BB THE GOAT

[All3Phases]

Didn’t sidestep anything. Belichick is the GOAT, it is not debatable. Arguing he isn’t perfect doesn’t change the fact he is the best ever. There are actually results of the games he coached that prove it.

You very much sidestepped it. I didn’t say he needed to be perfect, I asked why there is a massive drop off in his resume with and without Brady? If the qb isn’t more important than anybody else, how can you explain it? You won’t and you’ll just avoid the topic

You are right about one thing, he proved he was a great coach when Brady was on his roster, for sure

 

[Ring 6]

You very much sidestepped it. I didn’t say he needed to be perfect, I asked why there is a massive drop off in his resume with and without Brady? If the qb isn’t more important than anybody else, how can you explain it? You won’t and you’ll just avoid the topic

You are right about one thing, he proved he was a great coach when Brady was on his roster, for sure

All of those years are part of his career. They all count. And counting all of them he is greatest ever. My opinion, your opinion, or anyone’s opinion about WHY is irrelevant to the fact that he is the greatest ever.

 

[crawhammer]

You listed coaches who have never won a playoff game.

Brady and belichick won 6 SBs together. There is absolutely no way to replace one of them, much less many other players or coaches, and say they would have won. There are too many variables and too many interconnected things. Championships are earned and won, not hypothesized.

Brady won a Super Bowl in his first season with a new head coach who many people considered a goof.

I recall speculation that their respective approaches to offense wouldn't gel. Arians no risk it no biscuit wouldn't work with Brady.

They had a top ranked passing offense while leading the NFL in intended air yards and intended air yards per pass attempt. It worked. They won the Super Bowl together.

Brady's the greatest quarterback of all time and he laps second place. He would have won multiple Super Bowls with many other head coaches. Maybe not 6 but multiple.

 

[All3Phases]

All of those years are part of his career. They all count. And counting all of them he is greatest ever. My opinion, your opinion, or anyone’s opinion about WHY is irrelevant to the fact that he is the greatest ever.

It’s irrelevant to you because you shy away from criticism. Nobody is discounting anything he’s done with Brady, I’m asking you why there’s such a steep drop off once the qb is not in the picture. You don’t think the qb is nearly as important as me, clearly…so explain

 

[RobertWeathers]

Brady and Reid. Two brilliant offensive minds. Brady also would have cleaned up some of Reid's clock management issues.

Really? He had a few in TB last year and the year before. Clock mgt/getting plays in is a coordinated operation. A QB does not solve it on his own.

Reid accomplished a lot with McNabb who overall was a good quarterback who had a tier 1 QB stretch from 2000-2004.

McNabb was never a tier 1 QB.

Look at what Reid is doing with Mahomes, the best quarterback of his generation.

Belichick and Reid are both great head coaches. Belichick is 3-0 against Reid in the postseason which is a huge legacy advantage. So Belichick ranks higher for now (which doubtfully will change) but I can't think of two seasons that Reid ****ed up as badly as Belichick in 2015 and 2017.

Belichick did not **** up in 2015 and 2017 and if you respond you know exactly what i'm going to say so let it go.

Reid had major choke jobs in Philly. Hes improved as a coach.

 

[Ring 6]

Brady won a Super Bowl in his first season with a new head coach who many people considered a goof.

I recall speculation that their respective approaches to offense wouldn't gel. Arians no risk it no biscuit wouldn't work with Brady.

They had a top ranked passing offense while leading the NFL in intended air yards and intended air yards per pass attempt. It worked. They won the Super Bowl together.

Brady's the greatest quarterback of all time and he laps second place. He would have won multiple Super Bowls with many other head coaches. Maybe not 6 but multiple.

You do not know that. He didn’t win them himself. He himself says he would never have accomplished what he did without Belichick.

You are crediting coaches who have never won a playoff game as being able to win SBs with Tom Brady and nothing else. It’s the height of ignorance.

