guy's playing on an ankle sprain and toughing it out for two weeks and you don't have that info. If you get a player on the wrong games, things like that that can skew information."​
 

BaconGrundleCandy

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If we’re trading up, this is our guy.
Idk I have a feeling on him. I'd be thrilled with either Fields or Lance but Lance would be a binky if I still counted them.

Either one ... Pats fans should be absolutely ecstatic. From Brady - one bad year - to one of these young dudes would be a dream. No band aids, retreads. Start fresh, have a plan and go all in.
 

BaconGrundleCandy

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I think you have to remove Fields. He’s not getting out of the top 3 and the Patriots aren’t going to be trading into the top 3 either. The 49ers didn’t trade up for Jones. They traded up for either Wilson or Fields. Both of them, should they translate to the NFL, would be perfect fits for Shanahan’s offense. He’s a pipe dream.
We'll see, I mean I personally lean that way. Lombardi has been absolutely yelling "no Fields" at 3 along with a few others. Lots of conviction on both sides. I can't imagine trading up for Jones but you know how some of these guys are. Smart af but a few blind spots that get them in trouble at times.

This is an "all in" move though either way, correct? Like you take Jones at 3 you're putting your resume on the table. Same for Fields but again there's soooo much more to work with there imo.
 

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
"There's no shortcut," Belichick said. "You have to see the players. The hard part is when you have bad information. Like when you're scouting a player, looking at him and the guy's playing on an ankle sprain and toughing it out for two weeks and you don't have that info. If you get a player on the wrong games, things like that that can skew information."​

Or like when you take the word of one of your coaching buddies instead of that of your scouts...
 

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
Idk I have a feeling on him. I'd be thrilled with either Fields or Lance but Lance would be a binky if I still counted them.

Either one ... Pats fans should be absolutely ecstatic. From Brady - one bad year - to one of these young dudes would be a dream. No band aids, retreads. Start fresh, have a plan and go all in.

But what is the acceptable cost of going "all in" for these two? Multiple current and future early-round draft picks?
 

BaconGrundleCandy

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I like playing GM and find this part of the year fascinating. My own view of the draft is it’s 90% long term planning unless you have a top 10 potentially franchise changing player in range. I agree with your QB targets and price I would pay for them, as IMO no player is worth what the 9ers gave up. I would be much happier with 3 ugly green then one solid green just because you are more likely to get 2 above average starters versus drafting the next Ryan Leaf, Ja Marcus Russell, or Sam Darnnit. I mean I see the other end of that argument in what drafting a Mahomes does for your team but the risk is too high for my tastes to gamble more then 15, 46, and a future 2nd. That will only get you to 8 or so but if Lance, Pitt, Sewell, or based on your review cuz I was down on him Fields are there, I am running to the podium for that trade.

So more specifically I was hoping to see a mock from you where all the PTP greens are off the board at 15 and the goal was to fill as many long term holes as possible. In my mind the pats have 5 long term holes in QB, OT, LB, CB, and FS and I want two of each player with the thought that usually half of them bust so it increases my odds of getting a starter at each spot. I loved the TE double dip last year for that reason and it kinda played out in Asiasi at least showed some potential while Keene was totally MIA. I mean neither was what I hoped, or we wouldn’t have signed Smith AND Henry, but the philosophy is a good one IMO. I use FA to fill immediate needs so the draft is free to fill long term needs with BPA.

My draft would look something like, just using your names deferring to your far far far more in depth research so I could be very off on value or slots and feel free to correct me when I am

Trade down to 21 picking up 56 LB Z. Collins
46 QB Davis Mills
56 S Grant
96 OT Dan Moore
120 CB Aaron Robinson
122 OT Stone Forsythe
139 LB Derrick Barnes
177 S Brady Breeze
188 WR ISM
197 Is there a fat strong one dimensional run stuffer DT here?
242 Take a shot CB with traits but no production/film
I'd be thrilled with this draft.
i would be pretty happy with that draft, it’s solid, adds a lot of depth, and would drive the Offense!!! Weapons!!! Trade the whole draft for a first round QB!!! Crowd bananas. It’s not flashy but it addresses future holes nicely keeping the team around whoever our QB is playoff worthy. Your thoughts?
Honestly I'd be very happy with that mock draft. I'll put on out soon but I like yours.
 

BaconGrundleCandy

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But what is the acceptable cost of going "all in" for these two? Multiple current and future early-round draft picks?
15 + 2022 1st + 2022 2nd & 5th. I'd do that for Fields or Lance.

We're talking about potential 10-12 year starters. You won't miss a few picks from one draft essentially. We'll have plenty of ammo to continue to build the team up this with like 9 picks left after 15?
 

BaconGrundleCandy

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Stumbled across this article and thought it might fit here in this thread. Thought it was a relatively interesting column (though it may be a bit boring to some of our forum draft gurus).


"Once it's all up vertically at every position, then you look across horizontally. You have a 6.0 grade for linebacker X. Then you follow across on the board and find the guys with the other 6.0 grades,” said Belichick.​
"This part is hard to do. Here you start talking about a corner on the rise versus a center who's a good player but not a good athlete."​
-​
Belichick explained the information-gathering process as it stood in 2004. It’s changed little since. Consistent evaluations are imperative.​
"We want the same eyes to see the same players," Belichick said. "First we scout regionally, then we have our scouts who scout nationally come in and look at those players. [The national scouts] will see all the players on offense, defense, east of the Mississippi, west of the Mississippi. Then by the end of November we break it up and do it positionally.​
"By the time the Combine comes [in March], a regional scout, the national scout, a position scout, a position coach and, ultimately, (then VP of Player Personnel) Scott (Pioli) and I will look at them. We get six or seven looks at a guy. When we put the whole board together, that's where Scott and I and the national scouts come in and start stacking horizontally."​
"There's no shortcut," Belichick said. "You have to see the players. The hard part is when you have bad information. Like when you're scouting a player, looking at him and the guy's playing on an ankle sprain and toughing it out for two weeks and you don't have that info. If you get a player on the wrong games, things like that that can skew information."​
I've noticed this before, certain posters start a thread on something they saw here and pretending they "came across it elsewhere".

Anyway yea that's exactly what I try to do playing Bill/GM. Horizontal board and I think I'm going to make another vertical board. One "value groupings" inspired and the other BPA so to speak.

I love doing it solo, coming at it alone but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't jealous of that type of setting. A place, people that challenge you to think and explain.

I would love to know how each persons particular viewpoints on certain positions come in to play. Athletic vs size. Upside vs NFL ready, pretty sure we know where Bill stands.

I'd love to hear the arguments for prospects graded similarly. Again that's when people's insight really shows imo.

It's a good read for sure even if you're familiar with the stuff. I'm a sucker for all that stuff.
 

Joker

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Lombardi tweeted out that Matt Jones is locked in at 3 with SF...rather adamant about it, calling the rest of the twitter "experts" idiots. How locked in IS Lombardi? He's way out on a limb here...
 

BaconGrundleCandy

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Lombardi tweeted out that Matt Jones is locked in at 3 with SF...rather adamant about it, calling the rest of the twitter "experts" idiots. How locked in IS Lombardi? He's way out on a limb here...
He's been on that track for a few months now and like you adamant about it, not just floating it. Simms as well.

Mike has been absolutely clear though. He's definitely putting some credibility or w/e you want to call it on the line.

I keep asking myself ... "Is he that plugged in here and everywhere else" ??

Jete taking Wilson & SF takes Jones would be perfect for us though. Couldn't ask for a better scenario.
 

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