Belichick: Bad judgement on 4th downs?

[lancerman]

Maybe I'll catch hell for this but whatever. Saw this video on YouTube recently and it was basically the worst Belichick coaching decisions.



Now we can debate them all day, however the biggest trend I've noticed is that a lot of them tend to be deciding to go for it on fourth down. Especially in field goal range. Among them:

-going for it against the Broncos in the 2015 AFCCG on 4th and 1 with 6 minutes trailing by 8. Called a play action against Denver's pass rush and Brady had no time to turn with a defender in his face and had to throw it away. Could have just kicked a field goal here.

-SAME GAME. With 2 minutes left going for it against the Broncos around the 20 on a 4th and 6. Failed to convert. Easily could have kicked a field goal here.

(worth nothing in the last two we likely win the game if kick a field goal on either of those drives since we rallied at the end to get a TD but missed the two pointer we needed to tie. We literally could have just kicked 3 field goals and won).

-Trailing 7 to 3 in the last minute of the first half in the 2010 playoff game against the Jets. Belichick tried a fake punt on 4th and 4. Chung bobbled the snap and got stopped. Jets scored a TD on a short field. Ultimately the Jets won by 7.

-Super Bowl 42. Having Brady go for it on 4th and 13 in field goal range. We know how this played out. Patriots lost the game by 3.

-2009. The infamous 4th and 2 call against the Colts.

Just found it interesting to talk about as I noticed a trend here. Especially since in a lot of them it ended up costing the Patriots the exact amount of points they lost the game by.

Others were the stupid drop kick week 13 against the Eagles in 2015, benching Welker for a quarter, playing Welker for a meaningless game he got injured in. Feel free to discuss that too.

 

[IcyPatriot]

The Eagles converting on 4th down helped them earn the victory.

We were 2/3 on 4th down conversions this postseason.
We were 8/13 on 4th down conversions 2017 regular season.

10/16 total on the season = 62.5%
We were 5th in the league for the 2017 season ... not too shabby.

2017 NFL Team Downs Stats - National Football League - ESPN

 

[supafly]

Welker wasn’t benched for a quarter. It was simply a few plays in the first series. He broke the rules and he got benched for a few plays. Big deal. Brady shouldn’t have thrown such a ridiculous pick. Crumpler shouldn’t have dropped an easy TD. Chung shouldn’t have bobbled the ball, and the secondary could’ve been much, much better as opposed to making Sanchez look like Joe Montana.

All of the other decisions are fair game for criticism, but if we’re questioning Belichick’s poor calls, we should also note his brilliant ones. After all, our team has 8 SB appearances and 5 victories during his HC tenure. Some gambles work. Some do not.

I do not blame him for choosing to go for it on either of the DEN drives in ‘15 considering the circumstances and fact that we had only put up 12 points through that period of the game, and I certainly don’t blame him for the 4th and 2 call against Indy. In the Welker injury game, I’m pretty sure the plan was to pull him after one quarter, so that one is somewhat understandable, too.

The drop kick against PHI was terrible, as was the late season management in 2015. I’m going to hold off judgement on the Butler situation in the most recent SB, simply because it’s so bizarre I feel that something important had to happen to force his hand. The choice to pass on the FG attempt in SB42 was certainly a head scratcher.

 

[luuked]

Now we can debate them all day, however the biggest trend I've noticed is that a lot of them tend to be deciding to go for it on fourth down.

And how many fourth down conversions worked out at the same time ? Not every failed fourth down was a bad decision and not every successful fourth down was a good decision. Or in other words just because something ends up being a failure it doesnt mean that it was the wrong decision to make at the time.

Until you actually take the effort to look through all fourth downs in a bigger time frame and try to show that there is even an argument to make for bad calls on fourth down your entire post goes onto hindsight pile.

 

[DarrylS]

It's gonna be a long f..ing offseason, why don't posters focus on many of his great decisions instead of the poor ones???