 

[Ring 6]

It’s irrelevant to you because you shy away from criticism. Nobody is discounting anything he’s done with Brady, I’m asking you why there’s such a steep drop off once the qb is not in the picture. You don’t think the qb is nearly as important as me, clearly…so explain

It’s irrelevant because it’s irrelevant.
You said Andy Reid is a better coach. Andy Reid has not come close to achieving what Belichick has.
Their actual real life coaching results are what they are judged on. It isn’t even close.

 

[All3Phases]

It’s irrelevant because it’s irrelevant.
You said Andy Reid is a better coach. Andy Reid has not come close to achieving what Belichick has.
Their actual real life coaching results are what they are judged on. It isn’t even close.

Why can’t you answer my question? It’s not hard, again…why the steep decline? His 10 year sample is an actual coaching result.

Reid wasn’t fortunate enough to have his generational qb fall into his lap in his 40s rather than his 60s

 

[Ring 6]

Why can’t you answer my question? It’s not hard, again…why the steep decline? His 10 year sample is an actual coaching result.

Reid wasn’t fortunate enough to have his generational qb fall into his lap in his 40s rather than his 60s

Your question is irrelevant. And the answer to it would be voluminous because there are thousands of factors that do into the success of a football team.
We are comparing the careers of coaches in their total. Opinions on why any of their results happen do not change what the results are.

 

[All3Phases]

Your question is irrelevant. And the answer to it would be voluminous because there are thousands of factors that do into the success of a football team.

Thousands of factors changed from year to year from 2001-2019. Somehow they mostly came out of each year wildly successful. With 2 common denominators, Brady and belichick

We are comparing the careers of coaches in their total. Opinions on why any of their results happen do not change what the results are.

You are, I’m asking you a question and you can’t answer it

 

[Ring 6]

Thousands of factors changed from year to year from 2001-2019. Somehow they mostly came out of each year wildly successful. With 2 common denominators, Brady and belichick

You are, I’m asking you a question and you can’t answer it

The answer is not relevant to the topic, which is Belichick is the greatest of all time NFL HC

Discussing the differences or similarities between his 28 seasons that make up that GOAT career is an entirely different topic that would be a separate conversation.

 

[All3Phases]

The answer is not relevant to the topic, which is Belichick is the greatest of all time NFL HC

Discussing the differences or similarities between his 28 seasons that make up that GOAT career is an entirely different topic that would be a separate conversation.

You’re working very hard to avoid the question, I almost admire it

 

[Guts]

This is a good jumping off point for the circular nature of these king of arguments.
The team won so therefore the Qb was good and therefore they won because of the Qb.
You hit some obvious examples in here. Stafford. For 11 of his 12 years in the NFL he couldn’t win a playoff game. Then in one year his team wins a SB and he is proof that it’s all about the QB and you can’t win without an elite QB.
Wilson. He won 1 SB with the best defense in the NFL and one of the top running games. Despite the defense remaining elite for 3 more years he never won again. Without the best other 52 in the league surrounding him he has won 3 playoff games in 8 years. Just to scale that, there have been 92 playoff wins. 92/32 teams means the average team wins 2.875 playoff games. Your example of proof that you need an elite QB to win SBs has been average in winning playoff games for the last 8 years.
Flacco. Do you really think Joe Flacco suddenly became an elite QB for a month then went back to average or worse for the rest of his career? Or was he just a piece of a team that dominated. And if that did happen, you are only proving that any QB can pretend to be elite even though they aren’t, therefore proving you don’t need an elite QB. Sane with Foles.
Early Brady, old Peyton and lifetime Eli were not dominating focal points of their teams. Brady won 3 of his 6 here when he was a cog in the machine and Peyton won half of his SBs when he was a liability. Peyton is actually a good argument AGAINST “it’s all about thf QB” because they built and entire organization around giving him weapons and playing defense from ahead and he consistently choked. Indy built the epitome of the “it’s all about the Qb” team and won 1 SB in 13 years.

