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DRAFT BGC 2021 Pats Big Board - Draft Thread

2020 Patriots Season:
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BaconGrundleCandy

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Ihmir Smith-Marsette is someone I really like for us. Just missed a third round grade from me. Think he's someone who could come in, contribute and have an impact in rounds 3-5 if available.

He understands how to manipulate coverage, how to set up his target location. His stem(s) are pretty nice, again really nice job setting himself up for success. Nice understanding of what's in fronts of him in terms of coverage.
Like his r/r qualities. Refined but adapt, makes it is own. Out breaking stuff sticks out. Very nice at the top of route. Fakes, rocker steps, w/e it is he can create space a few different ways. Helps he's shifty & quick.

Inside/outside option along with return skills. Can take a few handoffs. He can fly. Quick, can accelerate and has very good play speed. He loves taking chunks out of the defense. Loves hitting on deep stuff. Watches opposing coverage but focuses on man traits. How physical someone is, leverage they play with, long speed.

Creative, efficient at times with the ball in his hands. Really good understanding for the play, down & distance, what the situation calls for.

At times overwhelmed by physical coverage. At the line and in route. Dont see him as a true #2 but a really good 3. Someone you move around, look to matchup against a certain type of DB. Free release, manipulated touches & deep shots at first to adjust to the NFL. He has to get stronger, understand how to get open off of contact, better plan at the line. He's not strong enough to really make it a fight and win. Has to get his hands and feet in concert at the line.

Love his potential though as a #3, Dionte Johnson type of player. Can really have an impact but limited, clear issues to overcome. Hit or miss at times, early on.


 

One-If-By-Sea

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
Malcom Brown (not comparing him to Barmore) was a solid starter for 4 years - yet it was arguably the least valuable use of 1st round pick over the last decade and more incl Harry. Guys like that are available every FA for a few M$.
Derek Wolfe was signed for 3y/12M.

Dominique Easley???
 

BaconGrundleCandy

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Your call :)

I wouldn't be surprised either unfortunately and it is the 1st round scenario i “fear“ the most.
Its hardly a missing piece or need and its not position of value to draft in the 1st unless its a special player like VW, VV . and you have him on the field 70-80% of the time (which happened only with VW). Normally Pats DTs have 50% snaps or less..

Malcom Brown (not comparing him to Barmore) was a solid starter for 4 years - yet it was arguably the least valuable use of 1st round pick over the last decade and more incl Harry. Guys like that are available every FA for a few M$.
Derek Wolfe was signed for 3y/12M.

So depends how highly you project him (bc there's still a lot of work with him) & how much playing time you'd give him..
but at #15 it would be a shame since its the rare time and probably the last last time under BB drafting so high so id hope for a value position.
I share a lot of same thoughts and concerns. I don't have a 1st on him so I certainly wouldn't take him at 15.

Rn we don't have a lot of pass rush up the middle though. Not a lot of young talent, he's someone who could come in on passing downs right away. I'd like to add another IDL even though we play 1/2 IDL so much. Missing piece might have been too much but again we could upgrade the rush in that area.

I would go Nixon before him anyway. Definitely wouldn't mind waiting on Brown or someone else in the 2nd or 3rd.
 

BaconGrundleCandy

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How do you know he is as fast as anyone in the draft if he hasn’t run? He certainly was as fast as anyone in the draft. Beyond that you are taking a risk, slight though it may be, that he is all healed up.
I'm not worried about the injuries at all tbh and even less about his speed.

In regards to the speed I've seen him run against Ruggs on multiple occasions. On grass, track and more than hold his own. All he does is run away from people in college. I don't remember anyone running him down or close. Supposedly almost 22mph here. He's a speed demon.

Makes perfect sense to me. Add him to our offense and its a whole new ballgame. We're literally a QB away from a championship-caliber offense. If we can't get a QB I want to get as close as possible to a "championship" unit on either side.


 

moosekill

In the Starting Line-Up
BGC, if you were drafting, given the players you have on the Patriots board, what would you do, stay or trade up, and would you only trade up for a QB?
 

pazrul72

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
I'd like to use this thread to get a little more specific. Some think it's impossible to figure out what Bill will do. I know guys like Phil Perry and I'm sure others have a list of perfect pats or something like that.

I do the same but take it a step further and try to put a board together resembling what a big board would look like for us. I've always tried to highlight Patriot-Type Players/Prospects but the board gets more specific with who (prospects) & how much (value).

I put the it together using a combo athletic profile / testing, my opinion on who would fit here, where their value is and a little bit of need, current-future roster make-up.