There are more than a couple of pretty good decisions in this run of 214 wins and 74 losses...maybe if he was really "smart" the Pats record might be 215 wins and 73 losses...

 

[jah]

Chung went rogue on that fake punt.

Wow, I can't believe somehow I never knew about the 2015 drop kick vs PHI...and I watched that game, and the play happened before the game stopped being fun to watch.

 

[primetime]

The 4th down decision making in the Super Bowl was questionable. We discussed this in another thread, but based on the number of points you could reasonably expect from a given choice, they pretty much made the opposite decision from what they should have by kicking on 4th and 1 from inside the 10 (which is, in most game contexts, a bad decision) and going for it on 4th and 5 from the 35.

But such is life.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

So the kick costs NE all of about 10-15 yards of field position. Yawn. And then Philly immediately ends up in 3rd and long, and then the NE defense gives up the first down. But somehow the kick is why NE lost the game. Please. Just please.

There were 73 other reasons that were ahead of that kick in why NE lost that 2015 game.

Also, if the players on the field executed it just a little bit better, NE has possession of the ball in awesome field position and most of the complainers about the kick are raving about what a genius move it was.

 

[Joker]

It's all been bad...real real bad....I never knew these past 17 years

 

[Tunescribe]

Maybe I'll catch hell for this but whatever. Saw this video on YouTube recently and it was basically the worst Belichick coaching decisions.



Now we can debate them all day, however the biggest trend I've noticed is that a lot of them tend to be deciding to go for it on fourth down. Especially in field goal range. Among them:

-going for it against the Broncos in the 2015 AFCCG on 4th and 1 with 6 minutes trailing by 8. Called a play action against Denver's pass rush and Brady had no time to turn with a defender in his face and had to throw it away. Could have just kicked a field goal here.

-SAME GAME. With 2 minutes left going for it against the Broncos around the 20 on a 4th and 6. Failed to convert. Easily could have kicked a field goal here.

(worth nothing in the last two we likely win the game if kick a field goal on either of those drives since we rallied at the end to get a TD but missed the two pointer we needed to tie. We literally could have just kicked 3 field goals and won).

-Trailing 7 to 3 in the last minute of the first half in the 2010 playoff game against the Jets. Belichick tried a fake punt on 4th and 4. Chung bobbled the snap and got stopped. Jets scored a TD on a short field. Ultimately the Jets won by 7.

-Super Bowl 42. Having Brady go for it on 4th and 13 in field goal range. We know how this played out. Patriots lost the game by 3.

-2009. The infamous 4th and 2 call against the Colts.

Just found it interesting to talk about as I noticed a trend here. Especially since in a lot of them it ended up costing the Patriots the exact amount of points they lost the game by.

Others were the stupid drop kick week 13 against the Eagles in 2015, benching Welker for a quarter, playing Welker for a meaningless game he got injured in. Feel free to discuss that too.

Oh, that damn BB! You don't know enough about the reasoning behind some of these decisions -- foremost the Butler benching -- to offer judgment. Perhaps you'd have better luck compiling all-time bad decision lists for Abraham Lincoln, Mother Theresa and Thomas Edison.

 

[Ivan]

It's all been bad...real real bad....I never knew these past 17 years

Yep

Al this time I was suffering from the delusion that Belichick had turned the Patriots into the best franchise in football, only to find out they have only been to 8 Super Bowls and only won 5 Lombardi’s during his tenure. How did I not see the failure he had turned them into. Now I fully understand all the crying and whining that’s been going on.

 

[Ivan]

Oh, that damn BB! You don't know enough about the reasoning behind some of these decisions -- foremost the Butler benching -- to offer judgment. Perhaps you'd have better luck compiling all-time bad decision lists for Abraham Lincoln, Mother Theresa and Thomas Edison.

Don’t forget the Dalai Lama, even though he’s a Patriot fan he also allowed the Chinese government to seize control of Tibet, when he could have had the dozens in the Tibetan military step up against them to keep it from happening. Talk about a screw up.

