Ben Watson Suspended 4 games to Start the Season

[Mack Herron]

Clearly you couldn't be bothered to actually look at what I posted. Not gonna bother with yours..

Actually, I did read your link. Did you notice they do not provide any references or links to scientific studies such as the link I provided (that you say you cannot be bothered with)? My only point is that there are no scientific studies to support the claims made on this web site. People are free to believe whatever you like, of course. Big Pharma told docs oxyxodone was not addictive and many believed it.

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[QuantumMechanic]

A good example of how the give and take goes (this is with respect to substance abuse and PEDs), from Brandt in SI. Note that HGH testing came about because the players wanted higher THC test thresholds.

Despite continuing legislative (and societal) acceptance, the 2011 Collective Bargaining Agreement—negotiated by the owners and the players—still tests players for marijuana and disciplines them for positive tests. Many fans (and media) erroneously compare and contrast penalties for marijuana use to those for things like deflated footballs or domestic violence. In the latter cases, the Commissioner has wide discretion; with marijuana use, it is collectively bargained. Indeed, the topic of marijuana use represents one of the only things the NFL and NFLPA have agreed on since the negotiation of the 2011 CBA.

The two sides agreed to a revision that raised the threshold required to test positive for marijuana from 15 nanograms of THC per milliliter to 35 nanograms (for comparison’s sake, Major League Baseball uses a threshold of 50 nanograms, and the World Anti-Doping Agency uses a threshold of 150 nanograms). The relaxation of the threshold for marijuana, such that it was, answered player concerns for invoking a positive test due to second-hand smoke. The NFL, however, did extract a concession for that, with a revised policy that now includes testing for HGH.

As to the logistics and timing of marijuana testing in the NFL, this has been much publicized: It is not a drug test; it is an intelligence test. Players who have not previously tested positive are only tested once a year, and only during a four-month offseason window that begins on April 20 (yes, 4/20, maybe the NFL and NFLPA do have a sense of humor) and August 9.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Actually, I did read your link. Did you notice they do not provide any references or links to scientific studies such as the link I provided (that you say you cannot be bothered with)? My only point is that there are no scientific studies to support the claims made on this web site. People are free to believe whatever you like, of course. Big Pharma told docs oxyxodone was not addictive and many believed it.

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Mark (and I haven't read all your responses, apologies if I'm misunderstanding), is it your/some studies contention that Test/ Test variants don't do the following: reduce body fat beyond genetic potential, increase muscle density beyond genetic potential, increase muscle size beyond genetic potential, harden bones/skeletal? (with potential to be way beyond. and among other things such as energy and libido)

Assuming that isn't your contention(those are factual), is it hard to see where a muscle increaser, skeletal reinforcement could have significant abilities to heal when used right, studied properly? IMHO the potential for well being is obvious.

This subject hits a little home for me -- not proud of it though not ashamed either(simply young and dumb, everyone in that scene was doing it, even us regular but much more casual workout-ers) -- because in the day me and the unofficial mrs straggler (also my workout partner) both used it/variant (while it is an androgenic it absolutely does not mean a woman cannot use it). While there were a number of potential other factors that could have been the root causes, we were both feeling better mentally and physically than at any time. I'm not suggesting take it (if I could go back I wouldn't have) but the negative rap it got/has due to gross overuse and abuse as well as heavily delving into sticky social questions, IMHO, caused what could be of potentially great medical use to be shied away from. IMHO a boost to the high range of normal (gender and age relative) would make a lot of men and women feel better without the narcotic/fake high that is otherwise used and at virtually no cost to good health (that last one is very strictly just my opinion).

 

[Mack Herron]

is it hard to see where a muscle increaser, skeletal reinforcement could have significant abilities to heal when used right, studied properly?

All I am saying is that the proper studies showing how to use it right do not exist. If they do exist, you need only provide them.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

All I am saying is that the proper studies showing how to use it right do not exist. If they do exist, you need only provide them.

Fair enough. I honestly don't know if there are or are not established guidelines (the information I posted on it could be outdated or I'm mis-remembering a little of the specifics, fyi, but it should be pretty accurate). But I'd say again that the facts of what it can do is definite and stark, and IMHO the bad rap from gross misuse/over use as well as it stepping into social questions make pharma see it as too much of a hot potato to pursue. Yet when you have a substance found in all adults (naturally occurring) and it can have dramatic building/generative effect on the muscle & skeleton(among others), IMHO it's a shame that it can't be more greatly pursued due to other than medical reasons.

One other thing I'd add is checking for the variants (the synthetics with a step removed or added to the natural occurring). I suspect Anvar will have seen more research. It is(or was) the 'mildest' in terms of Anabolic potential as well as the troublesome Androgenic potential - thereby making it the 'easiest' to use.

 

[supafly]

OK, sorry if this has been explained before this, but has Watson ever had a bad test before. There was a time when you got the 4 game suspension after your SECOND bad test. Is that not the case now?

Pretty sure PED use has always been a 4 game suspension, Ken, at least if we’re discussing the most recent CBA or the recent era. It’s why Edelman received a 4 game suspension on his first offense, last season.

Maybe you’re thinking of a recreational drug suspension/failed test?