2021 Patriot-Type Big Board

There's a horizontal & vertical board. The vertical board is "value groupings" inspired or coordinated. I'm going to do another vertical board at some point, more BPA inspired / coordinated but I think this is a pretty decent board. I'll try to cut down some. A few names might be added or subtracted but this is a good 90-95% done. It's not so much someone popping out of the woodwork at this point. There are sleepers anymore. Just making a case for who should be on/off.
View attachment 32214

I'd like to use this thread to talk about who we want off the board. If someone isn't on that belongs on there please state your case, for or against. Doesn't have to be a pin-point presentation. I could be wrong or miss something.

Their fit here, usage - short & long term. Help me figure out who we need this year and next year.

Looking at that prospects, value, who would you be happy with for the first 3-4 picks for example?

What does the board tell you, how would you attack it with all our picks, needs and who's available?

I'm going to write up and drop some notes from prospects off the list. Please ask anything questions about any prospect, especially on the board.

Also here are my draft grades
2011-2021
First off incredible work, very helpful to guys like me who watch zero college football but at least want to know names and why we like them. Just a personal philosophy of mine I don’t expect rookies to contribute much if at all, so short of a top 10 can’t miss superstar you have to have, I want to look at needs year 2. So I would actually be really happy drafting any of OT, LB, CB, or FS at 15 it’s more about getting a good starter then a particular need Just due to players at all of those spots being either old, or FA next year. So looking at your list I didn’t see safety’s split into the fast middle fielder type versus the small LB play up in the box type. I would love to get a guy who could study under McCourty for a year and be plan A for when he retires. Is there a guy like that in round 2-3? Same question for ILB in the Hightower mold. With it sounding like a deep O line draft I would be excited drafting 2 tackle types in the 4-7 round in the hopes one can be a solid starter with a year of seasoning. Any particular player that you could see with that potential?

Basically what I am wondering is assume the top 5 QBs, 3 WRs, Pitt, 2 OT, 2 CBs, and Parsons are off the board at 15 and you want to fill as many holes for next year as you can in this draft. What would your ideal draft, with specific players in a reasonable spot, look like?
 
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BaconGrundleCandy

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BGC, if you were drafting, given the players you have on the Patriots board, what would you do, stay or trade up, and would you only trade up for a QB?
I'm only trading up for a QB. I would consider for Pitts bc he's so dynamic, young & talented. He's not just a TE or WR. I floated the idea of a 3TE set weeks ago with Pitts, Henry and Smith. All are so versatile I'd love to give it a shot. Each can win from the slot/X. Each can win inline, detached, backfield. It would be an absolute nightmare for defenses.

Wynn - Onwenu - A - Shaq - Brown - Henry

Smith slightly detached or slot with NA out wide same side. Pitts split out iso opposite side. Cam & Harris in the backfield. We could bully teams in the run and pass while having NA stretch the field.
You get the idea lots of options with Pitts. Dude is only 20 or 21 at the start of the season. Longest wingspan ever recorded lol. He can do it all.
So I'd trade up for him, maybe 2-3 spots for Sewell but I'm not giving up much in terms of capital. I'll do a second if no one is biting and that's good enough, somehow but I'm not giving up a lot and it would only be for those two players.

So for me it's ..
1)QB - Fields or Lance, I love both. Fuzzy feelings for Lance like I had for Jackson but Fields graded out higher. I really like both and would trade 15 - 2022 1st & 2nd + 5th. Somewhere in that range. Significant but not a money truck.

2A)Looking at the board, hoping a Chase, Waddle, Horn, Smith, Surtain, Slater are at 15. A few others for sure but they're the main group, like 5-7 guys after the QB's. Get first round value & someone who can help this year. Again those above fit the bill.

2B)Stand still listen to offers, if someone offers me a future first, 2nd or 3rd round pick this year for 15 I'm taking it. Maybe a 2nd & 3rd from this year plus a 5th next year.

If we do trade down this year, let's say mid 20's - early 30's. Which I wouldn't mind at all I'm loving where I'm at. I'm looking for to grab three of Newsome, Moore(s) E or R, Jenkins-Darrisaw-Radunz-Brown, Stokes, Bateman, Paye-Oweh, Basham, Nixon, B Brown, AVT-Leatherwood, Meinerz, Shi Smith, Dyami Brown, Harris-Williams/ETN? ... Basically the guys in the blue, ugly green on the sheet. Get as many of those guys at high impact positions as possible - OL/WR/CB/Pass Rush.
 

patsfanfromoversea

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2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
I share a lot of same thoughts and concerns. I don't have a 1st on him so I certainly wouldn't take him at 15.

Rn we don't have a lot of pass rush up the middle though. Not a lot of young talent, he's someone who could come in on passing downs right away. I'd like to add another IDL even though we play 1/2 IDL so much. Missing piece might have been too much but again we could upgrade the rush in that area.