 

[Froob]

So...basically it’s a bad decision when he doesn’t make it? Pederson is a huge bone head if the Philly special fails.

 

[luuked]

The drop kick against PHI was terrible, as was the late season management in 2015.

I will never in my life understand why people remember the dropkick against the Eagles as some awful decision when it was ultimately meaningless except for giving away 10-15 yards to the Eagles. If people want to hang BB for a decision in this game then you dont have to look farther than how they totally screwed up the time management at the end of the first half. This basic mistake resulted in a blocked punt that was returned for a TD 15 seconds before halftime.

THAT was terrible situational football and coaching. The dropkick is just another shiny object that people get distracted by.

 

[captain stone]

Maybe I'll catch hell for this but whatever. Saw this video on YouTube recently and it was basically the worst Belichick coaching decisions.



Now we can debate them all day, however the biggest trend I've noticed is that a lot of them tend to be deciding to go for it on fourth down. Especially in field goal range. Among them:

-going for it against the Broncos in the 2015 AFCCG on 4th and 1 with 6 minutes trailing by 8. Called a play action against Denver's pass rush and Brady had no time to turn with a defender in his face and had to throw it away. Could have just kicked a field goal here.

-SAME GAME. With 2 minutes left going for it against the Broncos around the 20 on a 4th and 6. Failed to convert. Easily could have kicked a field goal here.

(worth nothing in the last two we likely win the game if kick a field goal on either of those drives since we rallied at the end to get a TD but missed the two pointer we needed to tie. We literally could have just kicked 3 field goals and won).

-Trailing 7 to 3 in the last minute of the first half in the 2010 playoff game against the Jets. Belichick tried a fake punt on 4th and 4. Chung bobbled the snap and got stopped. Jets scored a TD on a short field. Ultimately the Jets won by 7.

-Super Bowl 42. Having Brady go for it on 4th and 13 in field goal range. We know how this played out. Patriots lost the game by 3.

-2009. The infamous 4th and 2 call against the Colts.

Just found it interesting to talk about as I noticed a trend here. Especially since in a lot of them it ended up costing the Patriots the exact amount of points they lost the game by.

Others were the stupid drop kick week 13 against the Eagles in 2015, benching Welker for a quarter, playing Welker for a meaningless game he got injured in. Feel free to discuss that too.

Never mind 4th down, it was Bill's (& Skippy's) decisions on 3rd down in the first half that doomed them to spend the rest of the game playing catch-up.

 

[Patstopia]

I hope BB is reading all this so he can learn from all the hindsight that everyone is bestowing on him. If only we had a coach as smart as them.

 

[lancerman]

Oh god, I should have known how triggered and fragile everyone would act over this. God we have a million threads talking about how great he is, one thread discussing his missteps is just one too many for some.

 

[luuked]

Oh god, I should have known how triggered and fragile everyone would act over this. God we have a million threads talking about how great he is, one thread discussing his missteps is just one too many for some.

No it is mostly because your post was anectodal, hindsight based garbage. Make a valid argument and you can have all the discussion you want.

 

[supafly]

I will never in my life understand why people remember the dropkick against the Eagles as some awful decision when it was ultimately meaningless except for giving away 10-15 yards to the Eagles. If people want to hang BB for a decision in this game then you dont have to look farther than how they totally screwed up the time management at the end of the first half. This basic mistake resulted in a blocked punt that was returned for a TD 15 seconds before halftime.

THAT was terrible situational football and coaching. The dropkick is just another shiny object that people get distracted by.

Everything seemed to go downhill after that bizarre decision and the Eagles players seemed to take offense to the fact that Belichick was running trick plays up 14-3 or whatever it was. It changed the entire momentum of the game and fired up their sidelines.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Anyone seen Burkhead or is he still kidnapped? LMAO

it's funny what people fixate on

McDaniels is overrated and gets caught over-analyzing.

Been going on for years and years...