Football is a team game. Teams with good players and good coaches win. Teams with poor talent or bad coaching don’t.
You can take the “you can only win with an elite qb” argument, which requires changing only to mostly and changing elite to “or won who wins” argument and apply it to coaches, apply it to defenses, OLs, DL, secondary, etc and you will find teams win with good players and strengths in all areas are equally important.
Yes, the NFL has changed the rules to accentuate passing and scoring. What this has done is make QB stat accumulation easy and create the idea that decent QBs are elite because of stats.
The 2021 Rams didn’t win because of an elite Qb. They won because the gave an average QB who never was good enough to elevate a team to winners, the best weapons, excellent offensive coaching and a dominating defense.
The quality of the other 52 players and coaches elevates the play and reputation of the QB, to create a circular argument that the that was good enough to win, only was because of the QB. And the ease of stat accumulation at the QB position means that any decent QB that you put on a good, well coached team, is suddenly elite because they won and put up stats. It’s impossible for a QB on a good winning team in today nfl to not pit up stats that dwarf historic QB stats from before the fantasy football, can’t touch the QB, can’t defend receivers, let’s make every game 50-49 rule changes.

 

[Ring 6]

You’re working very hard to avoid the question, I almost admire it

Your approach here is what ruins threads on this site. I will repeat; your question is irrelevant to the topic. If you wish to start a new thread about the differences between the best and worst years of the GOATS coaching career, you can do so. I may choose to participate. If you want to keep derailing the thread to that, I won’t be responding.

Pertinent to this discussion would be how you perceive:
2 SB wins, 4 conf championships, 22 playoff wins, and a .641 win %
Is better than
6 SB wins, 8 conf championships, 31 playoff wins and a .662 win %

 

[Ring 6]

Yeah gfy then

 

[Guts]

Yeah gfy then

Lol don't be mad pal
just having fun besides no need to have a back and forth with you neither of us will budge in our opinion on the coach vs QB importance

 

[All3Phases]

Your approach here is what ruins threads on this site. I will repeat; your question is irrelevant to the topic. If you wish to start a new thread about the differences between the best and worst years of the GOATS coaching career, you can do so. I may choose to participate. If you want to keep derailing the thread to that, I won’t be responding.

Pertinent to this discussion would be how you perceive:
2 SB wins, 4 conf championships, 22 playoff wins, and a .641 win %
Is better than
6 SB wins, 8 conf championships, 31 playoff wins and a .662 win %

That’s a resume, is a resume the only thing that goes into making somebody the best? It certainly is relevant to the topic, it’s a counter argument to you calling him the GOAT coach. You just refuse to acknowledge it. You’d rather have 30 pages of people posting “Bb is the GOAT” and have the thread end. Not how discussion works, I haven’t derailed anything.

 

[Ring 6]

That’s a resume, is a resume the only thing that goes into making somebody the best? It certainly is relevant to the topic, it’s a counter argument to you calling him the GOAT coach. You just refuse to acknowledge it. You’d rather have 30 pages of people posting “Bb is the GOAT” and have the thread end. Not how discussion works, I haven’t derailed anything.

It’s not a “resume” it’s the result of his coaching.
The sole purpose of coaching is to win. Who did it best is blatantly obvious by the record they produce. There is no counter argument. Winning is the argument, beginning middle and end.
It isn’t necessary for there to be 30 pages to acknowledge that.

 

[All3Phases]

It’s not a “resume” it’s the result of his coaching.
The sole purpose of coaching is to win. Who did it best is blatantly obvious by the record they produce. There is no counter argument. Winning is the argument, beginning middle and end.
It isn’t necessary for there to be 30 pages to acknowledge that.

Then why are you still here? You aren’t here for a discussion clearly

Here let’s use your logic, results based and no analysis. Belichick is currently not a top 15 coach in the league, correct? Based on results. You must agree

 

[Ring 6]

Then why are you still here? You aren’t here for a discussion clearly

Here let’s use your logic, results based and no analysis. Belichick is currently not a top 15 coach in the league, correct? Based on results

There is a discussion happening. The fact that one side is ignorant and misguided doesn’t change that it’s happening.

Based on results, which is the only yardstick, belichick is the greatest coach ever. If you want to debate Lombardi, Brown, Walsh due to era or longevity, it’s a reasonable discussion. Saying Andy Reid is a better coach than Bill Belichick is so stupid that it’s clear you aren’t serious and are just wasting people’s time.