I would go Nixon before him anyway. Definitely wouldn't mind waiting on Brown or someone else in the 2nd or 3rd.
I guess i would be ok with Barmore if they trade down to 26 or later in that area and feel they can develop Barmore either into a consistent passing down threat or a three down linemen since he has nice size weight combination for that too. It depends of course how the board falls at 15 and who is willing to trade to 15..But this is one of my least favorite scenarios
 

BaconGrundleCandy

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First off incredible work, very helpful to guys like me who watch zero college football but at least want to know names and why we like them. Just a personal philosophy of mine I don’t expect rookies to contribute much if at all, so short of a top 10 can’t miss superstar you have to have, I want to look at needs year 2. So I would actually be really happy drafting any of OT, LB, CB, or FS at 15 it’s more about getting a good starter then a particular need Just due to players at all of those spots being either old, or FA next year. So looking at your list I didn’t see safety’s split into the fast middle fielder type versus the small LB play up in the box type. I would love to get a guy who could study under McCourty for a year and be plan A for when he retires. Is there a guy like that in round 2-3?
Single high impact guys are rare nowadays. So much responsibility, range and trust in the open field.
Maybe a Grant, Wiggins or Gillespie,

Maybe I'll add SS/Hybrid, Single high when I get a chance.
Same question for ILB in the Hightower mold.
Hightower is such a unique player. Can line up inside, outside, do a decent enough job in coverage, line up on the edge, blitz. He's just too unique. Maybe Barnes, I really like him. He just missed a 2nd round grade for me I believe. Hes so versatile, love his game.
Z Collins is more KJ Wright, Bobby Wagner than Hightower. He's not overly physical but extremely versatile. Very similar skill set as 54. I love Werner from OSU. Mcgrone, Monty Rice, Erroll Thompson are others I like that might have a shot.
With it sounding like a deep O line draft I would be excited drafting 2 tackle types in the 4-7 round in the hopes one can be a solid starter with a year of seasoning. Any particular player that you could see with that potential?
Absolutely. Let's expand it to round 3 and say 3-5 though to give us the best shot in terms of where and when the talent will come off. Dan Moore, Stone Forsythe, Landon Young, Josh Ball, Tommy Doyle, Larnel Coleman. I'd be very happy with any.
Basically what I am wondering is assume the top 5 QBs, 3 WRs, Pitt, 2 OT, 2 CBs, and Parsons are off the board at 15 and you want to fill as many holes for next year as you can in this draft. What would your ideal draft, with specific players in a reasonable spot, look like?
I outlined a few scenarios above about trading down. Trying to nab as many ugly green & blue players as possible. Basically 8-10 guys at 15. If they're gone, trade down and work the board to grab as many quality prospects as you can. 2-3 top 30-40 guys.

Appreciate your post. This is exactly what I want to talk about. Short term vs long? Mixture of both? What positions should we target this year for next.

Hope I answered your question. Keep them coming and add some more or your own thoughts.

This is a really talented draft. Maybe not the deepest but all Pats fans should be excited. We have a tons of picks & an already improved team from last year.
 

patsfanfromoversea

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2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
I'm not worried about the injuries at all tbh and even less about his speed.

In regards to the speed I've seen him run against Ruggs on multiple occasions. On grass, track and more than hold his own. All he does is run away from people in college. I don't remember anyone running him down or close. Supposedly almost 22mph here. He's a speed demon.

Makes perfect sense to me. Add him to our offense and its a whole new ballgame. We're literally a QB away from a championship-caliber offense. If we can't get a QB I want to get as close as possible to a "championship" unit on either side.


I would trade up for him to the 11/12 range...He can give our offense a threat which helps the whole offense. Yards after Catch ability, deep shots, stretch the field for our run game/slot wR/TE to attack the MOF. I wouldn't even use him as a Returner tbh. Wouldn't risk the injury there and Gunner is a good returner. Keep Waddle healthy for our offense imo. He and Agholor would be a great tandem as our wideouts I imagine. Having more than one deep threat is extremely helpful. Both Agholor and Waddle on the field could provide nightmares for other DC.
 

JarOfMayo51

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Interested in hearing about Parsons too.. not a scheme fit?

Not shocked at Barrimore. Fools gold. Can get similar production from a later pick / udfa.

been seeing barmore fall in mocks a lot more recently.. he was going top 15 for awhile in all kinds of mocks i tried, but noticed lately hes falling back into 2nd round

Zaven Collins is another i see starting to fall out of 1st into 2nd

So hard to predict who will go where, etc.. but it sure is fun to do the mocks!
 

pazrul72

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
Single high impact guys are rare nowadays. So much responsibility, range and trust in the open field.
Maybe a Grant, Wiggins or Gillespie,

Maybe I'll add SS/Hybrid, Single high when I get a chance.

