Bedard: There was second guessing about Mayo over summer and him getting a second year isn't guaranteed

[Thelonious]

Everything in life is a collaboration. No man is an island and all that.

When collaboration is a gambit to evade individual responsibility, claims of collaboration are a lie. We have all, I think, been forced to "collaborate" with fools at work or otherwise, and know it to be a waste of time. The work of a manager is to define expectations for those under him and to hold them - individually - to those expectations. It is not to dither endlessly and contradictorily nor to spew asinine platitudes more relevant to puppies in a box or toddlers on the playground than to men at work.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

It's so hard to tell on coaches without talent

2 of the top 3 run defenders were Bentley and Barmore with Peppers not far down the list. The best pass rusher last year was Barmore, 49 pressures, 34 hurries, 5 batted balls. He had 8.5 sacks and Wise was next at 4.5. They cannot get to the QB at all without blitzing.

The talent has been drained from last year due to injury and the Peppers thing, but Barmore was the one star level player that made difference making plays in the front 7. For BB to say he had the same guys and were 6th in run defense is an absolute joke, he had 3 of the better run defenders playing.

As to the locker room vibe mentioned, they are losing bad, I'm sure most teams losing bad have a bad vibe in the locker room, that's all overstated IMO.

Greatest coach of all-time had a terrible record last year, Why? Lack of SKILL AND TALENT.

Problem with Mayo is he has no track record and people like to obsess about non-football stuff which is generally overblown. Add to that he likes to be more open than BB ever was and people can't wait to destroy him for whatever he says.

The offense is actually starting to play half decently since they got a QB but are limited by Line and receiver AKA SKILL AND TALENT.
I watched the defensive tape a bit this week, they don't have guys that can fill the Bentley position or the Barmore position so have to play guys where they are not suited. Again: SKILL AND TALENT.

I have no idea if Covington or Mayo are bad coaches or not and agree early returns are not good. I do know first year coaches almost always struggle badly, Texans an outlier. They lack TALENT AND SKILL and until they have some not sure I can definitively judge the coaching.

Look at Kyle Shanahan 2017 and 2018 record. Everyone here would have fired him.

You are full of excuses.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

You can't put yourself in a situation to be successful. Technically not taking a job you aren't qualified to do may count, but it's mainly the people that did your hiring that is responsible for putting you in a position to succeed or suck. You have no control over what they have in their plans or have in place already (players mainly or lack of). I think he was dealt a ****ty hand and is a huge **** sandwich they're all going to have to take a bite. Well except BK, he will be exonerated by his new documentary, due out on Netflix, 2 years after Mayo leaves.

We are making the same point. Young coaches accept positions where they are destined to fail due to factors beyond their control. Throw in the learning curve associated with a first time HC position and things go south rather quickly.

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

Everything in life is a collaboration. No man is an island and all that.

There is no effective collaboration without strong leadership.

Strong leaders find ways to overcome dysfunction. They realize the limits of what they can accomplish & set reasonable goals, they recognize talent, they lead by example, they back their people in front of outsiders, they communicate well, they make plans and get everyone onboard, they encourage all when things go wrong and remind them of the big picture, and they gain respect. They push their players to reach their full potential. They demand accountability and excellence, especially in themselves. They seek out people who are committed to the team and winning. They don't need to be "set up" for this. They don't need training wheels. None of that describes Mayo.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

The offense is actually improving

If I remember correctly the offense had 22 yards rushing and scored 16 points. That is not an improvement.

 

[upstater1]

I really hate to say this but this all looks similarly to the FattMatt and Dipshit hiring by BB. Not being hired on credentials/merit, other than being a great player, meh “exec”…?

Belichick, who has an infinite amount of football knowledge, had a great deal of respect for Patricia's football knowledge and coaching. He was wrong about how it would work.

But this is an entirely different comparison. You're talking about an expert hiring someone he deemed an expert. This here is an amateur hiring someone who is also apparently an amateur.

These are two different things.

 

[Thelonious]

The lesson to be drawn here, and it is a lesson with broader application than to a football team, is that you do not do anyone a favor when you hire him to do a job he cannot do. The inevitable failure damages the man you hired as much as it damages your enterprise, or your society.

