Belichick (via Howe) also claims be didn’t want to draft Mac Jones

[archstanton543]

333-178
31-13 playoffs
Salary cap era

347-173-6 for Shula.

The pure W-L record doesn't take into account playoff wins or era.

I'm not saying I agree with 1960's use of pure W-L. I'm just saying this is the logic behind it.

 

[upstater1]

No. It's not lame. No matter who, what when and why. Bill was the GM, he controlled all roster related decisions. So Kraft was paying bill 25 million a year not to make roster decisions by your logic? In the words of a great HC that couldn't win without a QB.. " it is what it is "...

This is patently untrue. He was told powers would be taken away.
It makes total sense that Belichick would prefer Jakobi to a guy like juJu because Meyers is precisely the kind of WR BB always preferred. Gets open, moves to sticks, keeps the offense on schedule.

Why was Kraft paying $25m a year? You haven't looked at coaches' pay lately? Josh McDaniels was making $12m a year in Las Vegas.

 

[upstater1]

347-173-6 for Shula.

The pure W-L record doesn't take into account playoff wins or era.

I'm not saying I agree with 1960's use of pure W-L. I'm just saying this is the logic behind it.

Salary cap era is different, something everyone acknowledges, but Shula didn't win as many Super Bowls. If you're not counting winning them in your assessment, then what the heck are you doing?

 

[archstanton543]

Salary cap era is different, something everyone acknowledges, but Shula didn't win as many Super Bowls. If you're not counting winning them in your assessment, then what the heck are you doing?

Did you not read the last two sentences of my post? If you have a problem with the logic 1960 is using, take it up with him.

 

[Rob0729]

Trade for Fields? What?

I don't get the infatuation with Fields. He has shown brief flashes of being a really good QB, but mostly he has been mediocre. He is a horrible passer who has the ability to run. He is not much better as a passer than he was as a rookie. I don't see him as a franchise QB.

If the Pats want a franchise QB and draft Harrison, they are better off signing Kirk Cousins than trading for Fields.

 

[sb1]

Bill wanted to play Malcolm Butler in the Super Bowl but Kraft was the one who ordered him benched. Wow!

 

[Rob0729]

Lame.

Kraft announced he was taking away some of Bill's power for a different approach. None of this is a mystery.

And if you're going to run down every personnel decision that doesn't work, you're going to be miserable for the rest of the time you're a fan of the Patriots. (He wanted Jakobi, by the way, not JuJu). And Lowe came in after our starting LT was hurt, as well as the 2 backups. Lowe was the best we could find after the season had already started and 4 tackles were injured.

Kraft never said he was taking away power. He said they were changing how they were approaching the draft in 2021. He didn't elaborate in any way how the Pats were going to do that. He never said he was taking power away from Belichick.

For all we know, he was talking about how they evaluate players and what skill sets they would put emphasis on. It is generally understood that Belichick put a high emphasis on coachability and being well rounded. For example, he puts a high emphasis on the ability to block for a WR. The thing is a lot of the most talented WRs are not great blockers. So it took a lot of WRs off the board that end up being very productive elsewhere. And also a lot of WRs are not the most coachable because they have egos. And those guys are eliminated too.

We do know that in that draft they put more of an emphasis on speed. Maybe that is what Kraft was talking about.

 

[sb1]

347-173-6 for Shula.

The pure W-L record doesn't take into account playoff wins or era.

I'm not saying I agree with 1960's use of pure W-L. I'm just saying this is the logic behind it.

Sounds like Edelman doesn't think BB is the best coach of all time yet and that's the reason why.

I love coach. I wish him the best. I hope he gets that record so I can put on my resume that I played with the best receiver of all time (Moss), the best quarterback of all time (Brady), and I played with the best football coach of all time.

 

[upstater1]

I don't get the infatuation with Fields. He has shown brief flashes of being a really good QB, but mostly he has been mediocre. He is a horrible passer who has the ability to run. He is not much better as a passer than he was as a rookie. I don't see him as a franchise QB.

If the Pats want a franchise QB and draft Harrison, they are better off signing Kirk Cousins than trading for Fields.

He showed a great deal of accuracy at Ohio State, passing wasn't the problem for him. He was actually better than Stroud there.

Both of them had better receivers at Ohio State than Fields has in the pros, so that made a difference.

The idea with Fields might be that Eberflus & the previous OC aren't putting him in optimal conditions.

And there are things that he needs to work on, like getting rid of the ball, holding the ball too long.

 

[upstater1]

Kraft never said he was taking away power. He said they were changing how they were approaching the draft in 2021. He didn't elaborate in any way how the Pats were going to do that. He never said he was taking power away from Belichick.

For all we know, he was talking about how they evaluate players and what skill sets they would put emphasis on. It is generally understood that Belichick put a high emphasis on coachability and being well rounded. For example, he puts a high emphasis on the ability to block for a WR. The thing is a lot of the most talented WRs are not great blockers. So it took a lot of WRs off the board that end up being very productive elsewhere. And also a lot of WRs are not the most coachable because they have egos. And those guys are eliminated too.