Hightower is such a unique player. Can line up inside, outside, do a decent enough job in coverage, line up on the edge, blitz. He's just too unique. Maybe Barnes, I really like him. He just missed a 2nd round grade for me I believe. Hes so versatile, love his game.
Z Collins is more KJ Wright, Bobby Wagner than Hightower. He's not overly physical but extremely versatile. Very similar skill set as 54. I love Werner from OSU. Mcgrone, Monty Rice, Erroll Thompson are others I like that might have a shot.

Absolutely. Let's expand it to round 3 and say 3-5 though to give us the best shot in terms of where and when the talent will come off. Dan Moore, Stone Forsythe, Landon Young, Josh Ball, Tommy Doyle, Larnel Coleman. I'd be very happy with any.

I outlined a few scenarios above about trading down. Trying to nab as many ugly green & blue players as possible. Basically 8-10 guys at 15. If they're gone, trade down and work the board to grab as many quality prospects as you can. 2-3 top 30-40 guys.

Appreciate your post. This is exactly what I want to talk about. Short term vs long? Mixture of both? What positions should we target this year for next.

Hope I answered your question. Keep them coming and add some more or your own thoughts.

This is a really talented draft. Maybe not the deepest but all Pats fans should be excited. We have a tons of picks & an already improved team from last year.
I like playing GM and find this part of the year fascinating. My own view of the draft is it’s 90% long term planning unless you have a top 10 potentially franchise changing player in range. I agree with your QB targets and price I would pay for them, as IMO no player is worth what the 9ers gave up. I would be much happier with 3 ugly green then one solid green just because you are more likely to get 2 above average starters versus drafting the next Ryan Leaf, Ja Marcus Russell, or Sam Darnnit. I mean I see the other end of that argument in what drafting a Mahomes does for your team but the risk is too high for my tastes to gamble more then 15, 46, and a future 2nd. That will only get you to 8 or so but if Lance, Pitt, Sewell, or based on your review cuz I was down on him Fields are there, I am running to the podium for that trade.

So more specifically I was hoping to see a mock from you where all the PTP greens are off the board at 15 and the goal was to fill as many long term holes as possible. In my mind the pats have 5 long term holes in QB, OT, LB, CB, and FS and I want two of each player with the thought that usually half of them bust so it increases my odds of getting a starter at each spot. I loved the TE double dip last year for that reason and it kinda played out in Asiasi at least showed some potential while Keene was totally MIA. I mean neither was what I hoped, or we wouldn’t have signed Smith AND Henry, but the philosophy is a good one IMO. I use FA to fill immediate needs so the draft is free to fill long term needs with BPA.

My draft would look something like, just using your names deferring to your far far far more in depth research so I could be very off on value or slots and feel free to correct me when I am

Trade down to 21 picking up 56 LB Z. Collins
46 QB Davis Mills
56 S Grant
96 OT Dan Moore
120 CB Aaron Robinson
122 OT Stone Forsythe
139 LB Derrick Barnes
177 S Brady Breeze
188 WR ISM
197 Is there a fat strong one dimensional run stuffer DT here?
242 Take a shot CB with traits but no production/film

i would be pretty happy with that draft, it’s solid, adds a lot of depth, and would drive the Offense!!! Weapons!!! Trade the whole draft for a first round QB!!! Crowd bananas. It’s not flashy but it addresses future holes nicely keeping the team around whoever our QB is playoff worthy. Your thoughts?
 

JarOfMayo51

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I'm not worried about the injuries at all tbh and even less about his speed.

In regards to the speed I've seen him run against Ruggs on multiple occasions. On grass, track and more than hold his own. All he does is run away from people in college. I don't remember anyone running him down or close. Supposedly almost 22mph here. He's a speed demon.

Makes perfect sense to me. Add him to our offense and its a whole new ballgame. We're literally a QB away from a championship-caliber offense. If we can't get a QB I want to get as close as possible to a "championship" unit on either side.



thats insanely fast... just for some reference, Devin McCourty ran about 19.6 mph out of the draft and he's considered really fast

holy cow indeed
 
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captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
Trade down to 21 picking up 56 LB Z. Collins
46 QB Davis Mills
56 S Grant
96 OT Dan Moore
120 CB Aaron Robinson
122 OT Stone Forsythe
139 LB Derrick Barnes
177 S Brady Breeze
188 WR ISM
197 Is there a fat strong one dimensional run stuffer DT here?

My preference is BYU's Khyiris Tonga, but if already gone then U of Florida's Terdarrell Slaton if he's still available.
 
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KontradictioN

Probably the nicest guy on the forum
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I think you have to remove Fields. He’s not getting out of the top 3 and the Patriots aren’t going to be trading into the top 3 either. The 49ers didn’t trade up for Jones. They traded up for either Wilson or Fields. Both of them, should they translate to the NFL, would be perfect fits for Shanahan’s offense. He’s a pipe dream.
 

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