 

[upstater1]

Not enough in this thread has been said about the advertisement to the NFL coaching community IF Mayo is fired at the end of the season.

They will look at the Krafts as the people who fired a young coach after one year.
They will also see that this guy had trouble with Bill Parcells, Pete Carroll and Bill Belichick.

No good coach is going to want to come here.

We will get retreads who failed elsewhere and who are NOT in line for other jobs.

 

[Brotherblues]

I think it can work, but Mayo's not delegating. Wolf is delegating the offense to AVP around Mayo. And Mayo has to be the public face of it.

With regard to the Defense, Covington needs help. No team should be able to run 17 times in a row and succeed against us. There are many approaches. Covington doesn't seem at all ready? Why are we running a 10-year old base Defense instead of a 5-6 DB base? What influence does Mayo have on the Defense. If he can't help the Defense, he truly is a figurehead, and a poor one at that.

On offense he only pokes his head in, but he does gameplan the defense along with Covington. That's why he gets more heated when talking about performance on that side. Because the Xs and Os on defense are his, it's personal for him. He goes out of his way to repeatedly say there's no issue with the Xs and Os on defense while throwing the players under the bus.

 

[Thelonious]

Not enough in this thread has been said about the advertisement to the NFL coaching community IF Mayo is fired at the end of the season.

They will look at the Krafts as the people who fired a young coach after one year.
They will also see that this guy had trouble with Bill Parcells, Pete Carroll and Bill Belichick.

No good coach is going to want to come here.

We will get retreads who failed elsewhere and who are NOT in line for other jobs.

Too bad. The Krafts have put themselves into a position where this is a price they must now pay, because their asinine dereliction in implementing an irresponsible hiring process with the inevitable lousy hires has left us no option other than staring over. Would you have them retain incompetent leadership so that prospective hires would be comforted by what damned nice people they are? I would think a man worthy of hiring would prefer to hire on with an organization more appreciative of ability and more purposeful than that, an organization more committed to success than to sweetness and light or to charming travel companions.

 

[sportnik]

Not enough in this thread has been said about the advertisement to the NFL coaching community IF Mayo is fired at the end of the season.

They will look at the Krafts as the people who fired a young coach after one year.
They will also see that this guy had trouble with Bill Parcells, Pete Carroll and Bill Belichick.

No good coach is going to want to come here.

We will get retreads who failed elsewhere and who are NOT in line for other jobs.

Couldn't disagree more. If the Pats fire Mayo, the HC role will be seen as the most attractive opportunity in the league. No one is going to pass on an opportunity that features Drake Maye & the number 1 pick in the draft. Plus, anyone that knows anything about football will understand that Mayo was a complete disaster & had to be let go.

Alternatively, if the plan is to just fire the coordinators, there isn't a single coach in the league that would take a job under an incompetent backstabbing airhead "CEO" coach.

 

[Ross12]

Couldn't disagree more. If the Pats fire Mayo, the HC role will be seen as the most attractive opportunity in the league. No one is going to pass on an opportunity that features Drake Maye & the number 1 pick in the draft. Plus, anyone that knows anything about football will understand that Mayo was a complete disaster & had to be let go.

Alternatively, if the plan is to just fire the coordinators, there isn't a single coach in the league that would take a job under an incompetent backstabbing airhead "CEO" coach.

Not just that.

Drake Maye, potentially the top pick in a draft where you don't need a QB and can trade down with a team who DOES need a QB, and ALSO the most cap space in the entire league. Sure, the roster isn't awesome right now, but a good coach will have some pull to get guys to want to come play here and will get assurances from Wolf/ownership that they will be spending. A trade down in the draft will also net opportunities for potentially multiple rookie starters. Additionally, the defensive side of the roster is pretty solid when everyone is healthy and if that (I assume) offensive-minded coach hires a good DC they will be able to hit the ground running on that side of the ball.

 

[Steve102]

Not just that.

Drake Maye, potentially the top pick in a draft where you don't need a QB and can trade down with a team who DOES need a QB, and ALSO the most cap space in the entire league. Sure, the roster isn't awesome right now, but a good coach will have some pull to get guys to want to come play here and will get assurances from Wolf/ownership that they will be spending. A trade down in the draft will also net opportunities for potentially multiple rookie starters. Additionally, the defensive side of the roster is pretty solid when everyone is healthy and if that (I assume) offensive-minded coach hires a good DC they will be able to hit the ground running on that side of the ball.