We do know that in that draft they put more of an emphasis on speed. Maybe that is what Kraft was talking about.

I've read several articles that this meant Belichick would sometimes have to accede to the scouts.

By the way, before people say Belichick is leaking this stuff, it must be acknowledged that there are older articles from September even showing that Belichick was not making SOME final decisions. Like keeping Jakobi.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Bill wanted to play Malcolm Butler in the Super Bowl but Kraft was the one who ordered him benched. Wow!

What's the source of this?

 

[Rob0729]

He showed a great deal of accuracy at Ohio State, passing wasn't the problem for him. He was actually better than Stroud there.

Both of them had better receivers at Ohio State than Fields has in the pros, so that made a difference.

The idea with Fields might be that Eberflus & the previous OC aren't putting him in optimal conditions.

And there are things that he needs to work on, like getting rid of the ball, holding the ball too long.

Mac Jones was extremely accurate in college. Far more so than Fields. Now that Belichick is gone, maybe we should give Mac one more chance at starting rather than trading for a less accurate Fields. Belichick clearly didn't put Mac in optimal conditions.

And no, I am not advocating bringing back Mac. I am just using the same logic you are using on Fields for Mac.

 

[Rob0729]

I've read several articles that this meant Belichick would sometimes have to accede to the scouts.

By the way, before people say Belichick is leaking this stuff, it must be acknowledged that there are older articles from September even showing that Belichick was not making SOME final decisions. Like keeping Jakobi.

I have never seen an article that said it was that Belichick had to accede to the scouts. Belichick had final say over personnel. If Kraft took that away, there would have been far more rumblings about it before now. I cannot see Belichick being stripped of final say on draft picks and just taking it.

And the Meyers story said Belichick took the advice of his scouting staff. It never said he was overruled and didn't have a say in letting Meyers go in favor for JuJu.

 

[Spiral]

So this means they would have drafted Mills in the second round instead of Barmore. Anyone OK with that?

 

[203Pat]

Lol so Team Bill is trying to take a victory lap but Bill's alternative was Davis Mills?

 

[50-yard-line]

So this means they would have drafted Mills in the second round instead of Barmore. Anyone OK with that?

It means they likely would have traded 15 for a later first and something else, taken Barmore in late 1 and an extra pick or two.

Mills was taken in the early 3rd, iirc, and was the eighth and last QB taken. If the Pats hadn’t taken Mac, it’s very likely he would have been taken by one of the teams who took Trask or Mond or Mills, so he would have been there into the 3rd round.

In hindsight, the Pars would have been better off taking Mills later than Mac in the mid-first.

 

[upstater1]

I have never seen an article that said it was that Belichick had to accede to the scouts. Belichick had final say over personnel. If Kraft took that away, there would have been far more rumblings about it before now. I cannot see Belichick being stripped of final say on draft picks and just taking it.

And the Meyers story said Belichick took the advice of his scouting staff. It never said he was overruled and didn't have a say in letting Meyers go in favor for JuJu.

It's not that he had final say stripped away more than that he had to give up some of the control over the picks. He would not get his way all the time

If your boss says, you have to give and go with the scouts sometimes. Then you pick your spots.

 

[Rob0729]

It's not that he had final say stripped away more than that he had to give up some of the control over the picks. He would not get his way all the time

If your boss says, you have to give and go with the scouts sometimes. Then you pick your spots.

If he doesn't get his way all the time, that means he is giving up final say. It is one thing to allow scouts have more input and giving up final say. Every move, he had the right to veto or decide what the Pats were going to do. He still had final say. If he didn't believe in his scouts wanted, he could have vetoed it.

 

[upstater1]

If he doesn't get his way all the time, that means he is giving up final say. It is one thing to allow scouts have more input and giving up final say. Every move, he had the right to veto or decide what the Pats were going to do. He still had final say. If he didn't believe in his scouts wanted, he could have vetoed it.

I'm not sure why what I wrote doesn't make sense. If I say to you, you get most of the decisions, but you have to give in sometimes, then you have to pick your spots. It's a matter of how hard the others are pounding on the table.

When it comes to Mac, this is an incredibly delicate decision. The whole football world is telling you he should be picked anywhere from 3 to 12. The Krafts are starving for a QB who will be the face of the franchise. Something about Mac doesn't impress you (his arm, you talked to Saban, who knows?) but you're not sure this guy isn't going to be the next Drew Brees or even Peyton Manning (I happen to think Mac Jones and Manning have similar throwing styles, similar release points, compact motions). So you defer: this is not the spot to put your foot down. Not when everyone else says you are wrong, not when your bosses are desperately starved for a franchise QB.

 

[TommyD4207]

Yes. If like to trade for fields.

....Why?