Yeah, I am on the side that this is a desirable job for the reasons you and @sportnik outline.

 

[Love The Drake]

Not just that.

Drake Maye, potentially the top pick in a draft where you don't need a QB and can trade down with a team who DOES need a QB, and ALSO the most cap space in the entire league. Sure, the roster isn't awesome right now, but a good coach will have some pull to get guys to want to come play here and will get assurances from Wolf/ownership that they will be spending. A trade down in the draft will also net opportunities for potentially multiple rookie starters. Additionally, the defensive side of the roster is pretty solid when everyone is healthy and if that (I assume) offensive-minded coach hires a good DC they will be able to hit the ground running on that side of the ball.

I think at best we are picking top 5 my guess Carolina is going to the the number 1 pick.
A trade down for multiple weapons sign a Tee Higgins or trade for a DK Metcalf changes a lot. I think Ben Brown can stick but we need new tackles new tight ends Henry and Hooper are not blockers.

Stevenson is worrying be between Injuries, fumbles and inconsistency I dont love the coin we have invested.

We don’t know what we have with Cole Strange.
Wolf should lock up Slye prior to end of season.

Springer should be retained and his assistants but that’s it from the coaching staff.

 

[mike_usagisan]

Yeah, I am on the side that this is a desirable job for the reasons you and @sportnik outline.

I think it depends. Who does the HC answer to? Do they answer to Wolf? Does Wolf answer to them? Do they answer to Kraft? How involved will Kraft be?

Most of the serious names in coaching want to name their own GM and have the GM answer to them. If Kraft wants to keep Wolf, and keep his checks and balances of Wolf answering to Kraft, this position is going to become a lot less desirable.

 

[Love The Drake]

O

I think it depends. Who does the HC answer to? Do they answer to Wolf? Does Wolf answer to them? Do they answer to Kraft? How involved will Kraft be?

Most of the serious names in coaching want to name their own GM and have the GM answer to them. If Kraft wants to keep Wolf, and keep his checks and balances of Wolf answering to Kraft, this position is going to become a lot less desirable.

Wolf could nab Stefanski. Stenavich, or I’ll say it Josh Mcdaniels.
Say what you want about Josh but did Belichick ever beat him head to head?

 

[mike_usagisan]

O

Wolf could nab Stefanski. Stenavich, or I’ll say it Josh Mcdaniels.
Say what you want about Josh but did Belichick ever beat him head to head?

Is Kraft going to let Wolf pick? Is Josh waiting to see what happens to Bill next season?

 

[Love The Drake]

Is Kraft going to let Wolf pick? Is Josh waiting to see what happens to Bill next season?

I wouldn’t hate Mcdaniels, Daboll, to coach Maye.

 

[upstater1]

Couldn't disagree more. If the Pats fire Mayo, the HC role will be seen as the most attractive opportunity in the league. No one is going to pass on an opportunity that features Drake Maye & the number 1 pick in the draft. Plus, anyone that knows anything about football will understand that Mayo was a complete disaster & had to be let go.

Alternatively, if the plan is to just fire the coordinators, there isn't a single coach in the league that would take a job under an incompetent backstabbing airhead "CEO" coach.

We would all like to think so and yet they couldn't get Nick Caley or Kliff Kingsbury to come here despite offering them more money than where they went.

Plenty of coaches turned down Jerry Jones and Mark Davis in the recent past. And those places are set up to win

 

[upstater1]

Too bad. The Krafts have put themselves into a position where this is a price they must now pay, because their asinine dereliction in implementing an irresponsible hiring process with the inevitable lousy hires has left us no option other than staring over. Would you have them retain incompetent leadership so that prospective hires would be comforted by what damned nice people they are? I would think a man worthy of hiring would prefer to hire on with an organization more appreciative of ability and more purposeful than that, an organization more committed to success than to sweetness and light or to charming travel companions.

I think you're missing the point.

It's not that they would be appreciative of an ability to analyze good coaching. It's the reverse of that. They have evidence that the Krafts are incapable of understanding what good coaching is.

So when you come here and you need the patience to build something cohesive and coherent, you have almost no rope to do it.

So why would you?